Pokémon (Not-So) Griefing Thread - Scarlet and Violet Released with 10 Million Copies in First 3 Days in Buggy States

[CptnSnshn]

Does anyone know any legitimately good ROM hacks? I'm looking for something to keep me busy while I wait for PLA.

Pokemon Gaia
Pokemon Glazed
Pokemon Bushido

 

[Disc]

Amen dude, but next you shouldn't put that in your counterargument since it discredits the persuasiveness. It becomes hard to convince the reader to your side of the debate when you reveal that you don't even feel that confident about it.

Starting with the end here, but it's for a reason. I'm not arguing with you on "these are good designs for the purpose you have stated". I'm arguing you on "your argument has significant flaws in it's premise, and even arguing the point is in and of itself stupid"

Spoiler: Containment Spoiler

Well of course the more personable Pokemon is more popular in the anime, but I'm not talking about the anime. I've never said once anything about the anime at all. I'm talking about the games here, G-A-M-E-S. I'm talking about how these newer Pokemon starter designs are too human for these games about a world of very animal-like creatures with mystical powers.

You can't act like how a pokemon is presented in other media won't affect how it's received in game. Most people will come to play pokemon because they saw some somewhere and want to use them. Therefore, the personalities starters are presented with in other media have a huge effect on their reception in the games. You can't talk about them in a bubble.

The big problem I have with your argument is that you frame it as something like this:

1. Pokemon are generally monsters first and foremost, and the starters should emphasize that.
2. Starters should thus not have clear basis in human jobs by default, and should instead emphasize the beastly traits to be more flexible in personality, allowing the player to anthropomorphise them freely.

Firstly, I challenge your premise. Pokemon are literally all shapes and sizes, from sentient blobs to humanoid, and starters have never been a grand indicator of the variety or monstrous possibilities you proclaim they are. The original starter trio are literally all scaly, tough-looking reptiles, which is surprisingly uncommon in Kanto as a whole, and certainly not a good indicator of it's strongest and most interesting pokemon. The legendary birds are, well, birds, and mewtwo is very much humanised. Gyarados you could argue, but Dragonite is one of the doofiest dragons in the series.

Compare that to our spoonbender Alakazam, our wrestling champ Machamp, Jynx the singer, Mr. Mime, Hitmonlee and Chan, resident Fatass Snorlax, Hypno, or the pokemon that become two-armed bipeds as they evolve, like Rhydon, Kabutops, Poliwrath, Vileplume, Mankey losing it's tail and gaining human accessories, so much more.

This measure, and the standard you've pulled from it, are both arbitrary and aren't really reinforced in reality - you've kinda just pulled it from your ass.

Secondly, I challenge your premise that pokemon with less defined personalities will make for better starters. I distinctly remember gravitating to some starters specifically because of clear-cut personality - hell, there were whole memes about Smugleaf Snivy's personality, and I personally gravitated to it for that. These characteristics don't make them blank slates, but depending on the person, they can be the seed from which ideas grow about their nuances of their personality, or the personality they're embedded with might be naturally attractive regardless.

(On a related note, I find your drawn line of Gen 6 very dodgy, and not acknowledging the careers and personality expressed in at least Empoleon, Infernape, Blaziken and all the Gen 5 starters. Solely bipedal final stages started at 6, but none of this career/personality measure you're pointing to did. I could also point to Charizard clearly being a fierce dragon archetype and how that implies some very obvious personality traits, but I think it's clear that this is more about human archetypes than raw personality.)

Are you for real? Popularity polls are never a reliable indication of any measure for understanding which starter is objectively better designed. Popularity polls are a complete subjective mess of demographics, ideas, and opinions that arbitrarily changes all the time. Do people love Greninja because of the games or the anime? Is it mostly kids or adults that love him? Do they love him for his design or moveset? or both? You can't fucking tell because all this data is dumped into a countless number of unregulated social media polls.

Putting aside that your final word in the first one talks about which Pokemon are most beloved, yet you never explain how you determined that...

Trying to argue that one set is "objectively" better designed is stupid, and you should know better. You have a standard by which you're measuring, but it's a completely arbitrary one that isn't really based in anything other than your perception of what kids will respond to best - which you haven't evidenced.

As for the rest of the paragraph, that is my point you dumb of fuck. You are trying to apply an objective veneer to an incredibly subjective topic, one that is heavily influenced by dozens of factors external to the character design itself. Which is why, to me, the standards you are measuring don't stand up to scrutiny. You're applying them after the fact, trying to apply a simple yardstick to an inherently subjective and infinitely corrupted topic.

My point is not that these starters are as good as the classics. My point is that trying to act like there's some single objective measure of what makes a good starter is ridiculous, and this is where the shaky parts of your argument come from.

 

[Celebrate Nite]

but you can't deny design philosophies changed heavily from gen to gen.

Memes are fun to use to prove a point

 

[SnowBall]

That last one is alot of cherry picking examples and has often been used to bash the newer designs as “souless.” Also that old school looking Zorua is awful.

 

[Rotollo 2]

Also that old school looking Zorua is awful.

Its extremely unsettling like those slightly off deep fakes.

 

[Nauseated Courgi]

That last one is alot of cherry picking examples and has often been used to bash the newer designs as “souless.” Also that old school looking Zorua is awful.

Yeah, rather or not pokemon designs are bad is and always has been a subjective matter.

All the old-school fans giving all of their reasons for why "new pokemon bad" can be applied to older mons as well.

Spoiler: Some examples

"The new pokemon look like too simple"

So does Dragonite. It looks like a living plush toy compared to the other fearsome beast we got later and Wigglytuff looks like a beanbag with limbs and ears. Not to mention Chansey, Clefable, Gengar, Electrode and many others.

"The new pokemon are too human!"

So does Alakazam, Hitmonchan/lee/top, Jynx, etc.

Really, it just comes down to the older fans not liking the new mons because they aren't the ones they grew up with. That's fine, but that doesn't mean there's anything particularly wrong with new designs.

Even when PLA's mons got leaked everyone in this thread reacted to them differently. Hell, some people even warmed up to them.

Tl;Dr: There's no such thing as an objectively good or bad pokemon design.

 

[Rotollo 2]

Really, it just comes down to the older fans not liking the new mons because they aren't the ones they grew up with. That's fine, but that doesn't mean there's anything particularly wrong with new designs.

Even when PLA's mons got leaked everyone in this thread reacted to them differently. Hell, some people even warmed up to them.

I don't think it's always "Old good, New bad" for some people its a lot of different factors. While I do not think there may be an "overall shift" in designs universally I do think each region has it's own design philosophy. For example, new Kalos mons have different priorities from Galar mons that have different priorities from Hoenn ect. ect.
Stuff like this can happen with cross gen evos sometimes, like back in sinnoh itself there was a major distaste for pokemon like electivire, rhyperior or togakiss in "ruining old designs" while people like me still really love them (except Rhyperior, nothing can make him good lmao).
And sometimes due to external factors you just never will warm up to a region's style and thats fine, like for example while I warmed up to these Hisian forms pretty quickly I don't think I ever will do that for the vast majority of galar mons. and you know what, thats fine because with over 900 creatures, there's sure to be a few returning ones you're okay to use even if the new batch are an entire miss in connecting to you.

 

[Nauseated Courgi]

I don't think it's always "Old good, New bad" for some people its a lot of different factors. While I do not think there may be an "overall shift" in designs universally I do think each region has it's own design philosophy. For example, new Kalos mons have different priorities from Galar mons that have different priorities from Hoenn ect. ect.
Stuff like this can happen with cross gen evos sometimes, like back in sinnoh itself there was a major distaste for pokemon like electivire, rhyperior or togakiss in "ruining old designs" while people like me still really love them (except Rhyperior, nothing can make him good lmao).
And sometimes due to external factors you just never will warm up to a region's style and thats fine, like for example while I warmed up to these Hisian forms pretty quickly I don't think I ever will do that for the vast majority of galar mons. and you know what, thats fine because with over 900 creatures, there's sure to be a few returning ones you're okay to use even if the new batch are an entire miss in connecting to you.

I get that. When different artists are in charge of designing each gen, styles are bound to shift and change one way or another.

 

[Leaf-eon]

Since we're on the topic on Pokémon designs I might as well post these memes.

Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of the older Pokémon designs. But I find the whole "older pokemon designs are better then newer pokemon designs " discussion very autistic.

 

[Kari Kamiya]

Edit: Shrink lore 2
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/vp/ arguing more about if this fact being brought up again as dumb or not drowning out discussion of the game itself is the best part of this leak season

My love-hate relationship with the Pokémon fandom ensures I will never-ever leave it because the new-old shit fans find to sperg about like the shrinking theory/lore is so fascinating. This is why Pokémon has lasted for 24 years with no signs of stopping, discussion just flourishes.

 

[Love Machine]

I usually don't mind biped people mon, but sneasler is TOO FAR.

 

[Lapis Lazuli]

Since we're on the topic on Pokémon designs I might as well post these memes.
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Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of the older Pokémon designs. But I find the whole "older pokemon designs are better then newer pokemon designs " discussion very autistic.

Would people really consider generation 4 and 5 "new gen" anymore, though? If anything, everything before generation 6 may be old gen now.

 

[Wingnut]

That last one is alot of cherry picking examples and has often been used to bash the newer designs as “souless.” Also that old school looking Zorua is awful.

I have to admit I like the "old school" Crabrawler, but I also don't hate his current design.
Crabominable on the other hand I think is just plain stupid looking.

 

[Rotollo 2]

My love-hate relationship with the Pokémon fandom ensures I will never-ever leave it because the new-old shit fans find to sperg about like the shrinking theory/lore is so fascinating. This is why Pokémon has lasted for 24 years with no signs of stopping, discussion just flourishes.

the best part was that this also caused a talk back thread between /vp/ and a place called pokemon bbs

ぼく「4chanってところにポケモン板があるのか！行ってみよう」：ポケモンBBS（掲示板）

ポケモン掲示板です。アニメやゲーム、カードなどの話題。SS・対戦・交換も

pokemonbbs.com

https://boards.4channel.org/vp/thread/49424685

Basically a conversation between /vp/ and a Japanese Pokémon fansite, with various people asking them opinions about how a lot of the games are seen over there
This leak season has been incredibly comfy

I usually don't mind biped people mon, but sneasler is TOO FAR.

Sneasler is based because it sounds like Sneedsler

 

[Leaf-eon]

Would people really consider generation 4 and 5 "new gen" anymore, though? If anything, everything before generation 6 may be old gen now.

I think gen 4 and 5 could be consider a old gen now since gen 4 already has a remake and gen 5 is ten years old now, But I don't if fans consider them an old gen because fans can be weird like that.

 

[Archeops]

I’m thinking about getting a copy of Legends when it comes out but after looking at the physical stock at Amazon (sold out) and GameStop (in-stock but more than likely will arrive after release day) I’m probably going to go with a digital copy. After doing some research, it appears that Ryujinx has Mac support so I’ll emulate it as a last resort.

 

[CrippleThreat]

I have to admit I like the "old school" Crabrawler, but I also don't hate his current design.
Crabominable on the other hand I think is just plain stupid looking.
View attachment 2920376

I used this thing back during regular Sun (worst evo method too), and I have to agree. However, the point has to be made this thing looks abominable, despite the derpiness.

 

[Dammit Mandrake!]

I’m thinking about getting a copy of Legends when it comes out but after looking at the physical stock at Amazon (sold out) and GameStop (in-stock but more than likely will arrive after release day) I’m probably going to go with a digital copy. After doing some research, it appears that Ryujinx has Mac support so I’ll emulate it as a last resort.

Just emulate it. Doesn't seem like the game is worth the money.

 

[Rotollo 2]

I’m thinking about getting a copy of Legends when it comes out but after looking at the physical stock at Amazon (sold out) and GameStop (in-stock but more than likely will arrive after release day) I’m probably going to go with a digital copy. After doing some research, it appears that Ryujinx has Mac support so I’ll emulate it as a last resort.

I preordered at gamestop and hoping they have that card book that advertised by the time they get there, legit the art of this game is so fucking cool and stylized, if anyone can find official posters based on PLA let me know because I would buy and hang that up in my room in a heart beat
If you have an AMD GPU you are fucked on emulation
Also yeah it did sell out wtf

Does this happen often, because this is the first time I have seen it even for a pokemon game, guess it makes sense with everyone ordering online due to coof

 

[Archeops]

I preordered at gamestop and hoping they have that card book that advertised by the time they get there, legit the art of this game is so fucking cool and stylized, if anyone can find official posters based on PLA let me know because I would buy and hang that up in my room in a heart beat
also if you have an AMD GPU you are fucked on emulation
Also yeah it did sell out wtf
View attachment 2921257
Does this happen often, because this is the first time I have seen it even for a pokemon game, guess it makes sense with everyone ordering online due to coof

I would've preordered it at GameStop but I'm nowhere near my local one and I'm not 100% sure if the preorder bonus is also included with digital preorders (it most likely isn't). That said, I did pick up a download code off of Amazon not only will I be getting the Garchomp Kimono Set but since the code was redeemed off of the eShop I also get the 30 Heavy Balls that they're advertising.

I also did some research on the game selling out on Amazon and they apparently ran out of physical copies on the 13th with the main explanation being that the leaks caused a lot of hype and, as a result of it, increased demand for the game.

Oh and as far as emulation goes it appears that my outdated mid-2012 Macbook Pro can't run the game unless I upgrade the graphics card .