r/mendrawingwomen - "STOP DRAWING WOMEN THE WAY YOU WANT TO"

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Mildly off-topic, but I saw people posting about sexy male characters and the straight female gaze and thought I'd chime in.

I'm a straight male myself, but I drawfag on the lower-case-i-internet for a hobby and have been mistaken for a woman because of how I draw men. Here's some pointers I've picked up.
-tone is more important than mass. Not that women don't like seeing big muscles, but if it's between a guy being big and a guy being shreaded, draw him shreaded.
-classically handsome face. Your range of pretty-boy-ness is between a kpop twink and Chris Pratt. If you draw a man more masculine in the face than that, you need to make it clear he's from some traditionally masculine profession, like soldier, cop, or lumberjack. Speaking of
-clothes. Give him a fun, stylish outfit that also matches his character. Make sure to show off some of his musculature; exposed biceps, unbuttoned shirt to show the abs, tight clothes that hug the frame, whatever.

Someone mentioned having your guy doing something with his strength. This is true, but it ties more into general figure drawing advice. All your characters should be drawn doing something; even in a standard Sports Illustrated swimsuit pinup, the girl is *inviting* you, the viewer, to *come join her*. If you're drawing guys, just make it *more* obvious that they're doing something, because male doing tends to be more proactive than female doing.
 
RazorBackBacon said:
Mildly off-topic, but I saw people posting about sexy male characters and the straight female gaze and thought I'd chime in.

I'm a straight male myself, but I drawfag on the lower-case-i-internet for a hobby and have been mistaken for a woman because of how I draw men. Here's some pointers I've picked up.
-tone is more important than mass. Not that women don't like seeing big muscles, but if it's between a guy being big and a guy being shreaded, draw him shreaded.
-classically handsome face. Your range of pretty-boy-ness is between a kpop twink and Chris Pratt. If you draw a man more masculine in the face than that, you need to make it clear he's from some traditionally masculine profession, like soldier, cop, or lumberjack. Speaking of
-clothes. Give him a fun, stylish outfit that also matches his character. Make sure to show off some of his musculature; exposed biceps, unbuttoned shirt to show the abs, tight clothes that hug the frame, whatever.

Someone mentioned having your guy doing something with his strength. This is true, but it ties more into general figure drawing advice. All your characters should be drawn doing something; even in a standard Sports Illustrated swimsuit pinup, the girl is *inviting* you, the viewer, to *come join her*. If you're drawing guys, just make it *more* obvious that they're doing something, because male doing tends to be more proactive than female doing.
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Thoughts on the hawkeye initiative and posing men like women? Because these niggas believe that the equivalent to female fanservice is a dude in a thong with the camera panning over his dick and balls. Do you agree with that?
 
Witchtanic Hellucinations said:
Thoughts on the hawkeye initiative and posing men like women? Because these niggas believe that the equivalent to female fanservice is a dude in a thong with the camera panning over his dick and balls. Do you agree with that?
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I'm a straight man, so I am out of the loop on what women find attractive, but I can say with certainty that the "Initiative" was retarded horseshit created as a petty backlash to attractive women in comics. It ignored the rather blatant difference in builds seen with physically fit men and women to try to put men into poses that were quite bluntly humiliating when you reverse genders, because men aren't shaped like women. On the flipside, I've heard that most women prefer men being depicted in action (as attested by @RazorBackBacon) and it shows when you look at them thirsting over Chris Evans for that one Helicopter Scene in Civil War.

So basically the Hawkeye Initiative was a bunch of butthurt feminists putting twinks into ridiculous costumes and poses to pretend that men and women have the same features. The fact that one of the main women involved (Noelle Stevenson) has trooned out should tell you everything you need to know.
 
Witchtanic Hellucinations said:
Thoughts on the hawkeye initiative and posing men like women? Because these niggas believe that the equivalent to female fanservice is a dude in a thong with the camera panning over his dick and balls. Do you agree with that?
Click to expand...
My thoughts are very much what @Flaming Insignias wrote. The Hawkeye Initiative is just a more advanced version of feminization or crossdressing art. Only two groups of people actually enjoy that sort of art: straight women who just think it's funny; and straight men with a humiliation/feminization fetish. Anything else is bitter legbeards posting "Take that, men!" to the interwebs, and pathetic simps trying to get good boy points.
 
RazorBackBacon said:
My thoughts are very much what @Flaming Insignias wrote. The Hawkeye Initiative is just a more advanced version of feminization or crossdressing art. Only two groups of people actually enjoy that sort of art: straight women who just think it's funny; and straight men with a humiliation/feminization fetish. Anything else is bitter legbeards posting "Take that, men!" to the interwebs, and pathetic simps trying to get good boy points.
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As a straight female, I found the parody drawings depicting men in girly clothes and poses to be either mildly amusing or outright disgusting, to the point where I even questioned my own sexuality. Fortunately, that wasn't the case. Simply turned out these artworks and their content lacked authenticity, and I found it to be a major turn-off to be honest. Granted, It did lead me down a path to drawing barely clothed men, so....
 
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Witchtanic Hellucinations said:
Thoughts on the hawkeye initiative and posing men like women? Because these niggas believe that the equivalent to female fanservice is a dude in a thong with the camera panning over his dick and balls. Do you agree with that?
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I do not think the hawkeye initiative is meant to be "female fanservice". They were made to gross men out, to relay the message of "this is what women feel when they see comic book female sexy poses, see how it is ridiculous and unappealing". It works to varying degrees of effectiveness depending on how people interpret the project/issue. I think the main problem lies in comic book artists who rely too much on real life references, as sexy poses should still convey character. Beauty shots that are obviously traced from super model pics makes the characters ooc and weird. And unlike manga the more realistic style and proportions in comics makes it difficult for many people to accept it as a stylistic choice.
 
Glossy Paper said:
I do not think the hawkeye initiative is meant to be "female fanservice". They were made to gross men out, to relay the message of "this is what women feel when they see comic book female sexy poses, see how it is ridiculous and unappealing". It works to varying degrees of effectiveness depending on how people interpret the project/issue. I think the main problem lies in comic book artists who rely too much on real life references, as sexy poses should still convey character. Beauty shots that are obviously traced from super model pics makes the characters ooc and weird. And unlike manga the more realistic style and proportions in comics makes it difficult for many people to accept it as a stylistic choice.
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I took a look at the orginal Tumblr, and it seems like the purpose of it (at least at first) was to make fun of the way certain artists in the 90s-2000s drew women by swapping out the girls with a guy. The idea being that removing the erotic element makes it easier for straight men to look at this stuff objectively and realize how ridiculous and unrealistic it is.

ohgod.jpg

Like this, for example. There's no way anyone, no matter how athletic, could twist their entire spine around 180 degrees like that while delivering a horse kick. It's just an excuse to have boobs and butt on display. Putting Hawkeye in the same pose and removing the other elements just illustrates the point.

Now like most feminist/body positive movements it's since been consumed by nags who just don't like fit, attractive women being depicted in anything, but the original intention was sound.
 
Someone Familiar said:
Is it even possible to design an adult human female character who looks aesthetically pleasing but isn't sexually attractive at all? I can't think of an example other than ones like armored Samus who show 0 skin whatsoever.
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Yes, you can design a woman aged 40 or older.
 
Glossy Paper said:
I do not think the hawkeye initiative is meant to be "female fanservice". They were made to gross men out, to relay the message of "this is what women feel when they see comic book female sexy poses, see how it is ridiculous and unappealing".
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It got condensed into fujo arts pretty fast, as I had been watching one of the blogs at time and it got gay in like 3 seconds and stayed so.
 
Someone Familiar said:
Is it even possible to design an adult human female character who looks aesthetically pleasing but isn't sexually attractive at all? I can't think of an example other than ones like armored Samus who show 0 skin whatsoever.
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It's impossible to design a character that has 0% sex appeal. Even Freddy Kreuger has fangirls. If you mean just a character that isn't normally considered sexy, but still aesthetically pleasing then yes, quite easily. As pointed out, older characters are the easiest. You could have younger characters, if you're willing to just ignore the degenerate Discord mods who'll thirst for her. Pedos gonna pedo, unfortunately.
 
RazorBackBacon said:
It's impossible to design a character that has 0% sex appeal. Even Freddy Kreuger has fangirls. If you mean just a character that isn't normally considered sexy, but still aesthetically pleasing then yes, quite easily. As pointed out, older characters are the easiest. You could have younger characters, if you're willing to just ignore the degenerate Discord mods who'll thirst for her. Pedos gonna pedo, unfortunately.
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The fact that TLOU2's Abby Rule 34 pictures exist, proves that someone out there will find a character to have sex appeal, even if the creator does their hardest to remove sex appeal from the said character.
 
Thiletonomics said:
The fact that TLOU2's Abby Rule 34 pictures exist, proves that someone out there will find a character to have sex appeal, even if the creator does their hardest to remove sex appeal from the said character.
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Abby is such a gone case that fucking Rule 34 does a better job than the actual game she's from.

Edit: I checked again for research (not the meme one, actual research), there's actually a 2 pieces of Rule 34 which look more like the body model they scanned for Abby than the actual in-game Abby.
 
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RazorBackBacon said:
It's impossible to design a character that has 0% sex appeal. Even Freddy Kreuger has fangirls. If you mean just a character that isn't normally considered sexy, but still aesthetically pleasing then yes, quite easily. As pointed out, older characters are the easiest. You could have younger characters, if you're willing to just ignore the degenerate Discord mods who'll thirst for her. Pedos gonna pedo, unfortunately.
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I'm surprised nobody pointed out the current weeb darling, Hitori Gotoh from Bocchi the Rock:
1681644756051.png


Yes, she's only 15 but it's not like age has ever stopped the Japs from sexualizing the crap out of a character. Either way, she's very deliberately designed to be plain-looking. I suppose the "shy awkward girl" is a kink in and of itself for some people, but the only way her design could be any less sexualized to the general public would be if her skirt went down to her ankles. It's telling that 99.99% of the porn of her requires her to be completely out of character.
 
Corn Flakes said:
I'm surprised nobody pointed out the current weeb darling, Hitori Gotoh from Bocchi the Rock:
View attachment 5058502

Yes, she's only 15 but it's not like age has ever stopped the Japs from sexualizing the crap out of a character. Either way, she's very deliberately designed to be plain-looking. I suppose the "shy awkward girl" is a kink in and of itself for some people, but the only way her design could be any less sexualized to the general public would be if her skirt went down to her ankles. It's telling that 99.99% of the porn of her requires her to be completely out of character.
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True, but I'd like to include that the anime downgraded her. She's stacked in the manga.
 
Corn Flakes said:
Yes, she's only 15 but it's not like age has ever stopped the Japs from sexualizing the crap out of a character. Either way, she's very deliberately designed to be plain-looking.
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>pink hair
>charming face
>expressive
>fashionable enough for hair ornaments
>thin
Doesn't seem plain looking to me. I can think of a lot of anime girls that look more plain than her, like half the cast of K-On for instance.
Corn Flakes said:
I suppose the "shy awkward girl" is a kink in and of itself for some people, but the only way her design could be any less sexualized to the general public would be if her skirt went down to her ankles. It's telling that 99.99% of the porn of her requires her to be completely out of character.
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If her skirt went down to her ankles, that would only make her MORE sexual, since she'd have that sukeban look between the track jacket and long skirt.
 
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