Military Equipment Sperging Thread - The Tiger II is a better tank than the M1 Abrams edition

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I stay in defense related threads most often but haven't been around here before. I work for a defense company in Japan and spend a lot of time perusing defense expos and so on. The new Trump class or Defiant class, whatever it comes to be known seems both dumb and cool and I don't mind seeing how it turns out. I don't expect it to. I expect it to be over budget, behind schedule and ultimately scrapped on the slipway but if it was made I would love to see if China responds with it's own or whoever wants to build another huge warship in the current age. If done right it could actually be useful to the USN for all I know. I'm thoroughly interested and hell maybe it's not too dumb. I bring up defense expos because the next one hosted in Tokyo or Chiba will hopefully have a booth for the new battleship and I would love to learn more about it. It'll be a task and half for sure to get laid down.

Related but I didn't know where to post it. Among the discourse surrounding the new announcement I was sent a video on youtube with like a bunch of rantsonas melting down about the thing like it's a bad movie from 2014. Lot's of "They're MAKING WHAT YOU STUPID FU-" and like this is KF I know not the most scholarly of places but I can't stand that kind of weird gay meltdown. It goes from "lets talk about this" to "YOU'RE STUPID DRUMPF I HATE YOU" and we get nowhere.

Anyways Merry Christmas mili-spergs.
This is a thing that Trump does, it seems to be pretty successful sometimes and this seems like it might be one of those times; he tends to word things in the most ridiculous way possible, which acts as a red herring and distracts people from the actual details of what he's trying to do. 'DRUMPH IS TRYING TO BUILD BATTLESHIPS' eats up the average conversation on the topic and that average hysterical libshit never gets the chance to actually criticize the details of the proposal.

The more I think of it, the more it strikes me as not too crazy, in theory. It's not hard to see that carrier groups are more vulnerable than in the past and stretched thin across the planet. More powerful air defense and land attack vessels make sense, command ships that can lead surface groups without carriers make sense. It all depends on how much government retardation and corruption get in the way of planning and technology. I'm still very skeptical that we'll build 25 of them even in a best case, but there is room for useful ships to be built here.

Welcome to the farms, and Merry Christmas. Is anyone else watching the NORAD Santa tracker?
 
Keyboard is marginally broken. I bring 2 TWZ articles without much from me.
1766602806015.png
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The comments on that site are incredibly retarded. Is their userbase anything but corrupt career officers, MIC bureaucrats, and Europeans living vicariously through the US military?

They can’t possibly be engineers or soldiers because none of them are that stupid.
 
Offerings for PrSM increment 4 are starting to solidify. The Lockheed-Martin design is claiming a range of >800km (compared to the previously stated 1000km requirement, deliberate ambiguity IMO), with a ramjet for extended range and high-speed manuvering, and the same multi-mode passive seeker as the increment 2 design. For those who don't recall, increment 1 is a direct ATACMS replacement currently being produced at about 120 missiles per year, 2 is an anti-ship variant, 3 develops different warheads and payloads, 4 extends the range and flight performance, and 5 is intended to create autonomous launch vehicles. They are apparently also discussing a ship-launched version with the Navy.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-new...red-anti-ship-ballistic-missile-at-ausa-2025/

Also, here's more info on the 'Wolf Pack' drone/missile that the USN was looking at for helicopters, made by L3Harris. They've landed in that bougie-budget pricepoint with Anduril's Barracuda, with variants costing between 300k-400k USD. The family is divided into Red Wolf for electronic effects and Green Wolf kinetic effects (lol dumb, flip that). The design philosophy is aimed at modular everything with lots of cool buzzwords, but like Barracuda the emphasis is on the combination of passive sensors, datalinks, and software to create a realtively low cost self-directing swarm attack.


The US Army is also making more requests for their own heli/UAV launched Air Launched Effects drone program. A handful of requirements include a minimum of 40km range with loitering time, a dash of 100-200km, lethal and nonlethal payloads, autonomy, and ability to detect identify locate and report.

 
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Sorry for the double post, edit button is gone so I can't add it to the last one.

More info on PrSM Increment 3 payloads, they are eyeing Raytheon's Coyote drones as well as Orbital ATK's Hatchet loitering munition. This would give a range of options for lethal/nonlethal payloads and number of submunitions. There is also description of Increment 5 as another range increase to serve as an MRBM, I'm gonna have to read deeper and find out where 'autonomous launchers' came from and where it went.


Here is discussion on the autonomous launch requirement for Increment 5. The range increase and autonomy requirements go together, since they apparently want to increase the length of the missiles without replacing the launch vehicles by removing the crew cabs and replacing them with drone control.

 
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Believe me man, I am all for this in theory, on paper, at face value. I am all over this thread bemoaning the lack of ambition and fucking drip within US shipbuilding that we once could easily boast of. After all that has happened, I'll believe this when I fucking see it.
The ship autists on X are SUPER BUTTHURT about this because it's not a fucking Japanese Frigate and of course.... ORANGE MAN BAD
 
I stay in defense related threads most often but haven't been around here before. I work for a defense company in Japan and spend a lot of time perusing defense expos and so on. The new Trump class or Defiant class, whatever it comes to be known seems both dumb and cool and I don't mind seeing how it turns out. I don't expect it to. I expect it to be over budget, behind schedule and ultimately scrapped on the slipway but if it was made I would love to see if China responds with it's own or whoever wants to build another huge warship in the current age. If done right it could actually be useful to the USN for all I know. I'm thoroughly interested and hell maybe it's not too dumb. I bring up defense expos because the next one hosted in Tokyo or Chiba will hopefully have a booth for the new battleship and I would love to learn more about it. It'll be a task and half for sure to get laid down.

Related but I didn't know where to post it. Among the discourse surrounding the new announcement I was sent a video on youtube with like a bunch of rantsonas melting down about the thing like it's a bad movie from 2014. Lot's of "They're MAKING WHAT YOU STUPID FU-" and like this is KF I know not the most scholarly of places but I can't stand that kind of weird gay meltdown. It goes from "lets talk about this" to "YOU'RE STUPID DRUMPF I HATE YOU" and we get nowhere.

Anyways Merry Christmas mili-spergs.
TDS infects mil spergs too 🤪

Also, defense industry in Japan sounds extremely..... Limited. Aka just JSDF contracts every 5-10 years and that's it
The first flight of new frigates won't have VLS... The next flights most certainly will. A LOT of frigate spergs are insanely asshurt about this on X. It's hilarious.
The comments on that site are incredibly retarded. Is their userbase anything but corrupt career officers, MIC bureaucrats, and Europeans living vicariously through the US military?

They can’t possibly be engineers or soldiers because none of them are that stupid.
TWZ commenters rival Redditors in pure stupidity.

A LOT of pre 2016 career officers and MiC types HATE Trump because he's a massive change agent plus they all got their stars/commissions under Obama from 2009 to 2016. A solid 8 YEARS of US military officers swallowed to woke BS the Obama admin was pumping out to get promoted and now they see their sinceures threatened and are MAD.
With one sentence, I am now very much not sold on the BBG concept. I thought these would be a CG(X) replacement.

I have a feel they're just saying this now for optics.

DDG(X) will hit the water in the late 2030s.

The Trump class is a Ticonderoga class replacement and I'll be honest, they'll probably stop at 22-24 of them.

Flight 3 Burkes are fine and will be made into the 2030s but that's it for the Burke class, it's completely maxed out
 
The Trump Battleship is the most retarded shit ever.
I both love it and hate it.
Love it because battleships are cool (WW2 battleships are peak in design) but hate it because it is shit.
There is a reason why nobody have built battleship since WW2.
HMS Vanugard.jpg
Look at that sexy Ship.
 
The Trump Battleship is the most retarded shit ever.
I both love it and hate it.
Love it because battleships are cool (WW2 battleships are peak in design) but hate it because it is shit.
There is a reason why nobody have built battleship since WW2.
View attachment 8353983
Look at that sexy Ship.
But it's more of a heavy missile cruiser (plz be nuclear powered)
 
TWZ commenters rival Redditors in pure stupidity.

A LOT of pre 2016 career officers and MiC types HATE Trump because he's a massive change agent plus they all got their stars/commissions under Obama from 2009 to 2016. A solid 8 YEARS of US military officers swallowed to woke BS the Obama admin was pumping out to get promoted and now they see their sinceures threatened and are MAD.
Inform me more on TWZ. I usually like their articles, but I know fuck all about the comments
 
Also, defense industry in Japan sounds extremely..... Limited. Aka just JSDF contracts every 5-10 years and that's it
You'd be surprised. The JSDF is constantly designing and building new programs. The ones that reach the public are just the most successful, not always the most interesting. That being said I focus on regional defense not just Japan. Though Japan is where I live and work, a good portion of my time is spent on Chinese and Korean defense subjects. I've been to a Chinese hosted defense show, not a fan of the creatures. Sometimes when conflict does happen in the far east like the current Thai-Cambodia conflict I spend time on that too. Same with things like the Philippine acquisition of retired JMSDF ships. Innocuous but interesting.
 
You'd be surprised. The JSDF is constantly designing and building new programs. The ones that reach the public are just the most successful, not always the most interesting. That being said I focus on regional defense not just Japan. Though Japan is where I live and work, a good portion of my time is spent on Chinese and Korean defense subjects. I've been to a Chinese hosted defense show, not a fan of the creatures. Sometimes when conflict does happen in the far east like the current Thai-Cambodia conflict I spend time on that too. Same with things like the Philippine acquisition of retired JMSDF ships. Innocuous but interesting.
What's your assessment of the actual readiness/quality of the JSDF? Could they keep Japan safe from the PLA/PLAN?
 
What's your assessment of the actual readiness/quality of the JSDF? Could they keep Japan safe from the PLA/PLAN?
It's a bit long winded but in short I have confidence that the JSDF could stop an air and sea invasion of Japan in the start of a conflict, but long term could be tricky. The JMSDF receives a lot of funding specifically because of concerns regarding the PLAN. the Japanese MOD has put a lot of time and effort into weapons programs and ship programs to maximize the use of a hull and minimize the amount of crew required to run it. What is most important in the start of a conflict is blunting the PLAN spear before it can establish safe transit for amphibious landings. To that end, Japan has invested in a multi layered defense plan starting with ships and all the way to mobile land based anti-ship missile systems that can be deployed anywhere. The JSDF is also constantly training and has a high standard for entrance and training alike. The current doctrine is defensive and plays into that well.

The issues stem from a potential long lasting conflict against China, a nation that not only has immense manpower but immense people to draft. Military service in Japan is thankless hard work and you have to love your nation or love the military to make it a career. Unlike the U.S there's no discounts, benefits or healthcare subsidies after leaving service. You have your pension but everyone in Japan does. You have your healthcare but so does everyone else. All this is to say military service is unpopular and could be a source of weakness when replacing manpower. China's ships are impressive on paper but if their best are countered early on, Japan's life gets easier. There is an expectation that the U.S would join in a conflict but it's not relied upon as a crutch. That being said Japanese realists within government and military expect the opening of a conflict between JP and CN would rely on Japan holding out until the gears in the U.S start turning.

As far as military preparedness goes. Japan is well off. Not in the amount of stuff they have now but the industry they can tap in to during a conflict. Major contractors like MHI reserve the right to cancel any non defense related project and produce what is needed for a hot conflict. This is on top of non in use capabilities (like building nuclear reactors for ships and long range delivery systems) are still practiced. It's glacially slow but the skilled workers are there working on rockets or new ships. If they didn't they would lose the skilled labor in question. That's why filling out the MODs Type 90 MBT order took so long and why the U.S still makes Abrams the Amry doesn't need. If you slow it down you preserve skilled workers incase you need to ramp up industry.

In most Japanese war games China holds and endge in endurance but Japan's current doctrine is deterrance through cost. Much like the swiss, the idea is to make every advance cost more than it's worth. How many ships and aircraft is China willing to lose, how many carriers and subs etc. So long as advancement to the mainland can be stifled it buys time for things at home to change. Recruiting reforms, enlistment incentives etc. Japan doesn't plan on winning a prolonged conflict with China through taking land but bleeding as much as possible. To this end I feel the JSDF is ready for a conflict just not a long one without outside support past the 6 month mark. I belive after that time if no large reforms have been passed at home, some islands might be taken like Tsushima and possibly some in the Ryukyu chain or those closest to Taiwan.

Japan produces a lot of munitions and stores them away. For example old tanks as far back as the Type 61, decomissioned decades ago, go to cold storage for rainy days and Japanese naval procurment emphesiszes building good ships, going as far as decomissioning ships with a decade left on their life just to ensure no capability is lost. None of this is to say Japan could "demolish china" on it's own but I am of the opinion that Japan could shut down Chinese advances for a while. Not forever, and without outside help things would gets worse over time. But if Ukraine has taught me anything it's that wars are very random and things that are inoccuous could turn out to be very important.

I didn't want to throw up numbers and percentages and so on because this is long enough already, but what it comes down to for a seaborne conflict is how many ships with decent systems can be produced in a set amount of time. Which is another headache entirely. Though good training and good ships go a long way.

Tl;dr: The JSDF has a high standard and good rediness but lacks the long term endurance China has with it's large military. A war with China is a game of battleship where making transiting costly is the name of the game.
 
There is a new missile being tested on Bradley IFVs. Possibly related to the Close Combat Missile System, Heavy program to eventually replace the TOW, that's still just speculation though. The only name this thing currently has is the '670', which is too close to the '6 7' meme for me to not fucking laugh. Zoomers will yeet enemy armor using the power of 6 7.

 
There is a new missile being tested on Bradley IFVs. Possibly related to the Close Combat Missile System, Heavy program to eventually replace the TOW, that's still just speculation though. The only name this thing currently has is the '670', which is too close to the '6 7' meme for me to not fucking laugh. Zoomers will yeet enemy armor using the power of 6 7.

Sad the TOW is getting replaced, but I guess it needed to happen sometime, it literally is Vietnam era tech
 
There is a new missile being tested on Bradley IFVs. Possibly related to the Close Combat Missile System, Heavy program to eventually replace the TOW, that's still just speculation though. The only name this thing currently has is the '670', which is too close to the '6 7' meme for me to not fucking laugh. Zoomers will yeet enemy armor using the power of 6 7.
I remember that picture. That's a Coyote LE SR. From 8 months ago:
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