One Piece - I'm Gonna Be the Pirate King!

[Incecticyder]

Considering how much Oda hates Wizard of Oz,

Really? He said that? Where?

 

[Random Internet Person]

Really? He said that? Where?

Well, “hate” may be the wrong word, but Oda did mention Wizard of Oz by name in an interview.


So it left an impression on him at least.

on the topic of joyboy and luffy. what are the odds the complete strawhat crew ends up being a mirror image of the people joyboy interacted with in the past. for example zunesha and emet could be joyboys versions of chopper and franky.

Haven’t we already had it where Luffy’s crew is a mirror of Roger’s crew?

 

[Kari Kamiya]

Was going to say, I think Oda's made references to Wizard of Oz (the Emerald City remark notwithstanding), which is weird to do if you don't like something.

 

[Random Internet Person]

Was going to say, I think Oda's made references to Wizard of Oz (the Emerald City remark notwithstanding), which is weird to do if you don't like something.

Again, he’s brought it up to show what he’s NOT going to do. And “hate” may be overselling it. But I still think that it’s gotta mean something if you bring something up just to say “I’m not gonna do this thing that was done before”.

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

Was going to say, I think Oda's made references to Wizard of Oz (the Emerald City remark notwithstanding), which is weird to do if you don't like something.

From the wording of the interview he means he's not going to say, "it was all just a dream."

 

[6MillionCoofs]

Haven’t we already had it where Luffy’s crew is a mirror of Roger’s crew?

No. Otherwise Luffy would fail miserably and die of a sickness after pussing out like a bitch.

But seriously, Rogers crew is not built like Luffy’s. Only thing resembling Roger’s crew is his Left and Right Hands and well, there is no way Zoro or Sanji, especially Sanji, is ever getting a women.

But I still think that it’s gotta mean something if you bring something up just to say “I’m not gonna do this thing that was done before”.

It’s arguably the most widely known example of ‘the prize was the friends we made along thr way’, it’s the obvious example to bring up when everyone is saying ‘it will just be like Oz and be the friends he made along the way’ for decades at that point.

 

[Incecticyder]

Again, he’s brought it up to show what he’s NOT going to do. And “hate” may be overselling it. But I still think that it’s gotta mean something if you bring something up just to say “I’m not gonna do this thing that was done before”.

Yeah, I do not get hate, just "This is not the story I want to end up with after all that investment". The Wizard of Oz is far shorter too. As for inspiration, The Wizard clearly inspired Imu. Both are men hiding their true nature and power. The Wizard is a good man that tries to pretend to be strong while being weak while Imu is an evil man that tries to pretend to be unimportant while being the Top Dog. Imu is an inversion of the Wizard.

No. Otherwise Luffy would fail miserably and die of a sickness after pussing out like a bitch.

Did you miss the part where he was executed after giving a giant middle finger to the WG by kickstarting the Golden Age of Pirates? It was in the OP.

But seriously, Rogers crew is not built like Luffy’s. Only thing resembling Roger’s crew is his Left and Right Hands and well, there is no way Zoro or Sanji, especially Sanji, is ever getting a women.

Except the times where women throw themselves at both of them.

It’s arguably the most widely known example of ‘the prize was the friends we made along thr way’, it’s the obvious example to bring up when everyone is saying ‘it will just be like Oz and be the friends he made along the way’ for decades at that point.

That was not the meaning of the story. Finding strength inside yourself was. Scarecrow got wiser by the journey, Tinman got his heart and Lion found courage through adversity. By trying to help, they got stronger and better as people. It is far more motivational. It tells you to get up and fight for what you want and that you should not expect someone to grand you your wish. YOU have to be the one to make it happen.

Basically, the meaning was "Go after what you want, do not expect hand-outs".

 

[6MillionCoofs]

Except the times where women throw themselves at both of them

They still aren’t going to end up with any of them. Sanji because Sanji and Zoro because he’ll get lost.

That was not the meaning of the story

I know it wasn’t the meaning of the story. I was saying it was the most known example of the reward being nothing or the friends we made along or being inside you all along the way.

Did you miss the part where he was executed after giving a giant middle finger to the WG by kickstarting the Golden Age of Pirates?

Exactly my point. Luffy would have been sicker and still managed to do what needed to be done. All Roger did was fuck a women and then die because somehow he knew that was better than raising Ace and paying child support.

I don’t consider the Age of Pirates a good thing considering 99% of them are horrible people. Not even Luffy would be stupid enough to do that.

I have hated Roger sparking The Golden Age of Piracy ever since it was recontextualised in Marineford as him giving himself up and especially further on when it’s suggested him sparking the age was planned and intentional. And now that I think about it, Garp was likely in on it too. It gets worse…

 

[Kari Kamiya]

and Zoro because he’ll get lost.

Normal men already can't find the clitoris, so it makes you wonder how much Zoro will fuck it up.

 

[6MillionCoofs]

Normal men already can't find the clitoris, so it makes you wonder how much Zoro will fuck it up.

There is an SBS question in that.

 

[Incecticyder]

They still aren’t going to end up with any of them. Sanji because Sanji and Zoro because he’ll get lost.

One Piece and speculations go together about as well as US presidents and convertibles.

I know it wasn’t the meaning of the story. I was saying it was the most known example of the reward being nothing or the friends we made along or being inside you all along the way.

The reward was self-improvement and returning home. Not friendship. Friendship was means to an end.

Exactly my point. Luffy would have been sicker and still managed to do what needed to be done. All Roger did was fuck a women and then die because somehow he knew that was better than raising Ace and paying child support.

1) He could not pay child support because he was literally dying before being able to even see the child being born. 2) Helping Ace in any way would give away his identity and get him killed. The WG was killing every baby suspected of being Roger's.

I don’t consider the Age of Pirates a good thing considering 99% of them are horrible people. Not even Luffy would be stupid enough to do that.

Yes, they were horrible. But it was necessary to inspire the future Joy Boy. Roger knew what he should do to make sure Joy Boy appears due to reading the journal.

I have hated Roger sparking The Golden Age of Piracy ever since it was recontextualised in Marineford as him giving himself up and especially further on when it’s suggested him sparking the age was planned and intentional. And now that I think about it, Garp was likely in on it too. It gets worse…

Except that makes no sense. Garp believes in the Marines being the necessary evil. While he would let his family get away, he would not be ok with any other pirate doing what they please. Suggesting that he would is out of character for him.

 

[6MillionCoofs]

But it was necessary to inspire the future Joy Boy

It wasn’t though. Future Joy Boy was inspired by Shanks who talking about Roger who was before the Great Age. Even Mihawk was already known before it kicked off. As was the idea of the All Blue. Great Age literally never needed to happen.

That’s why I will forever hate Oda revealing the entire thing to have been intended and planned. It works much better when it is Roger, literally spurred on by a rando, just deciding to go ‘fuck everyone and damm the consequences, including my friends‘. It being planned and Roger giving himself in ruins a lot in my mind when you look back now.

Suggesting that he would is out of character for him.

Sure but not impossible. Roger just so happens to get captured and the last thing he does is talk to Garp. If anything it suggests Garp knew and decided ‘i’ll do my best to try and stop it’

And well since it was Garp he naturally failed horribly. Lmao

 

[Incecticyder]

It wasn’t though. Future Joy Boy was inspired by Shanks who talking about Roger who was before the Great Age. Even Mihawk was already known before it kicked off. As was the idea of the All Blue. Great Age literally never needed to happen.

Yes it was. Shanks found the Nika fruit and Joy Boy on Roger's orders. The Golden Age was necessary for Joy Boy. The Elders knew of the secret of the Gomu Gomu no Mi. By having a ton of pirates running around, the Marines had their hands full and could not justify sending a strong force against an upstart pirate when truly dangerous pirates were causing trouble. If not for the great volume of pirates, the Elders could totally tell the Marines to go after Luffy with their strongest men as the seas would be more peaceful.

Sure but not impossible. Roger just so happens to get captured and the last thing he does is talk to Garp. If anything it suggests Garp knew and decided ‘i’ll do my best to try and stop it’

And well since it was Garp he naturally failed horribly. Lmao

Garp might be strong but he is just one man. If he is in one place, he cannot be in any other. Also, it is natural for him to assume he could have made a dent in the Golden Age. He underestimated the scale of the pirate population for there had never been such a massive amount of people deciding to become pirates. No one knew what to expect.

 

[6MillionCoofs]

Yes it was. Shanks found the Nika fruit and Joy Boy on Roger's orders

You don’t need a Pirate Era for that.

Again, everything was much better when everything wasn’t an obvious giant webs of plans.

 

[Random Internet Person]

You don’t need a Pirate Era for that.

Again, everything was much better when everything wasn’t an obvious giant webs of plans.

Still a more coherent web of plans than what Naruto ended up becoming .

 

[6MillionCoofs]

Still a more coherent web of plans than what Naruto ended up becoming .

Oda has always been good at making his spur of the moment ideas at least make sense in the story even when they are terrible overall.

 

[Incecticyder]

You don’t need a Pirate Era for that.

Good God, did you read only half the post? I said that the Pirate Era was to keep the Marines busy and distracted away from Luffy and Ace.

Again, everything was much better when everything wasn’t an obvious giant webs of plans.

What web of plans? Every faction has their own goals, means and schemes but that is it. This is not second half of Death Note level of complexity.

 

[6MillionCoofs]

Good God, did you read only half the post? I said that the Pirate Era was to keep the Marines busy and distracted away from Luffy and Ace.

It’s been very established that the only thing stopping that is the higher ups really do not care. As if they did they would’ve attacked a weakened Luffy at Wano like they said they would.

The Golden Age works better as a spur of the moment thing rather than the seemingly premeditated thing it has become as a result.

What web of plans? Every faction has their own goals, means and schemes but that is it. This is not second half of Death Note level of complexity.

It is not complex on the level of Death Note, no. Never said it was. But just like Death Note i think it ruined a lot by trying to be. Just like with Death Note things were better when things were simpler.

 

[Random Internet Person]

Good God, did you read only half the post? I said that the Pirate Era was to keep the Marines busy and distracted away from Luffy and Ace.

I thought the Pirate Era referred to all the pirates heading out to find Roger’s treasure, Luffy included. The Marines only began to focus on Luffy after Arlong Park and Alabasta after he exposed a Marine’s corruption and exposed how Crocodile was abusing his warlord status.

 

[Incecticyder]

It’s been very established that the only thing stopping that is the higher ups really do not care. As if they did they would’ve attacked a weakened Luffy at Wano like they said they would.

Except Shanks intercepted Green Bull. Also, the Nika fruit has the tendency to slip away from them, meaning that they would either have to commit a large force to take Wano and Luffy (and be left vulnerable to BB and the Cross Guild that had recently started issuing bounties on Marines, causing casualties and paranoia amongst their ranks) or risk losing it again. Everything has a good explanation.

It is not complex on the level of Death Note, no. Never said it was. But just like Death Note i think it ruined a lot by trying to be. Just like with Death Note things were better when things were simpler.

Every story is complex. Themes, narrative, subtext etc etc. The story was complex from the beginning. Until it becomes hard to follow, there is no problem. I mean, seriously, what is wrong with a story asking the reader to think? To be treated like a smart, thinking person?

I thought the Pirate Era referred to all the pirates heading out to find Roger’s treasure, Luffy included. The Marines only began to focus on Luffy after Arlong Park and Alabasta after he exposed a Marine’s corruption and exposed how Crocodile was abusing his warlord status.

Yes, Roger wanted Ace and Joy Boy to be free to fulfill the promise. By causing all the pirates to head out and cause trouble, he kept the Marines busy and hid Luffy and Ace. They did not even know Luffy existed because Garp sent him away to hide. Exposing them was a factor but the Nika fruit is in hindsight the bigger deal.