Marvel Cinematic Universe

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Mary the Goldsmith said:
This is part of the reason I'm hoping this movie ends up underperforming and the MCU dies for good in the near future, sure you can say I'm biased since I haven't enjoyed a single Guardians film, but if this makes over a billion, Disney execs will just say "See we still got it" and continiue pumping out retarded shit like SheHulk and Quantummania, and do you actual Marvel fans want that? one movie you enjoy sandwiched amongst shitty movies?
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It wouldn't matter either way. Disney has neither the talent nor environment/leadership remaining to make anything but Phase IV type IDPOL slop any more. Gunn was the last remaining creative voice that actually had the talent AND standing to have a somewhat free hand in making a movie, and he was mediocre at best, really. I mean I guess technically Waititi is left, but after the undeniable dumpster fire that was Thor 4, I doubt even he'd be allowed (or want, really) to make anything else...plus he is squarely aligned with Disney in any case.

Really, GotG3 was it, the last one. The only way it ever changes is if Iger is forcefully booted, and they utterly clean house in all of their production companies, which will never happen. I mean since Feige has shown his true colors, and is probably even more entrenched than Iger, it will certainly never happen with Marvel. At this point, I suspect the budgets will continue to get smaller and smaller, so the bombs will be less painful, and the movies will just be whatever The Marvels is, over and over, without even the member-berries and nostalgic cameos of the Star Wars trash, since they've pissed off every OG actor to the right of Ruffalo (and they won't be able to just buy them anymore).

Honestly, while I'm not going to see shit, I am actually quite interested in seeing what they do in the next couple years, and looking forward to identifiable keystones as it devolves into CW level trash.

As for GotG3, I finally saw it, in a theater, 6 PM on a Saturday with about 10-15 people in the theater. I agree it was pretty mid. They needed to chop about 45 minutes and a couple sub-plots to have an actual good movie (Gamora, the Ravagers, the Orgocorp, the Utopia planet could all have just been cut to make a tighter and better movie). My biggest gripe, was the music was just utter shit, I mean like what the fuck happened there? Why use We Care a Lot, when you can use Epic (same band, same feel, just a much better song that most people can identify with, even if they don't know what it is). The Florence + the Machine song as the big victorious dance number? What? Not only is it anachronistic, it's just shitty relative to just about anything. Using Beastie Boys is so fucking played (I think literally 3 of the previews at my showing has Beastie Boys songs in them), but if you're going to, why use No Sleep til Brooklyn? I guess I can be thankful that it wasn't fucking Sabotage. I mean one thing about BB is they were pretty prolific, if you simply must put in a BB song, there are PLENTY of good ones to choose from, especially if you're only going to play a minute of it. I mean use Root Down, it's another one like Epic, where you know it, it's good and it hasn't been used in 50 films already. It just seems like Gunn, who previously picked the songs and then wrote around them, just picked like 15 random songs from his 90s playlist and shoe-horned them into the film. I'm glad Spacehog got some money though, so, there is that (should've used Space is the Place, though).
 
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The comments here are interesting and a helpful bellweather. I have friends and family who are not fans but who are kind of slopping into the Marvel stuff because of Disney+ so it is handy. One for example could not give a shit about most of the Marvel nonsense but loved Doctor Strange who I had to carefully tell not to watch the second of his films unless they were 100% certain they gave no shits about spoilers for the other films.

I've been very wary about Guardians 3, I never saw 1 or 2 as high art but I considered them and Thor Ragnarok as akin to Fifth Element if not as good. Cheesy sci-fi that was worth a watch. I suspect I will find 3 average, given the reset of the Gamorra stuff, but likely still watchable.

However as others have said it is very much looking like Disney/Marvel have overestimated audience dedication. They have assumed that every viewer is the obsessive fan that buys every tie in comic, despite knowing years ago that those nuts are a small fraction of their audience even before the films started, and marketed to them. Now that is coming home to roost and denial is on the menu.
 
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I wonder how the MCU will hold up in the future culturally, very few of the films are actually good enough to justify watching by themselvew, with the primary reason to originally watch it all was novelty.

I can't see the current young generation willing to watch 20+ mediocre films for a payoff that will probably be a meme they already know of.
Even watching the full LotR is shorter and are one of the best fantasy films ever made.
 
wtfNeedSignUp said:
I wonder how the MCU will hold up in the future culturally, very few of the films are actually good enough to justify watching by themselvew, with the primary reason to originally watch it all was novelty.

I can't see the current young generation willing to watch 20+ mediocre films for a payoff that will probably be a meme they already know of.
Even watching the full LotR is shorter and are one of the best fantasy films ever made.
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ehh, weird people still watch old toku and serials and stuff
there's def enough that holds up through Endgame, after that, yeah maybe not so much
 
XYZpdq Jr. said:
ehh, weird people still watch old toku and serials and stuff
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I feel personally attacked.

Although, to be fair, the appeal of old toku is not necessarily in the storytelling, but in the presentation. There's something charming about watching a 15 year drive an exploding motorcycle off a cliff knowing that you're never, ever going to see a stunt like that in modern films/tv.
 
Through the vicissitudes of Fate I ended up seeing GotG3 after all. It was significantly better than I expected and the villain was excellent. Will keep an eye out for that actor. The Quill-Gamora ending still left a bad taste but it didn't ruin the movie. Is it me or has Karen Gillian filled out?

I took the earlier poster complaining about the animal experimentation at their word as it is an upsetting subject but I now feel I have to agree with the poster who called him a pussy. It was central to the plot and not, for the most part, very graphic.

But what did annoy me is that the writers do not apparently know the difference between dissection and vivisection. One could hypothesise that they were making a subtle commentary on Peter's education but I'm not inclined to be that charitable. Someone whose trade is words should know the difference.
 
I can honestly see no cinematic return for the foreseeable future. There are too many elements like actors, goof sfx and people actually wanting to see it. Spider-Man cannot hold an entire franchise, it did in the 90s with comics but times are very different. Tom Holland is OK but it's not fair on him to lumber the shit of bad boardroom decisions. Look at how they are fucking around ali at the moment, guy could be in better work but he keeps turning down the scripts because they suck ass.
 
Mary the Goldsmith said:
Although I was never a huge Marvel fan it is still a bit sad to see the massive Juggernaut that was once the MCU, slowly devolve into "time wasters you watch on FX on Sunday" Much like how Disney killed Star Wars they too killed Marvel
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tbh they fell past "oh hey it's on basic cable" a while back from my perspective
 
With all this talk of GotG 3 which is focused around Rocket's origin, I'm slightly surprised nobody has mentioned the actual comics origin. It was in the back of the Transformers comic back in the day as one of their running companion serials. I remember it fairly well though not perfectly. I'm sure there were deliberate callbacks to it in this movie even though things were different and had to be different. In the comic I'm fairly sure he was in love with an Otter whose name I do believe was Lila (or Lyra). I'm certain there was a walrus but only recall in the background. There was a gizmo building tortoise who was ace. Anyway, the parallels to this comic are not super strong but they are there. In the comic the world was called Half-World and it was quite earthlike in some ways, but half of it was a robot civilisation and half of it was natural and splendid. And the humans were called "Loonies" because they were all insane. The animals looked after them. I don't remember all of it, just the plot essentials and thinks like the Red Mist which dissolved everything it touched and killer clowns that only spoke in rhyme. I enjoyed it a lot when I was little so when GotG first came out I thought Rocket was from that but it turns out that they reinvented him even before the MCU for the Marvel comics, I think.

The background story was similar in some ways in that:

the animals had been engineered to be sentient that way by the robots to be companions and minders for the loonies. The entire planet was a "B Ark" scenario in which the incurably insane had been sent to this new world by humanity and the robots created to serve them. But the robots being smart had grown tired of their limited role and wanted to move on. They turned the lunatic's pet animals into sentient beings to offload the main task of caring to them whilst they work on a way to leave Half-World. The animals of course do not know all this and the storyline revolves around them uncovering the real origins and mystery of the planet. The animals for the most part of good and are horrified by the idea of anyone hurting the helpless loonies.

Just typing that out brought back a bunch of memories of that comic. Now I want to see if I can track it down. It's a shame they had to change the origin in a way because the story was so innovative and well-told. But almost utterly incompatible with the MCU so I guess had to be done.
 
Welp that's the Breaks
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& 07
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Wow so they just flatout admit Echo is shit in an attempt to spike the Nielson ratings. That's just fucking sad but honestly I have seen no hype around Loki Season 2 at all.
 
Morethanabitfoolish said:
However as others have said it is very much looking like Disney/Marvel have overestimated audience dedication. They have assumed that every viewer is the obsessive fan that buys every tie in comic, despite knowing years ago that those nuts are a small fraction of their audience even before the films started, and marketed to them. Now that is coming home to roost and denial is on the menu.
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Of all the conspiracies I don't buy, "ESG" is the big one.

I get how popular culture has changed since I was a kid. Back then, it was a lot of corporations finding organic movements to pilfer from and monetize. Then, somewhere it shifted into image consciousness, where the corporations decided they didn't need those filthy kids to tell them what's hot. They decided they were going to be the tastemakers. They were going to TELL you what to think, what to buy, what to wear.

You didn't need a "scene". Corporations told you what the "scene" was, and you know you're cool because everyone else is part of that scene.

The problem with that, is that you don't produce a population of people that have deep-rooted attachments to things, so when they find something new and shiny to latch onto, because rival corporation understands that most people have the attention spans of goldfish, they'll move on because what's cool now, isn't cool forever.

(I'd argue the trans movement going after the kids has a lot to teach corporations about marketing when it comes to getting 'em young...just saying.)

The "forever" market comes from people who love things whether or not things are cool. Who stay with something even when it's shit.

Those are the people that will buy every shit piece of plastic that doesn't have "Funko Pop" in the title.

Disney/Marvel wants to turn the flakes into the "forever" market. And it, like anyone who engages in the baser identity politics of "who do we want buying this shit anyway?", seems to be learning very, very slowly who actually IS buying this shit.

Seriously, how it's all been doubling down since Ghostbusters 2016 is shit that would make even the droolingest exceptional individual sit up and go, "that don't sound right."
 
That is a really interesting point actually and definitely the aim, they said with Star Wars they wanted to make Leah a Disney Princess but with that they have screwed the pooch. They destroyed their evergreen market with live action and watering the brand. They pretty much did the same with Marvel and now it is nothing but diminishing returns.
 
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