Marvel Cinematic Universe

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wtfNeedSignUp said:
If I remember correctly the original Sam Raimy Spiderman films did his character perfectly with him being an asshole that would defend his workers when things actually matter.
Then the nu-Marvel had him be an Alex Jones ripoff for some reason.
The Insomniac games were especially bad with him being supposedly a stupid person because he constantly talks about it might not be a good idea to give an unknown person carte blanche with beating up random people and causing ton of damage in the process (seriously, fucking Power Puff Girls laughed at this 2 decades ago).
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But MCU Jameson failed at being Alex Jones by being on a monitor in Times Square and saying that Spiderman caused a terrorist attack, which everyone immediately believed.
 
Drag-on Knight 91873 said:
But MCU Jameson failed at being Alex Jones by being on a monitor in Times Square and saying that Spiderman caused a terrorist attack, which everyone immediately believed.
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I think they fundamentally misunderstand Alex Jones and think of him like he’s like Colbert or something.

I think most of the new writers don’t understand the power fantasy element of the characters nor secret identities. They really need a villain who is just meth addict with a grudge and superpowers. An unhinged maniac who is only alive because it’s illegal to kill him and special interest groups will fight beyond reason for them to avoid the death penalty.
Basically a reason why you don’t want to publically be a superhero.

I think J Jonah in the comics just hated the idea of giving masked vigilantes with no accountability public support. I remember reading the older ones as a kid and they almost have him bring up the Klan to the black editors unbearable son as to why it’s a bad idea for unaccountable vigilantes to be given free reign within society.

@MirrorNoir you’re the comics nigga, I right about any of this
 
HodgePodgeRogerDodger said:
I think they fundamentally misunderstand Alex Jones and think of him like he’s like Colbert or something.

I think most of the new writers don’t understand the power fantasy element of the characters nor secret identities. They really need a villain who is just meth addict with a grudge and superpowers. An unhinged maniac who is only alive because it’s illegal to kill him and special interest groups will fight beyond reason for them to avoid the death penalty.
Basically a reason why you don’t want to publically be a superhero.

I think J Jonah in the comics just hated the idea of giving masked vigilantes with no accountability public support. I remember reading the older ones as a kid and they almost have him bring up the Klan to the black editors unbearable son as to why it’s a bad idea for unaccountable vigilantes to be given free reign within society.

@MirrorNoir you’re the comics nigga, I right about any of this
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JJJ is all over the place in the comics as one writer will make him sympathetic and reasonable on all things but Spider-Man only for another writer to make JJJ an irredeemable asshole who's a bastard to everyone.

But in general, JJJ's hate for Spider-Man is rooted in deep seeded jealousy and envy over how Jonah sold out HARD to become the top guy running his own newspaper and how Spider-Man can make a difference in his actions while Jonah both has had to lower his journalistic integrity to make the Bugle profitable and to basically bend the knee to corrupt fucks in power and those like Kingpin, who in the Ultimate Marvel Universe, bought a major share of stock in the Bugle, not enough to control it outright but enough that he can make life hell for for Jonah and potentially oust him with help from other shareholders who only care about profits.

But most writers tend to offer their own take on the situation: One story implied that Jonah grew up a major Bucky/Cap fanboy in the 1940s and Bucky's death hit Jonah HARD; resulting in him being against having young kids like Peter as super-heroes. Another, implied that Spider-Man's early antics upstaged Jonah's son being announced as becoming an Astronaut and going into space and even though Peter saved John Jamesone's life when his shuttle crashed, that Jonah was livid that Spider-Man AGAIN upstaged his son even though John would be dead if not for Peter's intervention. And others have implied that Jonah's hate boner started purely as a means to make money (basically blood libeling Spider-Man to make money selling papers) and that it quickly turned into a real life feud when Peter started razzing Jonah as Spider-Man in public and private.

Then, IIRC, there is the 90s Spider-Man cartoon where Jonah is established as hating any man in a mask purely because his wife was murdered by a masked assassin who killed her in a failed attempt to kill him.
 
Drag-on Knight 91873 said:
But MCU Jameson failed at being Alex Jones by being on a monitor in Times Square and saying that Spiderman caused a terrorist attack, which everyone immediately believed.
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Pretty sure that's what Hollywood writers believe Alex Jones is capable of doing. The rule is that the "enemy" must be at the same time extremely powerful and influential but also pathetic, ridiculous and (sometimes literally) emasculated.
 
MirrorNoir said:
Then, IIRC, there is the 90s Spider-Man cartoon where Jonah is established as hating any man in a mask purely because his wife was murdered by a masked assassin who killed her in a failed attempt to kill him.
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This is the one I knew and I'm amazed that even though it's the most sensible by far it wasn't from the funny books.
 
During the old Lee & Ditko era Jonah originally hated Spider-Man due to Spidey upstaging his son. Later, Stan Lee revealed that JJJ really hated Spider-Man because deep down he felt like he was a selfish coward and thus resented Spider-Man's heroics and selflessness. He's done some pretty fucked up shit, like funding the creation of the Scorpion, though later they made it so that Jonah secretly started a charity to help people affected by the Scorpion's crimes and attacks. He also single-handedly funded Peter's legal defense during the Clone Saga when Parker was accused of murder.
 
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wtfNeedSignUp said:
Pretty sure that's what Hollywood writers believe Alex Jones is capable of doing. The rule is that the "enemy" must be at the same time extremely powerful and influential but also pathetic, ridiculous and (sometimes literally) emasculated.
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Reminds me how Donald Trump was both a mentally inept buffoon but also an evil mastermind that brainwashed half of the U.S. and was going to be worse than Hitler.
 
MirrorNoir said:
JJJ is all over the place in the comics as one writer will make him sympathetic and reasonable on all things but Spider-Man only for another writer to make JJJ an irredeemable asshole who's a bastard to everyone.
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Jonah's biggest enemy, unsupervised writers. In and out of the comic reality.

As near as I can tell across most mediums that are willing to both try to be consistent and account for the wider Marvel universe;

Jonah is a long time journalist who rose to the point where he had his own paper. Which is in and of itself a genuine oddity in reality never mind comic books
Assuming the Cap and Buck stuff is relevant he knows and is respectful to old school heroes but that seems to be a degree of them having earned their reputation in wartime rather than actually liking the idea of costumed vigilantes
He is not inherently biased against (mutants, minorities, other groups) but unless the stories have actual errors he catches at the time he will run them. This is universally true but when it turns out lying is involved he will both take a degree of blame while also taking the journalists involved down
His main issue with Spiderman which ties back to the America fanboy stuff is he sees him as a glory hound. When Spidey doing the wrestling circuit for money is tied in this makes a degree of sense, though Jonah's refusal to change his mind is suspect
Seemingly Jonah takes knee-jerk reactions to stuff, but in turn when he finds out more information he gets just as firmly entrenched in completely opposed opinions (Kingpin)
Threats to him directly do not change his mind but make him commit further. Spidey webbing him to objects, cathartic though it may be, does not help
If placed in a situation where he tells the truth or screws over Spiderman he tells the truth. So the truth is a higher priority

There's likely more than a few other consistent facts.
 
That also reminds me of of one of the more WTF moments of the infamous Original Sin storyline; one issue of the "Original Sins" mini (that dealt with the blinding flash of everyone's secrets around issue #3/4 of the main mini but also revealed additional "secrets" of the Marvel Universe unrelated to the Original Sin mini) had a guy find in the Bugle archive a story about Spider-Man's TV debut the night he let the burglar escape after he robbed the TV station praising Spider-Man written by Jonah. With it implied that Spider-Man refusing to stop the burglar/thief was what turned Jonah against Spider-Man when Jonah forced the guy hand over the only known physical copy of the story, which Jonah had purged once he started his anti-Spiderman crusade.
 
Some other Jonah lore I remember:
- I can't remember the story but in it they revealed that Peter's pictures were actually kinda shit when starting out but, knowing Peter was supporting himself and his aunt, JJJ would buy all the pictures regardless.

- In Marv Wolfman's stint on Amazing, Peter finally has enough of Jonah's shit and quits the Bugle, getting a better job at another paper. This causes JJJ to start spiraling and have a breakdown. There's also an issue during Wolfman's run wherein Spider-Man and Jameson are cuffed together with a device, forcing them to survive together and where they also air their grievances with each other. It's implied in the story that Jonah peeked under Spidey's mask when he was knocked out. Unfortunately, Marv Wolfman hated Jim Shooter so Wolfman left Marvel in a huff once Shooter got promoted (I think the biggest point of contention was that Shooter thought writers editing their own work was stupid and forced every book to have a separate editor). This happened in the middle of Marv's run and so another writer wrapped up his plots, pretty poorly at that, revealing that Jonah's breakdown was actually caused by Jonas Harrow testing out an insanity ray on JJ and that he never got a chance to actually look under Spider-Man's mask (I think they show that he got spooked by something, hit his head on a wall, and also got knocked out).
 
ShitLurker said:
Looks a lot more like Dark Knight Strikes again, Christ that drawing is shit.
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I still don't know what the fuck is happening in that panel. Is old man Peter meant to be standing on something, is he on a web (that wasn't added in), is he leaping down, or jumping up? From the way his left hand is placed, looks like he was meant to be stuck on a wall, but then the editor or artist changed that to get that TDKR lightning strike homage. Also, that 3D background is shit.
 
Early Spider-Man always struck me as Lee and Ditko doing a bit of a gag comic at the time. Peter is a huge asshole and Aunt May is a literal doddering old woman. Later on it got more serious, but it had a light heartedness even when it was being serious.

I feel like a lot of early comics had that going on, but the art not being cartoonish threw people for a loop.
 
MirrorNoir said:
it implied that Spider-Man refusing to stop the burglar/thief was what turned Jonah against Spider-Man
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Not entirely implausible. At times Jonah has been written as pretty hardline against sorts with otherwise good publicity because he has enough information that he is fairly certain of the truth behind a good PR campaign
Tor Lugosi said:
There's also an issue during Wolfman's run wherein Spider-Man and Jameson are cuffed together with a device, forcing them to survive together and where they also air their grievances with each other.
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I'm reasonably certain they used that in one of the animated series. I think an episode with the Spider Slayer robots?
 
HodgePodgeRogerDodger said:
Early Spider-Man always struck me as Lee and Ditko doing a bit of a gag comic at the time. Peter is a huge asshole and Aunt May is a literal doddering old woman. Later on it got more serious, but it had a light heartedness even when it was being serious.

I feel like a lot of early comics had that going on, but the art not being cartoonish threw people for a loop.
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Ditko also put a lot of himself on Peter, I think. Dude was extremely antisocial and a bit of a geek for his entire life. We barely have interviews with him. As for Stan, he knew that he was making content for kids, but at least he wanted to attract the smart kids and teach them some good lessons of life. Peter acted exactly how a bullied nerd would've acted if he got superpowers: show off, make money, and just be a bit of a dick. That's why the character worked. Nowadays I think Marvel doesn't make content for smart kids, but for dumb adults.
 
SmugAutist said:
Ditko also put a lot of himself on Peter, I think. Dude was extremely antisocial and a bit of a geek for his entire life. We barely have interviews with him. As for Stan, he knew that he was making content for kids, but at least he wanted to attract the smart kids and teach them some good lessons of life. Peter acted exactly how a bullied nerd would've acted if he got superpowers: show off, make money, and just be a bit of a dick. That's why the character worked. Nowadays I think Marvel doesn't make content for smart kids, but for dumb adults.
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I actually found an old ass issue of Fantastic Four and they had college students sending them math for how strong a character was and how much force they were generating in the fan mail. There were black kids thanking them for not bludgeoning them with social commentary and just doing cool superhero bullshit. (Side note: do not care for Kirby, he owes his legacy to Big Dick Stan Lebowitiz)

I take it more as comics back in the 1960’s were written by people trying to make a living. It was pulp entertainment that typically means it’s produced cheaply until editors and publishers realize they can milk it.
Comics as an industry grew into some bastardiztion of how it should work. Manga developed into a healthy market where independent people can own their creation of it gets big. Comics in America are basically where Journalists go when they want to try to become screenwriters but didn’t suck enough tranny cock to get into videogames.
 
wtfNeedSignUp said:
Comic book characters are just forbidden nowadays from being in any way relatable. It's all Ubermensch to prevent the lower castes from getting any funny ideas. "What, your elderly aunt doesn't run a 100M dollar compound in the center of NY to feed the homeless?".
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Isn't just comics as it been American entertainment since at least the late 80ies to early 90ies. Kevin Costner's Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves movie is a very well known example as they made Robin Hood who had been a nobody in previous works to royalty.
 
wtfNeedSignUp said:
Comic book characters are just forbidden nowadays from being in any way relatable. It's all Ubermensch to prevent the lower castes from getting any funny ideas. "What, your elderly aunt doesn't run a 100M dollar compound in the center of NY to feed the homeless?".
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Isn't just comics as it been American entertainment since at least the late 80ies to early 90ies. Kevin Costner's Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves movie is a very well known example as they made Robin Hood who had been a nobody in previous works to nobility in this one. And so on in later Robin Hood movies and shows.
 
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