Marvel Cinematic Universe

[ShitLurker]

I don't even believe that Thunderbolts even work in the MCU because they come off as a discount-brand Suicide Squad. Some may argue otherwise, but I long held the belief that the team had the greatest impact with its original premise: the Masters of Evil masquerading as superheroes in a bid for world domination. It was only possible due to the fact that the Fantastic Four and Avengers were presumed dead after the 1996 Onslaught crossover, which made the public receptive to these new defenders. Those conditions don't really exist in the MCU and neither do many of the characters that made it interesting like Moonstone, Songbird, and MACH-1.

Agreed, I read the original Thunderbolts run and it was great, because it was all a con, specially when they have Jolt join in who isn't in on it and now they suddenly are more squeamish about the whole thing, specially with half the team enjoying being heroes instead of sticking with the plan. But once the jig was up? There is zero appeal. How is the movie even going to set them up? Again, no Baron Zemo, who can you even sub in as a Citizen V/villain mastermind sub? And well, this loses impact when it's all new characters, so if they could recycle characters from other movies and dump them in there it could become something kind of workable, but what rogues are not dead by the end of the picture and aren't wet noodles? Only one I can think of is Vulture which has a real actor behind him but using him for something like Thunderbolts stops him from a hypothetical sinister six that seems to never take shape.

 

[IDanceonTrannyGraves]

Pulling off Doom would require top-notch casting. Guy needs to be able to be completely over the top while not coming across as a buffoon, or else he won't seem like any sort of real threat. Dafoe was an inspired choice for Goblin because the man is a master at doing batshit crazy, I honestly don't know who could make Doom work.

Henry Cavill but he'll never do it.

 

[SecretMagicalGirl]

If there’s something phase 4 taught me is that Kevin Feige was massively overrated,

I feel bad because I also bought the hype and the propaganda that all Marvel’s success was thanks to him. But the evidence doesn’t lie. The drop in quality wasn’t even gradual As you would suspect from a burn out creator,

As soon as Endgame ended Marvel movies stopped being about adapting the comics And they started to do unwatchable garbage like She-Hulk. It’s like night and day. As if as soon as he got full control everything got worse.

I am starting to supect that as nasty as Isaac Perlmutter presumably was, he had a bigger role tard wrangling than what they lead us to believe. He tried some stupid stunts like trying to fire Robert Downey Jr. But The guy did prioritize earning money by pleasing the audience instead of pandering with woke shit for one.

​

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

Kevin Fagy drank the kool aid that Iron Man, Captain America and Thor were C or even D level heroes *nobody* cared about and somehow he made people love them, and that the "Marvel" name could sell things alone (which is asinine when you look at how horrible comic sales had been even with the MCU at it's height).

I've always hated that story, and only ever saw it said by retards who got into the MCU because it was a fad. Even though Spider-Man and X-Men were top dog, Captain America, Iron Man, Thor and the name "Avengers" would always pop up in Spider-Man/X-Men media enough that the public conscious was aware of them and liked them. They were featured in video games as well. That's not even getting into how they are just cool characters based on their "thing" alone.

The whole "nobody even know who they were" argument is much better made for Blade, where most people didn't seem to realize it was a comic property and simply enjoyed the film because it was a cool character in a cool movie played by a cool actor. Which just goes to show that maybe they should have focused on cool character and making cool movies instead of shit like Shang Chi and Eternals.

 

[Jetpack Himmler]

I've always hated that story, and only ever saw it said by retards who got into the MCU because it was a fad. Even though Spider-Man and X-Men were top dog, Captain America, Iron Man, Thor and the name "Avengers" would always pop up in Spider-Man/X-Men media enough that the public conscious was aware of them and liked them. They were featured in video games as well. That's not even getting into how they are just cool characters based on their "thing" alone.

Iron Man even had his own animated series in the nineties alongside the Fantastic Four. While their first seasons were terrible in terms of story and animation quality, the second seasons were vast improvements with Iron Man having a story arc. He would later appear in Spider-Man: The Animated Series alongside War Machine so kids who watched the show would have an idea who they were. Captain America also appeared later in the series (and X-Men) while Thor voicelessly cameoed in X-Men and had a speaking guest role on Fantastic Four.

It's worth noting that Blade himself guest-starred on Spider-Man while the film was (presumably) in development. The Marvel Animated Universe of the nineties was surprisingly chock full of cameos.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

Iron Man even had his own animated series in the nineties alongside the Fantastic Four. While their first seasons were terrible in terms of story and animation quality, the second seasons were vast improvements with Iron Man having a story arc. He would later appear in Spider-Man: The Animated Series alongside War Machine so kids who watched the show would have an idea who they were. Captain America also appeared later in the series (and X-Men) while Thor voicelessly cameoed in X-Men and had a speaking guest role on Fantastic Four.

It's worth noting that Blade himself guest-starred on Spider-Man while the film was (presumably) in development. The Marvel Animated Universe of the nineties was surprisingly chock full of cameos.

iirc there was some attempt at keeping the same VAs, too, like I think I saw how David (Solid Snake) Hayter was Cap in most 90s appearances?
I still say that _not_ having access to Spidey and X-Men ended up being the biggest boon to MCU starting out, it forced them to move beyond the easy ideas (that were a lot more in their own respective bubbles, too).

 

[Jetpack Himmler]

iirc there was some attempt at keeping the same VAs, too, like I think I saw how David (Solid Snake) Hayter was Cap in most 90s appearances?

Lawrence Bayne voiced Captain America on X-Men, but that production used Canadian voice talent to keep costs down. Spider-Man: TAS also replaced the voice cast for the Fantastic Four, except for Quinton Flynn who returned as Johnny Storm/Human Torch the the Secret Wars episodes.

However, Robert Hays and James Avery (AKA Uncle Phil) reprised their roles as Iron Man and War Machine while John Rhys-Davies voiced Thor on Fantastic Four.

 

[SecretMagicalGirl]

Theres a grain of truth in that The avengers were not very popular outside of comics. But I would argue a big part of it was that DC was just better at making popular adaptations, while Marvel struggled outside of Spider-man and the X-men.

Tough Kevin Feige would be delusional if he thinks people liked them thanks to him because the hard work had already been done by incredibly talented people, like Jack Kirby, and all he did was adapt something that was already good and made it easily accessible to the masses.

And argument could be made with Guardians of The Galaxy being unrecognizable from the comics version at the time. But I would still credit James Gunn for the changes over him for that.

Now things like the Eternals or Shang Chi were massively unpopular even for comic fans. And there’s a reason for that, they were terrible. He needed more than brand recognition to save them, but arrogance blinded him on that. And others like She-Hulk got a massive downgrade from the comics.

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

It's worth noting that Blade himself guest-starred on Spider-Man while the film was (presumably) in development. The Marvel Animated Universe of the nineties was surprisingly chock full of cameos.

This is literally the only reason I knew that Blade was a comic character as a kid. Otherwise I also would have just thought he was just a cool ass character in a cool movie and is basically the reason I know nobody else did because when 10 year old me would tell peopel this they'd be like "What? No, it's not a comic movie!"

 

[The Nothingness]

This is actually to their benefit.

Pay whoever the fuck played Taskmaster when the Mask was on, and just use an AI to voice the character. Never. Remove. The. Mask.

That way, you don't have to deal with some nigger who beats women or some faggot that fucks children fucking up all your plans while also staying (somewhat) true to the fucking character.

Watch them use an AI voice of a younger James Earl Jones because normies, who know nothing of Doctor Doom, will see a masked villain in armor and with a cape and say, "Hurr durr, he's like Darth Vader!"

Pulling off Doom would require top-notch casting. Guy needs to be able to be completely over the top while not coming across as a buffoon, or else he won't seem like any sort of real threat. Dafoe was an inspired choice for Goblin because the man is a master at doing batshit crazy, I honestly don't know who could make Doom work.

Henry Cavill but he'll never do it.

Unless he'll be reprising his role as Magneto due to multiverse shenanigans, Michael Fassbender could be a good choice.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

Pulling off Doom would require top-notch casting. Guy needs to be able to be completely over the top while not coming across as a buffoon, or else he won't seem like any sort of real threat. Dafoe was an inspired choice for Goblin because the man is a master at doing batshit crazy, I honestly don't know who could make Doom work.

I think someone with the acting chops like Ralph Fiennes could pull it off. But I'm unsure about the physicality.

 

[starborn427614]

If he were still with us, Raul Julia could've pulled off Doom. His take on Bison just needs a bit of tweaking and it's basically there already.

 

[BetterFuckChuck]

First trailer for Echo is out. Had no idea it's the MCU's first TV-MA project.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=AFUKnherhuw

is her power that as a black woman she breaks the sound barrier?

 

[ShitLurker]

is her power that as a black woman she breaks the sound barrier?

She's black and deaf, what more do you want? I can't wait for her to be chief of cyber security purely on being a diversity hire and how hard it is to do this while BLACK a WOMAN and DEAF while also being a Dlist superhero that nobody gives a shit about.

This will surely save Marvel and not be another money pit.

 

[Get the rope Macaulay!]

for $71 BILLION

in hindsight and honestly foresight that was a terrible move, at least with the star wars sale they could theoretically profit by the time the trilogy is done, no way in hell does xmen, Simpsons, Family guy, or FF merch sell enough for that to be worth it. even if you assume 3.5 billion per year in merch that doesn't factor in real profit and how long it takes to make new content. would have been better off having the same deal as they do with spiderman and sony.

he had a bigger role tard wrangling than what they lead us to believe.

just from the articles that have come out about the current state of affairs Ike

1. convinced people to recast the war machine role rather than give in to terrance, which probably helped squash salary negotiations for the rest of the franchise
2. made sure captain america was set in ww2 instead of in the modern day (how the fuck would that have even worked?) like the rest of the group wanted
3. Separated the tv and film divisions, which ultimately led to to the tv part dying on the vine but at least prevented the fuck up we're seeing now of audiences assuming they need to watch the series to get the movie
4. Was ultimately right about his feelings on women in the starring or villian roles* and despite that costing him a lot of his power, years later disney's entire series of flops proved him right and are why R.igger is now barely holding onto his job by a thread and might end up getting kicked out like Eisner.

Even the way the articles about Kevin Faggy have been written this year its obvious heads will roll somewhere else, Victoria can't be the only sacrifice. the flop coming out next week will lead to a mass culling, i'd genuinely be surprised if any post-2019 MCU people will still be involved, They might as well announce everything beyond CA4 is off the schedule. Kevin will have to downsize the whole franchise, the unionized CGI guys will make their entire business model obsolete. they need to figure out how to do superhero movies either cheaply or plan ahead. No more "we'll fix it in post". Between the strike and the lack of box office hits Kevin's better off wiping everything off the board and going "we're starting semi-fresh with a FF reboot for 2025 and Xmen in 2026. Let the tv division play out a bit more but have shit fade away a bit.

*if you ever read the comments on anything involving Jurassic world every fucking time people bring up the woman's gruesome death by dinosaurs, it doesn't matter that the actress was hyped as shit for it and wanted them to make it even more gory or that the director purposely did it to illustrate that there were no "only men are allowed to be killed" rules this time around to heighten the danger. Western audiences especially can not tolerate seeing a woman get hurt, which would destroy the characters reputation if a male hero punched a woman villian in the face or vice versa. For fucks sake the X-men got shit in 2016 because the posters showed the villian choking a superheroine. Even if black widow came out in the 2010s, it would have probably flopped, hell we can see full proof of captain marvel probably being a flop too without that expectation of needing to see it to understand endgame.

 

[King Dead]

What you're saying could've worked if they made another "phase" or two of movies between Infinity War and Endgame. There was an opportunity to show how different everything was after the snap, maybe even show some positives to it, new status quo, new heroes and villains. Could've had your Thunderbolts/Masters of Evil there, stepping up to dominate what was left of the world, while surviving Avengers are moping and licking their wounds.
Instead everything got reversed immediately in the next movie, whoop-dee-fucking-doo.

I mean, technically they still could set a movie in the five-year gap between the two, but then you run into the same issue as every other movie set in the past: "why did nothing else reference these events?" Plugging in some major happening into the timeline causes plot holes like those, most notably the whole "why didn't [x] help out during [y]?" question that pops up repeatedly.

Infinity War's downer ending was fine, but even at the time I knew it rang hollow because of course it's all going to get reversed by the end of Endgame. I almost had to roll my eyes at Black Panther getting dusted, my first thought being "haha no way in fucking hell will Disney let the black savior be permanently dead." I don't see how anyone actually got fooled into thinking that all those deaths wouldn't immediately be undone, unless they were legitimately retarded and didn't know how comic books work.

 

[Quarterback Rex Grossman]

is her power that as a black woman she breaks the sound barrier?

Just looked it up, peg leg's a Mohican/Menominee mutt from Wisconsin playing a Choctaw from Oklahoma (the white Choctaws with blonde hair and blue eyes). Wikipedia seems to be saying the character is just a generic Native in the book, so I guess the powerful female director is Choctaw.

This is what the comic version looks like btw:

There was a leak a few months back that said she's going to have tribal tats that charge up and let her shoot psychic laser energy or something, I'm guessing because a fat chick with one leg can't fight very well and it would be ableist to have a two-legged stuntwoman do it for her.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Infinity War's downer ending was fine, but even at the time I knew it rang hollow because of course it's all going to get reversed by the end of Endgame. I almost had to roll my eyes at Black Panther getting dusted, my first thought being "haha no way in fucking hell will Disney let the black savior be permanently dead." I don't see how anyone actually got fooled into thinking that all those deaths wouldn't immediately be undone, unless they were legitimately retarded and didn't know how comic books work.

They should have done it the other way around and dusted the legacy characters with Endgame being the relatively new characters (including future phase 4 ones) bringing most of the heroes back to life on their own. That would be more narratively appropriate (especially as the legacy characters already had their arcs end in their respective films) and worked better as passing the torch. Also would have had more stakes and wouldn't be 3 hours of circlejerking.

 

[Nick Obre]

in hindsight and honestly foresight that was a terrible move, at least with the star wars sale they could theoretically profit by the time the trilogy is done, no way in hell does xmen, Simpsons, Family guy, or FF merch sell enough for that to be worth it. even if you assume 3.5 billion per year in merch that doesn't factor in real profit and how long it takes to make new content. would have been better off having the same deal as they do with spiderman and sony.

My understanding is that it was much more about the sports channels, the larger catalog of movies and IPs, and the consolidation of power than just "get the X-Men back".

 

[Uranus Pink]

They should have done it the other way around and dusted the legacy characters with Endgame being the relatively new characters (including future phase 4 ones) bringing most of the heroes back to life on their own. That would be more narratively appropriate (especially as the legacy characters already had their arcs end in their respective films) and worked better as passing the torch. Also would have had more stakes and wouldn't be 3 hours of circlejerking.

One major problem is Phrase Three didn't introduced any new Phrase Four characters other than Captain Marvel. So there's no new generation for the torch to be passed on to from the older three generations.
FFS Thanos and his cannon fodder attacking Nova Prime could've been the start where the Phrase Four heroes can make their very late introductions trying to stop him.