Sperg about comic books here

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ArthuriusMartyrius said:
Wonder Woman has been completely bastardized by every other comic book writer since William Moulton Marston just writing her as a superstrong blade-swinging Amazon brute (something that's about as far from WW's original conception as a tranny is from an actual woman). As far as I am concerned, moment you have Wonder Woman brandish a sword you done fucked up. Unfortunately that's also the version that stuck, thanks to George Perez.
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The issue with Wonder Woman is that everyone wants to revamp her, rather than just putting the Marston fetish shit away. They make Etta Candy a strong butch black dyke or a raging lesbian rather than another sort of person that Diana can't understand. They make Steve Trevor a love interest when from what I got he was more of a platonic friend who was an excuse

The basic idea is a kind of reversal of Adam Strange. Guy crash lands in a hostile territory and is saved by a Princess who wants to know about the outside world. Her villains kind of suck, but Doctor Psycho. Silver Swan, Cheetah, Blue Snowman, and Doctor Poison feel like they basically can be saved. I'd honestly bring back the weird counter princesses that hate Diana for no real reason as gag villains.

I had a idea for a reboot Wonder Woman. The whole thing would be based upon The Amazons are actually a prison island due to Hippolyta killing Antiope and Theseus when Theseus kidnapped her and Poseidon finally got revenge on Ares for winning that rape trial. Entire twist of the run would be that the person saying he's Ares is actually Deimos trying to usurp power because the actual Ares doesn't want to kill Zeus. Fake Ares would actually cause a domino effect of Diana leaving the island like the plot of a JRPG.

jspit2.0 said:
The problem is there were two wonder woman. The one DC wanted and the one Marston wrote with his hand down his pants. Those Marston comics are not necessarily the girl comic that the conceit, little girl dreams of a big new world.

Lynda Carter's version of the character wasn't that. All George did was take Marston's horrifically kinky, sexualized fantasy and strip of all its edgy bits.

Which, say what you will, was probably the best Wondy comics since the early days of Sensation. Seriously. Which run from Sensation to WW 1992 are you holding it up to? Because those 24 issues he actually was invested in were really good. Perfect no. Hell, I don't even like Marston's half of the Wondy conceit. But I feel the same way about Siegal and Schuster Supes. They may have created the general idea, but others made it work better.

As for comic runs, what have you read?

Messner Loeb got stuck on the book for several years and delivered one hell of a good story his last year on the book deconstructing George Perez's take pretty savagely. It's fine if you can stand 90s art. Then John Byrne took his shot and its okay. I like it more than others.

Rucka/Simone are shit and sat on the character for almost a decade. They basically did what you described. Thor with tits, which sucks. But I also didn't like Morrison's Earth One either.

The magic of a young woman meeting a man for the first time, exploring the world, and growing up are for more interesting then feminism/fetish/stronk stuff. The Wondy movie almost made that happen except for the war crap.
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I'd honestly prefer if Diana isn't in love with Steve Trevor, but is in love in 'Man's World' despite it's flaws. I feel like it'd be hard to do a Wonder Woman run without a girl power angle. I actually enjoy the Greek Gods and the myths. Ares is odd as a villain because the more myths you read about him and it's more obvious that he's very human. He has a lot of myths about him actually being a father and offering fair deals with mortals.
 
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Vyse Inglebard said:
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DAYUM BOI VELMA THICC
@Yaoi Huntress Earth
HOLY FUCKING SHIT YOU WEREN'T KIDDING.
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WHAT THE ACTUAL SHIT THIS IS ONE OF THE BEST THINGS EVER MADE IN RECENT MEMORY
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I'm glad you;re enjoying it Vyse. Though if you wanna check out the rest the hanna barbera beyond series well..they're not as good as this one tbh. Scooby Apocalypse is probably the best of the entire Hanna Barbera beyond line. (The worst being snagglepuss exit stage left)
 
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A Grey Cat said:
I'm glad you;re enjoying it Vyse.
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Up to issue #9 now, and....I'm unironically enjoying it?! Like, the back-and-forth between the gang is great, Scrappy is ridiculous in all the best ways, it's just a great time so far. I think I'll read one more issue, and then I'll retire for tonight.

Edit:
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J.M. DEMATTEIS, KEITH GIFFEN, I LOVE YOU :'(

Double edit:
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Oh, yes, I am ready to SERVE, my queen. Praise dat ass the sun!
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Final edit:
Ofc it was a fake-out dream - but damn if it wan't a good one. That's where I'm gonna end it off for the night. I gotta get some sleep.
 
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PuddIeduck said:
They did some pretty funny Justice League books too!

Their two miniseries (Formerly Known As The Justice League + I Can't Believe It's Not The Justice League) were better than their ongoing, but it's all good.
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J.M. DEMATTEIS is probably best known for spiderman kravens last hunt, and also the Clone saga, so nobody's perfect. But really between this wacky raceland, flintstones beyond ,and the rest of the books in the hanna barbera beyond. I'm surprised it died off. The closest to a spiritual successor we got in recent years is Tom kings looney tunes meets batman...which wasn't played for humor they legit mixed neo noir mellow drama about love triangles, mob hit men, witchcraft and black magic, batman, all with the the looney tunes, and it actually worked.
 
Just found the third Transmetropolitan trade at a used bookstore last night and I'm thrilled to have a reason to go hunting for the rest now. It's one of those things that while I loved the series (lost my original copies to a douchebag ex along with a handful of other trades and graphic novels) it's never really been a priority to go buy them again. After not having read it since probably 2010ish though it's both great to revisit and seems more relevant today than it did when I first read it.

I also found the first volume of Wytches, which is... Okay? From the description I was hoping it would be a little creepier, but the art is pretty cool. The cover reminds me of playing Lunch Money which is another nice nostalgia hit.
 
Not gonna lie, anyone who's read or knows of Mirage TMNT, especially all the "Volume 1" stuff (TMNT volume 1 itself, Tales of the TMNT volume 1, various one-shots like the Micro series or Challenges, anthology books containing stories of them like Turtle Soup and Plastron Cafe) is cool in my book. I'm gonna give thoughts on it all as a retrospective due to an interview I discovered that may have revealed a true, canon ending to them Eastman and Laird thought up decades ago.

I think the Mirage TMNT are something special. It was the indie book that exploded in success yes, but looking at it from an outside view, it really captures everything people loved about comic books then and in general. The turtles' very concept meant they could go from street-level urban crime fighting to the very reaches of the galaxy and back again, and they did. It's also funny in retrospect seeing Eastman handling and loving the gritty street level stuff (if his Bodycount mini and eventual helming of IDW or the revised Last Ronin plots means anything) and Laird the sci-fi and really comic-booky stuff (like Donatello's Microseries issue and all the weird stuff in volumes 2 and 4). Yet somehow it molded together perfectly when they worked together for volume 1. Further, the fact volume 1 had tales and stories in the future showing the turtles shockingly split up on seemingly bad terms - we got to see Raph in exile in a bayou, Don bitterly alone in Japan with an AI for company, a hint of Leo in a city keeping watch on it, no real clue on Mikey - as adults was, and is, pretty unfathomable for franchisable characters... but then it hit me the Mirage versions were never the franchised ones. There's also the fact that they clearly had an ending after all via the original, conceptual Mirage version of The Last Ronin and not the published version.

The original concept document of The Last Ronin that Eastman pulled out for an interview, back in 1987 and when it was fully in continuity, explains where Mikey was and WHY the turtles split up in the canonically published stories we did read - Raph had a spergout and attacked Splinter, left in shame, and Don and Splinter went to Japan for Splinter to die there. Leo and Mikey split up in turn. No clue who the villain in this original version would be, but Eastman confiming the basic plot of the published self-standing Last Ronin was very much the same as the OG '87 idea of the blood feud of Foot and turtles continuing only until death gives us an idea the truce at City of War was to be broken by a Foot anyways. And Eastman specifically confirmed the published ending of Mikey dying but avenging his family and becoming forever young with them in a sort-of Vahalla was completely unchanged since decades ago. And that ending ties wonderfully with a famous phrase Mirage coined from Donatello's solo issue - "Life is at best bittersweet."

In today's world, how often do beloved modern characters get to have bonafide ENDINGS to their story? Much less thematically appropriate ones?
 

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Perez's Wonder Woman basically ditched just about everything Pre-Crisis and rebooted Wonder Woman as a Greek mythology type drama complete with recasting Ares as Diana's chief nemesis.

Then in the 1990s, you had Cheetah demoted to extra and replaced with Circe, who replaced Ares as WW's nemesis and the less said about Rucka's female self-insert Veronica Cale (a literal gender flipped version of Lex Luthor) the better.

Also there was the insane damage done to Wonder Woman by John Byrne, who raped Donna Troy so hard she never fully recovered and who shitted all over the Perez run by creating rip-offs of the Perez supporting cast and making it impossible to get rid of them by making his rip-off of Vanessa, Cassandra Sandsmark, into the new Wonder Girl and getting Peter David to use her (without any editorial restrictions) in Young Justice. And Phil Jimenez further shitting the bed by turning Vanessa into a literal school shooter type, turning her into psycho killer version of Silver Swan who murdered several hundred of Cassie's classmates at school while screeching that it was payback for Cassie "stealing her rightful position to become Wonder Girl" from Vanessa.

Ultimately the problem is that people want Wonder Woman to be dark and edgy and out of the trinity, she's the only one you can do that to.
 
Zaryiu2 said:
So i found these https://dcreadingorder.com/full_reading_order.php and http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/chronology.php?page=chronology (with this helping to explain why certain events are placed where they are http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/chronology.php?page=timetravel)
Any opinions which one is better overall?
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Looks like it depends on how autistic you wanna be with it. [X]ReadingOrder.com seems to organize read orders with respect to publication date and story arc, so that you get uninterrupted stories but not giant jumps in publication times (i.e. no '90s story in between a '60s story despite the '90s story supposed to be happening around those '60s issues), whereas MikesAmazingWorld seems to have little interest in publication date and will gladly put an issue published in 2018 right after an issue published in 1972 due to continuity.
 
Leblanc said:
Of men who I am surprised don't have a thread on here, Dan slott is the biggest one. Seriously it makes me wonder how a man who hates spider man so much has been one of the longest running writers for the web-headView attachment 4311140
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Not enough people on here give a shit about comics, that's why we only have one comics thread.

Having said that, Dan Slott probably could be a lolcow considering some of the dumb shit he's posted online.
 
Slott strikes me as the type who'd probably revel in having a KF thread for him. It'd give him attention and something to focus on, allowing him to go "I'm hated by the right people, these are the types that hate my work!" Besides, he's so boring I doubt anyone would care enough to make a comprehensive thread about him, it'd probably end up just a collection of weak Twitter tantrums (most being repetitive whining about how only man-babies hate modern comics or some such).

As for his seeming dislike of Spider-Man, the guy's growing obviously more bitter over the years as the Spider-Man fandom has rejected him more and more. Likely made all the worse by people initially loving Nick Spencer's run and heralding it as a return to 'good' Spider-Man stories.
 
I'm not particularly fond of Garth Ennis' childish edgelord tendencies, but I have to admit that he is an incredibly talented writer. I particularly appreciate his crime fiction because he often manages to keep his fedorabeard stupidity to a minimum. If you haven't read it yet, Red Team is really good shit about a group of NYPD detectives going rogue and ending up way in over their heads.
 
Leblanc said:
Of men who I am surprised don't have a thread on here, Dan slott is the biggest one. Seriously it makes me wonder how a man who hates spider man so much has been one of the longest running writers for the web-headView attachment 4311140
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Slott basically sold his soul to write Amazing via Brand New Day, where to get his big break he basically championed and spearheaded all of the horrible shit Brevoort, Wacker, and Quesada wanted to do to Spider-Man including get rid of the Spider-Marriage.

Slott, who had spent every waking moment since his first She-Hulk series pandering to fans to get them to get Marvel to make him the writer of Spiderman, thought that the fans would worship him once he got the book, even if Slott was wholesale raping it and then some. Fans basically told Slott he was a sell-out bitch and Slott turned evil and turned evil very much overnight because he was wasn't getting his dick sucked by all of Spider-Man fandom.

Which led to his despising the character, especially since it became apparent the only reason Marvel was willing to let him effectively hijack the character like he did for a decade, was due to no one else wanting to deal with the anti-marriage mandate AND shit on fans who hated it (as seen with Joe Kelly, who was Slott but with a 8/10 body that spent YEARS and wholesale raped Deadpool turning him into Spider-Man lite goody-goody, only to finally get the gig during One More Day only to eventually QUIT after a couple of arcs, due to him not being able to take not being loved unconditionally by fans and who spent most of the Deadpool/Spider-Man ongoing begging forgiveness from Spider-Mans complete with him outright acknowledging One More Day and how it derailed the franchise in a bad way, to try and get fans to take him back, along with Roger Stern, who came back during the Gauntlet, shat on fans who promptly told him to fuck off leading to Stern quitting after a single arc and basically groveling for forgiveness and having Slott kill off Hobgoblin in retaliation for Stern telling Marvel "maybe forcing writers to shit on fans who don't like the current status quo is not a good idea and maybe we should course correct on things like the spider-marriage".)
 
The page that panel is part of is really bad.

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To return to something I posted earlier upthread about the 80s and 90s, it's funny how many internet "cool guys" have this dismissive attitude towards late 80s/90s American comics, especially the "edgy" ones but there's a reason that stuff was huge back when US comics were actually relevant. Instead of realizing "cool shit" is what normal people want from super heroes the industry listened to the types who go "this stuff is just pubertal bravado". So enjoy not making money then, a-holes!

The ball got rolling in the Aughts when you started seeing more cartoony crap like this appearing in Big Two comics
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More recently you've seen more wholesome, soft smol bean bullshit that people think will actually appeal to kids

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People who ironically consume capebooks and the "creatives" who have all helped reduce it to being hecking wacky smol bean bullshit need to fucking go. It's funny how there are manga authors considered generally good at drawing despite any plot criticisms people may have, like Nightow and MHA's creator Horikoshi, who just earnestly love those 80's/90's comics and have taken some influence from them. But then, Japanese creators and others from all over the world developed outside the bubble that Western Reddit-brained people created convincing people that cool stuff is "edgy and cringe" and the saccharine mush they produce is for mature people or will get kids reading comics.
 
Commander X said:
People who ironically consume capebooks and the "creatives" who have all helped reduce it to being hecking wacky smol bean bullshit need to fucking go. It's funny how there are manga authors considered generally good at drawing despite any plot criticisms people may have, like Nightow and MHA's creator Horikoshi, who just earnestly love those 80's/90's comics and have taken some influence from them. But then, Japanese creators and others from all over the world developed outside the bubble that Western Reddit-brained people created convincing people that cool stuff is "edgy and cringe" and the saccharine mush they produce is for mature people or will get kids reading comics.
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For as silly as DC comics were during the Silver Age (particularly Superman under Mort Weisinger), I would take them over many of the capebooks on the market right now.
 
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