Red Letter Media

[sneedem&feedem]

You're not allowed to criticize David Lynch on the Internet. You either pretend to be in love with everything he's ever done, or you incur the wrath of the zealots.

It really is zealotry, huh. Have you seen people try to defend him signing the petition to pardon Roman Polanski? They can't ever just go, "yeah, that wasn't the best decision."

 

[Mola Ram]

Yep, do a top 10 DS9, a top/bottom 10 of VOY. Ent has nothing really to discuss. It's really weird if they do every DS9 season fully per an hour ReView like this, but they've done 2 so I guess they'll waste time/effort on it.

Probably because DS9 can't really be addressed as an episodic show post-season 3 or so. Once the Dominion gets involved, you really have to examine storylines rather than individual episodes. There are certainly standout one-offs ("In the Pale Moonlight" probably counts, but the circumstances that push Sisko to do what he does need the context of the greater war), but as it was the first Trek to really tackle a serialized format, it does make more sense to talk about full seasons in general.

 

[Samuel Fuller]

Dune is essentially unfilmable. It has absurd amounts of backstory and history built into the setting nearly on the level of Lord of the Rings, except it also spends ludicrous amounts of time in different characters' thoughts every chapter (a practice referred to as "head-hopping" and considered a mortal sin in modern genre fiction). If you're going to make a movie out of it, you have to at least try to do something interesting with the material. I think Lynch succeeded at that, even if it's not strictly comprehensible.

It is on-brand in a funny way that the cut of the movie that comes closest to making sense is the one Lynch had his name removed from.

 

[Well Intentioned]

(a practice referred to as "head-hopping" and considered a mortal sin in modern genre fiction)

Head hopping being 'bad' is when it is done in the same scene and has generally been considered an amateur mistake for eons.


Or has that changed? Because if so, jesus christ.

 

[Mola Ram]

Head hopping being 'bad' is when it is done in the same scene and has generally been considered an amateur mistake for eons.


Or has that changed? Because if so, jesus christ.

No, it hasn't changed. But Dune -- one of the titans of science fiction -- does it with shameless regularity, which makes me wonder if it's always been that much of a sin.

 

[Well Intentioned]

No, it hasn't changed. But Dune -- one of the titans of science fiction -- does it with shameless regularity, which makes me wonder if it's always been that much of a sin.

To echo an earlier discussion in this thread, all creative rules can be broken but it takes understanding those rules in order to be able to break them. Sometimes you get something interesting, but usually you get post-modern slop that is wanked over for no reason beyond being 'different.'

Dune uses an omniscient narrator which has fallen out of style, yes, but Herbert doesn't misuse it from what I can recall. It's been way too long since my last read of it.

The issue with POV switching is when it leads to reader confusion or it is a lazy effort being done by the writer to convey details (reactions, thoughts, etc.) that could be shown rather than told.

 

[Mola Ram]

To echo an earlier discussion in this thread, all creative rules can be broken but it takes understanding those rules in order to be able to break them.

Dune uses an omniscient narrator which has fallen out of style, yes, but Herbert doesn't misuse it from what I can recall. It's been way too long since my last read of it.

The issue with POV switching is when it leads to reader confusion or it is a lazy effort being done by the writer to convey details (reactions, thoughts, etc.) that could be shown rather than told.

Makes sense. I tend not to take Zoomer critiques of old school fiction seriously in any event.

 

[Protistology]

Dune uses an omniscient narrator which has fallen out of style, yes, but Herbert doesn't misuse it from what I can recall. It's been way too long since my last read of it.

The Dune books, at least the first four, are all in universe history books. The first book is deliberately written with an unreliable narrator i.e. how the Fremen remember Maud'dib. The second book is what he was actually like.

 

[Andy Soying Out]

it also spends ludicrous amounts of time in different characters' thoughts every chapter (a practice referred to as "head-hopping" and considered a mortal sin in modern genre fiction).

Head hopping being 'bad' is when it is done in the same scene and has generally been considered an amateur mistake for eons.


Or has that changed? Because if so, jesus christ.

No, it hasn't changed. But Dune -- one of the titans of science fiction -- does it with shameless regularity, which makes me wonder if it's always been that much of a sin.

To echo an earlier discussion in this thread, all creative rules can be broken but it takes understanding those rules in order to be able to break them. Sometimes you get something interesting, but usually you get post-modern slop that is wanked over for no reason beyond being 'different.'

Dune uses an omniscient narrator which has fallen out of style, yes, but Herbert doesn't misuse it from what I can recall. It's been way too long since my last read of it.

The issue with POV switching is when it leads to reader confusion or it is a lazy effort being done by the writer to convey details (reactions, thoughts, etc.) that could be shown rather than told.

Fantasy writer Brandon Sanderson talks about this in his Creative Writing lectures and uses Dune as the direct example as an "Omnicient Third Person Narrator" commonly used in older science fiction works, compared to a "Limited Third Person Narrator" that is focused on one character's POV and is closer to a First Person Narrator,:

The year I saw him talk about was this one from 2016 and I can guarantee he uses Dune as the example in this series when talks about POV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4ZDBOc2tX8&list=PLH3mK1NZn9QqOSj3ObrP3xL8tEJQ12-vL

 

[Well Intentioned]

Fantasy writer Brandon Sanderson talks about this in his Creative Writing lectures and uses Dune as the direct example as an "Omniscient Third Person Narrator" commonly used in older science fiction works

So pretty much what I said.

 

[Kether]

You're not allowed to criticize David Lynch on the Internet. You either pretend to be in love with everything he's ever done, or you incur the wrath of the zealots.

, if some other director came out with the type of films Lynch made today, every other kiwifarmer would call him a pedo and half the internet would want him dead. There's a fucking reason his output slowed so much after the 1900s

It reminds me of how John Waters is talked up as a beloved icon instead of being ground zero for tranny worship, tell me honestly that most miggers wouldn't demand a hard drive check on these creeps

 

[I'm a Silly]

after the 1900s

Inclusive!
But seriously, Waters used to tour prisons and in his talks would relate that his films were his crimes, essentially owning up to being beyond transgressive and [in his own way] trying to advise that a creative outlet can save one from trouble.
I know that Lynch signed [one of] the Polanski petition/s, but IDK about Waters.

 

[Mussolini’s Merkin]

Inclusive!
But seriously, Waters used to tour prisons and in his talks would relate that his films were his crimes, essentially owning up to being beyond transgressive and [in his own way] trying to advise that a creative outlet can save one from trouble.
I know that Lynch signed [one of] the Polanski petition/s, but IDK about Waters.

Waters never signed the petition. He might be a fag, but he's the best fag, the only one that should be spared. Incredible director, Serial Mom is insanely underrated.

 

[Zorak Prison Pod]

David Lynch stinks.

We get it, you're idiosyncratic.

He really shows what's, like, beneath 1950's suburbs, MAAAAAAAAN

MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN

Tim Burton did it infinitely better with Edward Scissorhands.

 

[Hentai-Semitism]

He really shows what's, like, beneath 1950's suburbs, MAAAAAAAAN

MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN

Tim Burton did it infinitely better with Edward Scissorhands.

You're replying to your own posts. We get it, you're idiosyncratic.

 

[Mola Ram]

He really shows what's, like, beneath 1950's suburbs, MAAAAAAAAN

MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN

Tim Burton did it infinitely better with Edward Scissorhands.

You haven't actually seen any David Lynch films, we get it.

 

[Cryogonal2]

I think it would be a good Jay/Rich episode for just that reason. Get the perspective for a massive fan and a regular joe. I get the feeling that The Straight Story would be Rich Evans' favorite of the lot.

rich could dress up as jacques renault and jay could dress up as nicolas cage in wild at heart

It really is zealotry, huh. Have you seen people try to defend him signing the petition to pardon Roman Polanski? They can't ever just go, "yeah, that wasn't the best decision."

it really was a stupid thing to do. performative or not, it's still his name in defense of a pedophile rapist. i know that's just the average hollywood filmmaker / actor but it's not an excuse to be all for someone like that.

 

[Protistology]

It gets worse

 

[Gromit the Claymation Dog]

Its ironic how Bashir arguably has the best character development of the entire cast. Especially considering they seriously considered killing him off at multiple points and for a while didn't know how to write him.

When they finally lock in and gave his backstory, it explained so much about his character you'd think they planned it all out. The reality is the half assed it at the last min, but it legit explained everything perfectly.

On this subject, there’s the episode where Bashir is suffering a hallucinogenic coma from an alien poison and when he gets out of it he chops it up to luck since no one else has ever survived, but Garak mentions that Cardassians don’t believe in luck. Seasons later, they bring out Bashir’s backstory and I immediately thought to that moment. Whether they planned that or not, it is just pristine.

 

[Hentai-Semitism]

rich could dress up as jacques renault and jay could dress up as nicolas cage in wild at heart

I think there's something a lot more obvious we can do here.