Marvel Cinematic Universe

[The handsome tard]

They chose her simply because she checked all of their diversity boxes. They didn't have any Injun or disabled characters in the MCU so they dug up this literal who and gave her a shitty show for some Blackrock/ESG money.

I reaaaally think this was greenlit during Disney's arrogant (more than usual) phase where they thought anything they shit on Disney Plus would sell. After She-Hulk was a huge flop and the best their stuff got was Loki (which is not saying much), Disney kind of is starting to panic and seems to be trying to slow down the production of these shows down but Echo is one of those that already went beyond the point of no return so it HAS to come out, them liking it or not.
Its similar to Warner and the remaining DC movies of the Snyderverse, they absolutely dont matter anymore since its all gonna be rebooted but they GOTTA contractually be released.

Funnily enough, they actually did premiere a brand-new Native American hero like a week or two before Echo dropped. She's not a deep character or anything, but she was much more entertaining on the whole.

Native American representation peaked with these two

EDIT: Huh, a smart writer (so we know it isn't happening) could recontextualize Tony Stark into the real villain, actually. It was his hoarding of technology and support for the US government to dox superheroes that created a Deus Ex world where the only legal cyborgs and other meta humans allowed have to work for the US government. All for the sake of virtue signaling that Stark was the one brave hero to dox himself. And because the governments of the world are routinely subverted by Hydra or Black Widows or whomever else, the average life of the MCU citizen is actually terrible relative to the magic technology the government possesses.

To be fair, the MCU take of Civil War had to change a lot from the source material to keep Tony relatively likable during it because his comic book counterpart does horrible things that dont just make him a villain because he is suppose to still be seen by the plot as a good guy. In fact, I dare say that the MCU cherry picked Stark's best qualities while keeping his bad ones at minimum when possible because it would be way harder to get away with his worst moments and still be possible for the audience to be invested in him. Its actually kind of funny seeing his almost Uncle Ben like relationship with Peter in the movies knowing how badly their relationship ends up in the comics*.

*

Spoiler: Comic Book tism of Civil War

Peter finds out Stark made a prison for HEROES AND META HUMANS (not even villanous ones) for the government where they are treated inhumanely, on no legal basis. He understandably gets pissed about it with Stark, the latter doesnt deny it and reaffirms how "necessary" this all is. Peter declares he wont stand by his side anymore, Tony takes this as a threat and they fight, with Stark revealing that the Spider-suit he gave Spidey was designed to turn on him if he ever switched sides (kind of implying he never cared or trusted Peter). Peter escapes with his old suit and Stark sends the Thunderbolts (aka, Marvel's Suicide Squad) after him, some of these villains of which Peter fought before and are no doubt ready to get revenge, especially now that Peter publically revealed his identity (again, Stark's idea). Peter is nearly killed until he is narrowly saved by The Punisher. He goes into hiding with Aunt may and Mary Jane but some assassins track him down and nearly kill May and thus begins the events of "One More Day" (the most popular Spiderman story ever).

All of it is indirectly Tony Stark's fault

Oh yeah, and he also made a robot/clone replica of the dead-at-the-time Thor. That too.

There were some obvious retcons to try to salvage his character but you really get the sense the damage was done and Stark's popularity doesnt really recover (if anything, the comics took a sick pleasure in bring Stark down a peg like with him getting the shit beaten out him, then humiliated in World War Hulk) until the first Iron man movie

 

[Uranus Pink]

Stark was always the hero until the in real life 21th Century rolled in. As the first two Iron Man movies are based on vintage Marvel's storylines. Marvel comics Civil War was a total and complete character assassination of Stark.

 

[Nick Obre]

Man. If only they had a Native American character missing a leg within Marvel comics that's been in three different cartoons over the last thirty years and could be another bridge to introduce mutants into the MCU.

Yeah but Forge is not a woman so they can't use him to woman woman woman

 

[robobobo]

Civil War and One More Day basically ended my relationship with Marvel comics. They were just irredeemably retarded and the fault of higher-ups in the company instead of just one shitty writer who could be hand-waved away.

 

[StevieLasVegas]

I didn't mind Civil War, but One More Day was the drizzling shits. Fuck Quesada for pushing that story

 

[The handsome tard]

Civil War and One More Day basically ended my relationship with Marvel comics. They were just irredeemably retarded and the fault of higher-ups in the company instead of just one shitty writer who could be hand-waved away.

I didn't mind Civil War, but One More Day was the drizzling shits. Fuck Quesada for pushing that story

It all came from a mixture of writing themselves into a corner and wanting the status quo restored. It was marvel admitting that Peter went too far on the development lane and it's time to "pull back". It was the confirmation of the existential nature of comic book characters with no established endings and with floating timelines, that eventually they will be forced to return to where they started. Peter grew up and ironically the higher ups saw that as not being "spiderman" enough. He was married and about to become a father so they had to make a story so blatant over selling out the future for the sake of an aging past almost to make it clear to not expect things to ever reach this level ever again or else expect something like it to happen again (like Peter getting cucked by a writer self insert).

Edit: the whole "writers want to torture peter" is a meme but it's hardly false with them wanting to humiliate him and make him seem unfit to be spiderman (even tho he is the title character since the fucking 60's) and thus offering woke replacements for him like Miles Morales (the spiderverse movies and the ps4 game make it clear he is the "superior" spiderman)

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

It all came from a mixture of writing themselves into a corner and wanting the status quo restored. It was marvel admitting that Peter went too far on the development lane and it's time to "pull back". It was the confirmation of the existential nature of comic book characters with no established endings and with floating timelines, that eventually they will be forced to return to where they started. Peter grew up and ironically the higher ups saw that as not being "spiderman" enough. He was married and about to become a father so they had to make a story so blatant over selling out the future for the sake of an aging past almost to make it clear to not expect things to ever reach this level ever again or else expect something like it to happen again (like Peter getting cucked by a writer self insert).

Edit: the whole "writers want to torture peter" is a meme but it's hardly false with them wanting to humiliate him and make him seem unfit to be spiderman (even tho he is the title character since the fucking 60's) and thus offering woke replacements for him like Miles Morales (the spiderverse movies and the ps4 game make it clear he is the "superior" spiderman)

In general a big issue with comics is that they were written to post ww2 cold war era. Writers constantly need to update the setting to make it contemporary but it fucks with the entire point of the characters. The worse is Magneto, who should be at least 80 year old if he was a child during the holocaust, which is way too fucking old. The current solution is wholesale replacing the characters while not moving from present day, so you don't even give the original characters any sort of ending.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

In general a big issue with comics is that they were written to post ww2 cold war era. Writers constantly need to update the setting to make it contemporary but it fucks with the entire point of the characters. The worse is Magneto, who should be at least 80 year old if he was a child during the holocaust, which is way too fucking old. The current solution is wholesale replacing the characters while not moving from present day, so you don't even give the original characters any sort of ending.

Lil' Magneto using his powers in the middle of The Killing Fields as his family gets Khmer Rouge-ed could make for some really dank shovel gore

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Lil' Magneto using his powers in the middle of The Killing Fields as his family gets Khmer Rouge-ed could make for some really dank shovel gore

I wouldn't be surprised if he got retconned to replace Hitler with Pinochet. Will at least make a funny shitstorm

 

[The handsome tard]

In general a big issue with comics is that they were written to post ww2 cold war era. Writers constantly need to update the setting to make it contemporary but it fucks with the entire point of the characters. The worse is Magneto, who should be at least 80 year old if he was a child during the holocaust, which is way too fucking old. The current solution is wholesale replacing the characters while not moving from present day, so you don't even give the original characters any sort of ending.

I'd assume that present day Magneto either wasnt born during the holocaust (like maybe his Ultimate counterpart? Idk, its been a while and Im not looking it up) or he has slowed down aging like a couple of mutants.

Edit: Then again, even past versions of Magneto had him relatively old but still freaking built like a tank. Guess the reason is "magnetism" or something...

 

[Peaches the Wonder Cat]

Just make Magneto a tranny, he can be born in Florida or Texas, and xis superpowers come from the homemade troon juice he made following instructions on the Internet.

 

[Nobunaga]

Jewish metal man is a fucking capeshit hero, just give the excuse that his powers allow him to control the iron in his body and that allows him to live longer or something and never expand on it.
Don't understand this infactuaction that fucking magic needs to be explained with science for some reason

 

[Uranus Pink]

It been shown and told in the comics he does have control at the (sub)atomic level back in the 1990ies. Most major visually confirmed feat of it was him completely pulling out all of Wolverine's Adamantium skeleton and claws.

 

[Salt_Merchant]

Jewish metal man is a fucking capeshit hero, just give the excuse that his powers allow him to control the iron in his body and that allows him to live longer or something and never expand on it.

They have literal wizards

you can literally just say a wizard did it lol

 

[Overly Serious]

Don't understand this infactuaction that fucking magic needs to be explained with science for some reason

This reminds me of a quote which I shall horribly garble because I can't recall the source and can't look it up. But it's something like this: "The adult doesn't understand how Superman can fly but any child knows the reason: Because it's not real".

The original quote might have been dragons, I'm not sure. In any case, the older people get the more they tend to want things to make perfect sense and all fit together with what else they know. As a rule, you can add all sorts of fantastical things so long as it is internally consistent. That's why Harry Potter is a setting more for kids - because the way its magic works is filled with all sort of self-contradiction and inconsistencies with itself and with the world around it. This is not to say kids don't love consistency when it's in the form of recurrent motifs. Tell a kid a little story about a man running from a bear, climbing a hill, getting in a canoe, paddling furiously across a lake to a little island with a little house and running inside. "And what do you think was in the house?" "The BEAR!". The child is delighted. An earlier element of the story has suddenly come around. But an adult needs more than a simple pattern, they need a complex pattern. They need to know how the bear could get ahead of them. An older child needs to see the bear in the speedboat, with the motorcycle helmet racing ahead of the man whilst he's running in the woods. Otherwise they'll ask "how did the bear get there?"

And by the time you're an adult, you're saying: "So if the bear can pilot a speedboat and moor it, it must have a pretty high level of intelligence and is self-aware so it will know that it's eating another sentient being. Which in a way makes the bear cannibalistic and evil." The delight is gone. Or if not gone, has a far higher standard to achieve. So much more has to fit together to make an adult believe in something.

There are a hundred easy ways in the Marvel universe to make Magneto older and still hale and hearty. But it's a thread that starts to pull other things with it. Xavier and Magneto were around the same age. Will their dynamic change as one gets increasingly older than the other? What about other interactions that Magneto had? The problem isn't so much that they can't give him longevity. The problem is a general one, not specific to Magneto. It's that they want to try and keep everything in the same continuity and consistent and that means giving up beloved versions of the character. It's not a square you can circle as seen from the reaction to One More Day.

 

[Sniperwoof]

Arguements about technology are retarded in a setting in which literal magic exists.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

I want to specify that it's not just that the character is old, is that it is based on a conflict that is 80 years old now. At some point (if not already) it will be just a parody of itself - "this event happened to me a century ago and I will make sure it will not happen again".

 

[Overly Serious]

Arguements about technology are retarded in a setting in which literal magic exists.

They are not - if the argument is one of internal consistency. So an argument about whether or not Iron Man can effectively cool the reactor in his chest is probably not a great argument (but could be very educational when people get into the why not physics of it all). But an argument about why most people's technology is the same as ours whilst Iron Man has hand-held reactors, personal repulsor jets and Richard Reed is building teleports, is an entirely legitimate thing to debate. The difference is that the former is a conceit of the setting. The latter a thing that makes the setting less immersive.

I can more easily suspend my disbelief on something like "teleportation exists" than I can on "teleportation exists and the military doesn't try to use it".

I want to specify that it's not just that the character is old, is that it is based on a conflict that is 80 years old now. At some point (if not already) it will be just a parody of itself - "this event happened to me a century ago and I will make sure it will not happen again".

Ah, but don't you know? Nazis are still here. Half the country is Nazis and voted for someone who is the next Hitler... They will never get tired of using Nazis because the Nazis were nationalistic and they must never stop equating nationalism with genocide.

A little bit of a reach but there's a company called Big Finish that does audio dramas including ones for Doctor Who. Some of them are very good and one (which got sort-of adapted into the Ninth Doctor episode "Dalek") takes place on Earth about 100+ years after Daleks occupied Earth. Daleks have become this kind of frothing cartoon villain for them. They have action movies of people fighting Daleks, toy Daleks for kids to have their toy soldiers shoot at, etc. And the government uses them as its evil threat they defeated to show how they'er the good guys. The point of the story is why I mention it - it's about how people trivialise and re-purpose real villainy and tragedy for their own purposes. They might have to re-invent Magneto because of the age thing. But I think it's to think they're going to retire Nazis as their go-to villains any time soon. They're more likely to shelve Nazis because Ukranian militias are wearing swastikas than anything to do with how long it's been.

 

[starborn427614]

Stunt/action guy for Netflix Daredevil is back for Born Again. I seem to recall there was some controversy about them not even bothering to consult him, so I guess Feige got tired of taking L's over the last few MCU entries and actually did something the fans want for a change.

 

[dick brain]

Echo uses native woman magic

Ah fuck off.

I was actually looking forward to this one, relatively speaking. I love street level heroes, especially the ones that are just regular people who are autistically good at something because they worked hard at it, as opposed to people who were born special or had something handed to them by chance. I like characters who are capable in spite of a disability, characters who play the hand they're dealt and still choose to do good even though the world isn't fair. I have zero issue with Marvel casting a deaf native woman to play a deaf native woman, especially an established character they didn't just pull out of their ass; that's a million times better than changing the race and sex of established characters to meet a quota, and it's a cool way to give the real life actress work.

She was just fine in Hawkeye as a knockoff Cass Cain, why did they have to fuck with it? Why the fuck does everything have to be magic or aliens or alien magic? Why does everyone have to be special? Why can't I have characters who are relevant because they worked hard to be good at things?