Marvel Cinematic Universe

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SherlockMexicano said:
No. I do mean Wolverine. Besides Christians sin all the time and they are flawed too like any other human being. So that is accurate.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=3-K94kdbTS8
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You linked the ending of the Nightcrawler episode with Nightcrawler handing Wolverine a bible as the opening to the video link and ends with him doing some one off praying in a church. What exactly about that means Wolverine is a devout Christian of any denomination?

Yes, they do sin. But a devout Christian would actually have personal issues about that. Wolverine in the show is depicted as someone with an extensive amount of demons who does in one episode (the one you linked) turn to God as a possible source of comfort and stability and might even have other aspects of faith to him from then on. But that is not a focus and I cannot even recall specific examples of him praying elsewhere outside of that one episode or any trappings of faith. His lust for another man's wife is not examined in a manner where it contrasts against a Christian lifestyle either which would be a fairly major thing for a devout Christian.
 
Michael Wade said:
Im getting he-man vibes and that saddens me. The voices they got actually sound good. Ray chase is legit bringing it.

Morph could theoretically work... If they don't draw too much attention to it, he does look more like the comic version. I don't trust them though.
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Oh I wouldn't compare it to He-Man at all, that was just a bait and switch. Here you now what to expect from the get-go.
 
Morethanabitfoolish said:
You linked the ending of the Nightcrawler episode with Nightcrawler handing Wolverine a bible as the opening to the video link and ends with him doing some one off praying in a church. What exactly about that means Wolverine is a devout Christian of any denomination?

Yes, they do sin. But a devout Christian would actually have personal issues about that. Wolverine in the show is depicted as someone with an extensive amount of demons who does in one episode (the one you linked) turn to God as a possible source of comfort and stability and might even have other aspects of faith to him from then on. But that is not a focus and I cannot even recall specific examples of him praying elsewhere outside of that one episode or any trappings of faith. His lust for another man's wife is not examined in a manner where it contrasts against a Christian lifestyle either which would be a fairly major thing for a devout Christian.
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Because this is not veggies tales. This is the X-Men. This was a cartoon for kids of all backgrounds during the 90's. This is not your local church sermon.Whoever made this show wasn't trying to make a Christian show. They just wanted to have a Christian character. That's it


This is so obvious I can't believe I have to explain it.
 
SherlockMexicano said:
Because this is not veggies tales. This is X-Men. This was a cartoon for kids during the 90's not your local church sermon.Whoever made this show wasn't trying to make a Christian show. They just wanted to have a Christian character. That's it


This is so obvious I can't believe I have to explain it.
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As opposed to the entire episode you linked a clip from which did feature a devout Christian character of the turn the other cheek variety?

Okay then. Find the other clips of Wolverine being a devout Christian in this universe since that was your claim.
 
Morethanabitfoolish said:
Okay then. Find the other clips of Wolverine being a devout Christian in this universe since that was your claim.
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Of course. After you understand the concept that a character can be a Christian and still be a flawed human being. And that a show that is not catered to christians specifically will not end in prayer and bible quotes every episode.

Until then you will have to deal with me not googling YouTube clips for you I guess.
 
I love the X-Men. I always have. The X-Men when it's good has the perfect balance of soap opera bullshit, superhero/sci fi, and social commentary. however in the modern world, it can't work. social commentary has been dead for a decade. we get social pandering. we cannot have ideologically different people having conflicts without it being cut and dry black and white one is pure evil and intolerant.

I don't mind when the X-Men have faggot shit or racial shit going on. They're supposed to be the weirdos and outcasts who want acceptance. However, the beauty of the X-Men is you can ALWAYS make new characters to tackle these things. It's the nature of the concept of a school of freaks! I don't give a shit about Morph and I won't pretend to, but why does he have to be a faggot when you could make up a new dude with his same powers and nobody would care?

Again I'm fine with a lot of the shit I complain about in other superhero stuff in the X-Men. However, the Mutants weren't created to be the progressive left's political super powered sandbox. The mutants are supposed umbrella ALL the outcasts from every side. whether it's race, sex, religion, whatever. they're all societies 'looked down upon' joining together to essentially have a colorless society and be accepted and nothing else. not argue they're right and shove it up your ass with superiority. that's Magneto & the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. It's in their fucking name: EVIL MUTANTS. The difference is their smug superiority, whereas the X-Men when they're handled right are about tolerance and equality nothing more, nothing less.

It's our current CRT-brained society where the more oppressed you are the better you are as a person, your actions are irrelevant because you deserve to be a prick because of oppression bullshit why the X-Men can't work anymore. Instead of the goal being color blindness in the metaphor the goal is hyper awareness and pandering to color/sex/whatever. Instead of fighting for people to be treated equally, the X-Men will fight for normal people to feel like shit for being born the way they were as if they could help it and for them to coddle those born differently as if they chose a higher moral ground in the circumstances of their birth.
 
IDanceonTrannyGraves said:
Pedro Pascal for Reed is the worst possible decision they could have made.
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Probably. But they could have cast the same guy as the one who played him last time. Now that was bad.
Mayor Cody Travers said:
I'm shocked none of the FF are dark-skinned.

Otherwise, it looks like they've made the mistake of going the Wonder Woman route with the Four making them "period piece" superheroes: I find it an uncomfortable thought that people subconsciously think certain heroes work only in the past. The FF were explicitly THE superhero, modernized: not just the technology and sense of wonder, but as less-than-perfect personalities, people with flaws.

I mean. It just feels.... off having major A-list heroes and teams regulated to the "past" in a given timeline and lose valuable connections/interactions for them and the rest of their universe alike. What makes the FF hard to modernize? If it's their technology, surely Ant-Man and Iron Man had the same issues yet no one had issues with THEM living in the present-day. Wonder Woman being associated with mythology and debuting in WW2 means she shouldn't be stuck in or "workable" only in World War days, Thor's supposed to be the literal thunder god and no one has a problem that he began his explicit superhero career at the same time the rest of Marvel's main heroes, so why can't Wondy first pop up in-universe with her basic origin (tweak it slightly if need be, I get it) to join the other DC heroes in their early days?
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I think it could work with them starting off in the past. The reason is that Reed Richards is such a big deal scientifically that he'd be conspicuous by his absence in everything so far if he was there all along. So have him and the others disappear off into Space or another dimension back in whenever this is set and then return in the current day. It's the most reasonable way of explaining why he wasn't a factor in any of the world threatening events so far. I mean, delaying their getting their powers works for keeping the rest of them off-screen during all the events but Reed's powers are a distinct second to his sheer intellect. Smarter than Stark, smarter than Pym. His absence has to be addressed somehow.

The Token Ethnic said:
Did they really skip casting Jim from The Office just to appease their quota? I get that Pascal is contractually obligated to Disney/Star Wars, but knowing how these movies are, he's going to be a spineless character who relies on Sue for everything.

The X-Men '97 trailer just came out:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=pv3Ss8o9gGQ
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I am doubtful but will give it a fair try.

SherlockMexicano said:
Fun fact: Wolverine is a devout Christian in this universe. Who wants to bet they made an episode with him becoming an atheist and denouncing God?

Because of course. The only good religion is wokeness, and “the message” is the only gospel allowed. There’s is no way they are going to respect that Kind of diversity.
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I was going to reply and say "do you perhaps mean Nightcrawler" but I see you're already having an argument with somebody over it. I can't see any normal interpretation of Wolverine as a practising Christian. What's the source on this? Did the showrunners say this publicly somewhere? I'll agree that if they do, it will be a temporary starting thing. But the greater question is how will they deal with Kurt's devout Christianity. Even X2 included this. If they scrap it then he's not the same character.
 
Overly Serious said:
I was going to reply and say "do you perhaps mean Nightcrawler" but I see you're already having an argument with somebody over it. I can't see any normal interpretation of Wolverine as a practising Christian. What's the source on this? Did the showrunners say this publicly somewhere?
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If that clip I posted of Wolverine literally holding a bible, praying inside a church, and referring to the Cristian God as "Lord" doesn't convince you then there's nothing I can say that will convince you.

I will leave it there, and I suppose we will have to disagree and move on.
 
@Hembruh For me, the X-Men concept has always had a fundamental problem which is they exist in a world where there are hundred other sources of superpowers and superpowered individuals that don't have the same prejudice against them. Now people come up with rationalisations for that and believe me I've heard them all. They're mutations that could happen to anybody, it's different because blah, you don't know if someone's a mutant or not, et al. None of the rationalisations have ever worked for me. This dudes a literal alien, this one is powered by sorcery, that one has spider DNA in him but he's still human and the X-man who literally has a gene that you also may have but which is now active - well he's a scary non-human mutation. And so on.

The X-men in their own universe the prejudice themes can work. Put them alongside avengers and the fantastic four and She-Hulk and it's just not consistent for me. And don't tell me "prejudice isn't consistent" because that never worked for me either.

I can overlook it and enjoy some X-Men media. But it's always been a weird disconnect for me and if they bring them into the MCU that's going to kick in full-force unless they work overtime to make Mutants more sinister to people somehow.
 
SherlockMexicano said:
If that clip I posted of Wolverine literally holding a bible, praying inside a church, and referring to the Cristian God as "Lord" doesn't convince you then there's nothing I can say that will convince you.

I will leave it there, and I suppose we will have to disagree and move on.
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Convince me of what? I don't need the clip. I've seen the whole episode. You said in this universe "Wolverine is a devout Christian in this universe" your words. I thought you meant they'd released something about this new series that said he was in it. If all you're going off is that at the end of the Nightcrawler episode there's a moment where he's moved enough by Kurt's words to take a moment and pray when he thinks nobody is looking, then you've a bonkers interpretation of "devout Christian".
 
Overly Serious said:
@Hembruh For me, the X-Men concept has always had a fundamental problem which is they exist in a world where there are hundred other sources of superpowers and superpowered individuals that don't have the same prejudice against them. Now people come up with rationalisations for that and believe me I've heard them all. They're mutations that could happen to anybody, it's different because blah, you don't know if someone's a mutant or not, et al. None of the rationalisations have ever worked for me. This dudes a literal alien, this one is powered by sorcery, that one has spider DNA in him but he's still human and the X-man who literally has a gene that you also may have but which is now active - well he's a scary non-human mutation. And so on.

The X-men in their own universe the prejudice themes can work. Put them alongside avengers and the fantastic four and She-Hulk and it's just not consistent for me. And don't tell me "prejudice isn't consistent" because that never worked for me either.

I can overlook it and enjoy some X-Men media. But it's always been a weird disconnect for me and if they bring them into the MCU that's going to kick in full-force unless they work overtime to make Mutants more sinister to people somehow.
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I agree. I've always preferred the X-Men to be in their own universe. That was something I thought worked in the original Ultimate Marvel universe where Spider-Man was getting shit because people thought he must have been a mutant and they hate them and the Avengers/Ultimates only didn't because they were artificial celebrities that the government positioned people to like and look at separately. I never wanted them in the main MCU for that reason instead a parallel universe or something. I'm willing to trade the novelty of seeing a WW2 Logan & Cap adventure for the Mutant concept to actually make sense and it doesn't unless it's the start of your Marvel universe a la Ultimates but even then the mileage kinda runs out if you build a massive superhero world after that but the mutants still get shit on.
 
Overly Serious said:
bonkers interpretation of "devout Christian
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For me a "devout christian" would be someone that has a sincere belief/ love of Jesus. Even if it's private. Not the bombastic, but ultimately shallow Mega church pastor types that make a big deal of their religion for show.

But I suppose some people measure "devotion" with how much religious rituals they do like prayer and the like.

Of course Wolverine is not Kurt. But it's obvious that he is a Christian and that he regained, at least some, of his faith thanks to him. It would be pure insanity to deny that was the point of that scene.

At best you can argue maybe devout is not accurate ( which I disagree). But the christian part definitely is.
 
SherlockMexicano said:
But I suppose some people measure "devotion" with how much religious rituals they do like prayer and the like.
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I was thinking more, you know, practicing Christian values. Like not continually trying it on with someone else's partner, not pursuing revenge, not committing copious violence (lethal too but probably toned down in this specific instance). And prayer isn't just some ritual thing - it's pretty central to Christian belief. I don't know of anyone I would call a devout Christian who doesn't pray routinely.
 
Overly Serious said:
I was thinking more, you know, practicing Christian values. Like not continually trying it on with someone else's partner, not pursuing revenge, not committing copious violence (lethal too but probably toned down in this specific instance). And prayer isn't just some ritual thing - it's pretty central to Christian belief. I don't know of anyone I would call a devout Christian who doesn't pray routinely.
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I mean I am not going to turn this into a religious debate, so I will say the obvious real life explanation. This is an action superhero show aimed at kids in the 90’s.

A lot of the superheroes have religions, they just don’t bring them up because this is not a Christian show. For instance Kitty Pryde is Jewish, and that barely came up in that other X-men show. We don’t know how much they pray off screen because its simply not plot relevant.

They are obviously not going to follow every Christian denomination interpretation of Christianity. It varies wildly. Some Christian’s are ok with violence, Others are not etc.. Maybe the “devout“ part is debatable, but pretending that what he did wasn’t mean to show him as a Christian is just being blind.

He literally prayed to God inside a Christian church While holding a bible.
 
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