Marvel Cinematic Universe

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Sorry to get off topic but did anyone else feel that Steve Rogers' arc throughout this entire series was fucked by Endgame? His whole story was about coming to terms with a world he didn't recognize, and moving on, and then they have him go back in time to live with Peggy Carter, thus rendering his entire arc pointless? Very stupid. Black Widow as well, the most development she had in the entire series was:
>That one moment she kissed Steve in the mall as a diversion in Winter Soldier
>Bringing up how the Commies fucked up her womb in Age of Ultron
>Dying for one of the stones in Endgame
>The movie that no one watched that had terrible effects
And probably worst of all, the indecisive ship-bouncing between the male characters in just about any movie she's in.
>Iron Man 2, she baits Tony Stark as a SHIELD spy
>Avengers, it's implied she and Hawkeye were a thing for a bit
>Winter Soldier, it's even more blatant that she may have a thing for Steve
>Age of Ultron, her x Banner/Hulk baiting (even Tony makes a passing comment about them "playing hide the zucchini")
Then in Infinity War/Endgame I guess it's her and Steve? Then she dies.
Why did they fumble her so bad?
Y'know, for a character written by people who claim to be "feminists", they sure treat her like she's a common whore bouncing from cock to cock.
 
Lion of Yehuda said:
hey have him go back in time to live with Peggy Carter
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iirc, Winter Soldier or Civil War also reveals that she eventually married and had kids. So, what's the implication with Endgame -- that Steve was secretly that husband and he has a few kids running around or that Steve quantumly cucked a guy and erased two innocent kids from existence? But, yeah, they seemed so intent to give Steve a happy ending that they didn't really consider anything about it, including his character arc.
 
Lion of Yehuda said:
Sorry to get off topic but did anyone else feel that Steve Rogers' arc throughout this entire series was fucked by Endgame? His whole story was about coming to terms with a world he didn't recognize, and moving on, and then they have him go back in time to live with Peggy Carter, thus rendering his entire arc pointless? Very stupid. Black Widow as well, the most development she had in the entire series was:
>That one moment she kissed Steve in the mall as a diversion in Winter Soldier
>Bringing up how the Commies fucked up her womb in Age of Ultron
>Dying for one of the stones in Endgame
>The movie that no one watched that had terrible effects
And probably worst of all, the indecisive ship-bouncing between the male characters in just about any movie she's in.
>Iron Man 2, she baits Tony Stark as a SHIELD spy
>Avengers, it's implied she and Hawkeye were a thing for a bit
>Winter Soldier, it's even more blatant that she may have a thing for Steve
>Age of Ultron, her x Banner/Hulk baiting (even Tony makes a passing comment about them "playing hide the zucchini")
Then in Infinity War/Endgame I guess it's her and Steve? Then she dies.
Why did they fumble her so bad?
Y'know, for a character written by people who claim to be "feminists", they sure treat her like she's a common whore bouncing from cock to cock.
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The Russo Brothers can't cook, they even did the Guardians pretty dirty too as well, and Thor too. Steve and Black Widow have it worse because nothing can not change their endings.

With the Guardians, Starlord is treated like a massive idiot whose constantly demeaned by his friends just to act like Thor is the coolest guy ever. Drax also never gets any meaningful interactions with Thanos despite what he did to his family (if anything he should've been the Guardian who lived at the end of Infinity War). At least Guardians 3 redeemed them.

Thor meanwhile has a good chunk of his supporting cast die, and while he's badass in Infinity War, he's pretty much a walking fat joke in Endgame who ditches his responsibilities to fuck off with the Guardians because Feige wanted it. It all culminated in a spite project in Thor Love and Thunder which wasted away one of the best living actors. The only silver lining is that maybe Thor 5 can fix things given how outspoken Chris Hemsworth is about how he didn't like his acting in Love and Thunder.

Endgame also has plenty of plot problems which people give passes too because its an event movie but it looks worse when you critically analyze the plot:

>The whole Reverse Snap debacle as while yeah Tony didn't want to kill off his child, the Reverse Snap makes things worse off than the regular snap happened, and this is constantly address Post-Endgame. It doesn't help that the entire universe is unstable because the Snap also killed off animal and plant life so it just adds more instability for ecosystems beyond all the people problem's like all the immigration, more overpopulation, and increased homelessness. The Reverse Snap really is just dumb since there would still be consequences from Infinity War like Gamora, Vision, and Loki dying. It would've also been personal to fight the 2018 Thanos rather than a random Thanos from another universe.

>The whole time travel thing since its never addressed why they can't steal it from an alternate Thanos where he had them all at once even right after he used them the first time. Fans can make explanations but they have Captain Marvel and Thor who are the biggest fighters against Thanos that surely they could kick his ass and steal the gauntlet. It just feels like an excuse for a clip show, because time travel was basically the only story thought up of as well as blatant setup for new movies and tv shows.
 
Lion of Yehuda said:
Sorry to get off topic but did anyone else feel that Steve Rogers' arc throughout this entire series was fucked by Endgame?
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Every single character's arc was fucked by Endgame.

Endgame is a terrible fucking movie.

iirc, Winter Soldier or Civil War also reveals that she eventually married and had kids. So, what's the implication with Endgame -- that Steve was secretly that husband
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I do not think this is possible, in Winter Soldier Peggy is having severe dementia issues.
 
Tor Lugosi said:
iirc, Winter Soldier or Civil War also reveals that she eventually married and had kids. So, what's the implication with Endgame -- that Steve was secretly that husband and he has a few kids running around or that Steve quantumly cucked a guy and erased two innocent kids from existence? But, yeah, they seemed so intent to give Steve a happy ending that they didn't really consider anything about it, including his character arc.
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This actually contradicts what they explain in that same movie, lol.

The reason for this is that were saying goodbye to the og avengers cast and they needed to either die or being sent away because three of them were not coming back (in theory). If Steve ain't dead, then how do they explain him not being on the upcoming projects? Steve wouldn't miss it unless he wasn't there physically.

That's why the best should have been to cancel that universe as the main one and start over with a new one that includes the F4 and X-Men from the start, then bring back figures that were open to return. Deadpool 3 made clear the TVA can move people around to their convenience.
 
Tasty Tatty said:
If Steve ain't dead, then how do they explain him not being on the upcoming projects? Steve wouldn't miss it unless he wasn't there physically.
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Steve should have nabbed the Power Stone in the Melee and went Toe to Toe with Thanos using it and after the fight he reveals that using the Power Stone that long was too much for even him.
 
XYZpdq Jr. said:
decent setpieces with cap getting the thing
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And those set pieces don't actually matter.

They aren't even fighting the same Thanos, they are fighting a Thanos that exists only by sheer bad luck of Nova being sent to a time that her Other Self could connect up with her main timeline tech and tip of Thanos to what is going on.
 
Honka Honka Burning Love said:
And those set pieces don't actually matter.

They aren't even fighting the same Thanos, they are fighting a Thanos that exists only by sheer bad luck of Nova being sent to a time that her Other Self could connect up with her main timeline tech and tip of Thanos to what is going on.
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I meant the ones at the building with cap and past cap
oh wait yeah that's another thing too
they even admit they're not saving the day really just another day
 
Honka Honka Burning Love said:
Every single character's arc was fucked by Endgame.

Endgame is a terrible fucking movie.
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Endgame has 3 major problems.
1. Either killing off or getting rid of all the A-list characters.
2. The bullshit time travel.
3. Professor Hulk. Aka the version of Hulk no one likes.

But seriously DC does time travel so much better.
 
XYZpdq Jr. said:
I meant the ones at the building with cap and past cap
oh wait yeah that's another thing too
they even admit they're not saving the day really just another day
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Honestly I kind of hate the Cap vs Cap fight too.

I think it would have 100% been funnier...if Endgame Cap straight up told Avengers 1 Cap what was going on.

"You expect me to believe that?"

"I am Captain America, would I lie?"

1. Either killing off or getting rid of all the A-list characters.
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Well at some point the Actors do age out/want to move on.

I am fine with characters dying when it is time, but the movie made Tony and Steve look so fucking awful. Tony refused to FIX THE SNAP PROPERLY cause "Muh KEEEDS" and Steve just fucking noped out..and gave the shield to the wrong guy.

Falcon and Bucky's entire current issue is entirely because Falcon got the Shield instead of Bucky. People would have been perfectly fine with Bucky being the new Cap.
 
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Tor Lugosi said:
iirc, Winter Soldier or Civil War also reveals that she eventually married and had kids. So, what's the implication with Endgame -- that Steve was secretly that husband and he has a few kids running around or that Steve quantumly cucked a guy and erased two innocent kids from existence? But, yeah, they seemed so intent to give Steve a happy ending that they didn't really consider anything about it, including his character arc.
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I think that's what the Russo brothers were going for but the writers screwed them by making going back to the past create a new timeline each time, meaning that Steve never actually went back in time in his own timeline, he went to a new timeline.
This Peggy carter is an entirely different Peggy Carter and by going back in time, to a different timeline he just screwed with a different timeline and the TVA would have to go back and fix that. ( unfortunately they didn't think that through)

It seems like maybe in the early script, they were going to go with a predestination type of time travel like Dr Who where you don't create new paradoxes or timelines and going back in time to a certain point in time was always going to happen.
Especially for the fact that in the end, they put the stones back in their original spots before they left (Which they literally have no reason to because everytime they went back in time they created a new timeline so it doesn't matter if they take them back or not.)

I think it would have been genius to go with the predestination route and have Steve always have been with Peggy Carter in the original timeline and think of the fact that there was already in an old Steve in the MCU timeline watching the events that he has been through as Captain America in the modern world play out in real time as he is living with Peggy.

The Russo brothers still say this is the case, but from what I remember seeing, the script writers still say that it is still a different timeline.
A case of conflict between writers and directors creating contradictions within one story.
 
Powerhouse of the Cell said:
I think that's what the Russo brothers were going for but the writers screwed them by making going back to the past create a new timeline each time, meaning that Steve never actually went back in time in his own timeline, he went to a new timeline.
This Peggy carter is an entirely different Peggy Carter and by going back in time, to a different timeline he just screwed with a different timeline and the TVA would have to go back and fix that. ( unfortunately they didn't think that through)
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According to the writers,
However, rather than this being an alternate reality, Endgame's writers have said they believe this was merely closing the loop and Steve had always been married to Peggy, referencing what we saw on screen in Captain America: The Winter Soldier.

"It was always our intention that he was the father of those two children. But again, there are time travel loopholes for that," Endgame writer Stephen McFeely told The Hollywood Reporter.
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Personally, I think that's bullshit, they never intended that until they wrote Endgame. If it was something they were planning for that long, then the time travel plot probably wouldn't have been an 11th hour ass pull. Plus, if it was their intention, it makes them trying to set up Steve with Sharon even creepier.
 
Having grown up with pic related, I had always grown up believing Cap x Widow was, for lack of a better word, endgame
1000064573.webp

(Front and center is their son James)
 
Honka Honka Burning Love said:
Every single character's arc was fucked by Endgame.

Endgame is a terrible fucking movie.
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I hate endgame because Thanos did nothing wrong in Infinity War.

And they killed him because he looked like the good guy.

King Metalia said:
Professor Hulk. Aka the version of Hulk no one likes.
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I'm guessing because they didn't think of introducing Reed Richards to handle the time travel stuff.
 
MrJokerRager said:
I hate endgame because Thanos did nothing wrong in Infinity War.
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This is stupid.

Even if you took his "Resource Scarcity" at face value (which for a Galaxy Spanning empire like we see in GOTG is..not a thing in the way we understand it, Gamora's people are NOT fucking starving to death unless Thanos invaded them before First Contact) his solution was actually fucking retarded.
 
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