Marvel Cinematic Universe

[Kyria the Great]

I know its likely a point that's been talked to death in this thread and in general, but one thing I truly don't like about MCU films and projects is their lack of pathos. I hate this most about Thor, the character in the films whose suffered the most out of all the characters losing almost everyone that was important to him in his life and he's treated as a joke.

Say what you will about the hammier aspects of the Raimi Spiderman trilogy, but it did treat the events in the story as serious business. I'm even in the camp that believes that aside from the obvious shoe-horned in Venom in Spiderman 3, I believe it is a criminally underrated superhero film. Hell all the villains in the Raimi trilogy had a real sense of tragedy without compromising their villainous acts on screen.

I don't know what got lost along the way of treating the story, the characters, and plot seriously in films in the comic book side.

 

[Basic Blonde Boy]

I know its likely a point that's been talked to death in this thread and in general, but one thing I truly don't like about MCU films and projects is their lack of pathos. I hate this most about Thor, the character in the films whose suffered the most out of all the characters losing almost everyone that was important to him in his life and he's treated as a joke.

Say what you will about the hammier aspects of the Raimi Spiderman trilogy, but it did treat the events in the story as serious business. I'm even in the camp that believes that aside from the obvious shoe-horned in Venom in Spiderman 3, I believe it is a criminally underrated superhero film. Hell all the villains in the Raimi trilogy had a real sense of tragedy without compromising their villainous acts on screen.

I don't know what got lost along the way of treating the story, the characters, and plot seriously in films in the comic book side.

I think Guardians of The Galaxy's success killed it.

Phase 2 in general was a lot darker, but most of its films (Age of Ultron, The Dark World, and Iron Man 3) were hated upon release. I think with Guardians being the major success, everyone just tried to parrot it. There is also the fact that many of the directors hate the source material they are making films for, just look at Taika Waititi, who got handed a project like Star Wars then tried to cast Natalie Portman thinking she had never been in a Star Wars film before. These people have no passion or background in the subject and just take the job as a stepping stone in their career. To them, superhero films are the lowest form of entertainment, so they treat them as such.

 

[RockVolnutt]

I know its likely a point that's been talked to death in this thread and in general, but one thing I truly don't like about MCU films and projects is their lack of pathos. I hate this most about Thor, the character in the films whose suffered the most out of all the characters losing almost everyone that was important to him in his life and he's treated as a joke.

Say what you will about the hammier aspects of the Raimi Spiderman trilogy, but it did treat the events in the story as serious business. I'm even in the camp that believes that aside from the obvious shoe-horned in Venom in Spiderman 3, I believe it is a criminally underrated superhero film. Hell all the villains in the Raimi trilogy had a real sense of tragedy without compromising their villainous acts on screen.

I don't know what got lost along the way of treating the story, the characters, and plot seriously in films in the comic book side.

I remember the distinction came up sometimes during the build up before NWH somehow managed to surprise people. People comparing Jonah's "Guy named Otto Octavius winds up with eight limbs. Four mechanical arms welded right onto his body. What are the odds?" from Spider-Man 2 to MCU Peter and friends treating Otto like a clown with "Octavius" being the funniest thing they ever heard. It's silly because the pun with his name isn't that obvious unless you see it written down and I'm pretty sure if you told random people that it's an European name, they'd probably buy it.

MCU usually gets framed as "camp" but I'm not sure if that's an accurate label for the humor. Camp is more over the top flamboyant or being straightface through the absurdity. The MCU on the other hand looks at the audience and goes "Look at this dumb shit, watch us make it good" where there's not really any self-awareness about how watered down they are and the humor's used more to huff their own farts. It's like a parody that tries to "ground" the source material which it then makes this "grounded" version as wacky as possible while also trying to make you take it seriously.

I'm not even sure if I'm properly describing it since it's such an unusual thing I don't think I've ever seen in an adaptation before. All I know is it's a very schizo way of doing things when you step back and look at it.

 

[alright fine]

Raimi's Spiderman has the humor of an amiable nerd who loves the source material warts and all. The MCU mostly has the snotty, embarrassed snarkiness of a cheerleading squad stuck sitting with the loser kids on the bus over a field trip.

 

[KillThemCrackasBabies]

I know its likely a point that's been talked to death in this thread and in general, but one thing I truly don't like about MCU films and projects is their lack of pathos. I hate this most about Thor, the character in the films whose suffered the most out of all the characters losing almost everyone that was important to him in his life and he's treated as a joke.

Say what you will about the hammier aspects of the Raimi Spiderman trilogy, but it did treat the events in the story as serious business. I'm even in the camp that believes that aside from the obvious shoe-horned in Venom in Spiderman 3, I believe it is a criminally underrated superhero film. Hell all the villains in the Raimi trilogy had a real sense of tragedy without compromising their villainous acts on screen.

I don't know what got lost along the way of treating the story, the characters, and plot seriously in films in the comic book side.

You're not wrong, but especially with Thor, Chris Hemsworth hated "serious Thor" and openly expressed interest in leaving the franchise when his contract was done. He's only sticking around because of Taika Waititi and the direction he took the character, so at least some of the blame can be pointed that way.

You're still correct, but I feel like that was worth pointing out again.

 

[RockVolnutt]

You're not wrong, but especially with Thor, Chris Hemsworth hated "serious Thor" and openly expressed interest in leaving the franchise when his contract was done. He's only sticking around because of Taika Waititi and the direction he took the character, so at least some of the blame can be pointed that way.

You're still correct, but I feel like that was worth pointing out again.

True though I wouldn't count Thor 1 or 2 Thor as "serious Thor" though I know they do. Those movies are RomComs put through the MCU mold and are just bland compared to Waititi Thor. It's not like he's playing this guy.

 

[Basic Blonde Boy]

MCU usually gets framed as "camp" but I'm not sure if that's an accurate label for the humor. Camp is more over the top flamboyant or being straightface through the absurdity. The MCU on the other hand looks at the audience and goes "Look at this dumb shit, watch us make it good" where there's not really any self-awareness about how watered down they are and the humor's used more to huff their own farts. It's like a parody that tries to "ground" the source material which it then makes this "grounded" version as wacky as possible while also trying to make you take it seriously.

When I think of camp, the most perfect example to me is Adam West's Batman. That show is incredibly stupid but West holds a straight face through it all and talks with a large amount of confidence. The show itself has confidence that the audience will pick up on the fact that it is all one large joke.

In comparison, the MCU does this thing where it seems to want to be taken seriously, but feels the need to shit itself every other scene as to not be too serious. It wants to have its cake and eat it too, being both a cinematic experience and one large comedy. By the end it is neither. It has no confidence in itself or the audience to handle the material, which is the series greatest flaw.

Adam West Batman may be inaccurate to its source material in many ways, but damn does it have confidence in what it made. The MCU doesn't. It took the wrong lessons from Guardians as that film actually did have confidence and knew when to be a joke or serious.

 

[RockVolnutt]

When I think of camp, the most perfect example to me is Adam West's Batman. That show is incredibly stupid but West holds a straight face through it all and talks with a large amount of confidence. The show itself has confidence that the audience will pick up on the fact that it is all one large joke.

In comparison, the MCU does this thing where it seems to want to be taken seriously, but feels the need to shit itself every other scene as to not be too serious. It wants to have its cake and eat it too, being both a cinematic experience and one large comedy. By the end it is neither. It has no confidence in itself or the audience to handle the material, which is the series greatest flaw.

Adam West Batman may be inaccurate to its source material in many ways, but damn does it have confidence in what it made. The MCU doesn't. It took the wrong lessons from Guardians as that film actually did have confidence and knew when to be a joke or serious.

That's why I'm curious if there's a better name or description for that style in general. I'm not sure if there's other media out there that hits this tone or they accidentally created something fairly unique. Trying to think of some others but I'm blanking though I'd want to say the CW DC shows or the weird relationship DmC has to Devil May Cry both feel close enough as other examples

I feel stronger on the DmC comparison since the CW DC shows technically are doing what they're setting out to be as teen drama as shitty as they be but idk. That might be an unrelated bad idea.

 

[Basic Blonde Boy]

That's why I'm curious if there's a better name or description for that style in general. I'm not sure if there's other media out there that hits this tone or they accidentally created something fairly unique. Trying to think of some others but I'm blanking though I'd want to say the CW DC shows or the weird relationship DmC has to Devil May Cry both feel close enough as other examples

You can find this style in basically every modern reboot as Star Wars and FemBusters are other prime examples. I like to consider it the "I'm too old for 'x' but not really" style. It is this weird in-between where it hates its desire to want to embrace the material, so they write a serious plot then demean it at every turn because isn't this kid's material stupid? It feels like the ultimate man-child writing where they really need to convince others that their hobby is actually super adult through the most superficial methods. It is just poor writing.

 

[Johan Schmidt]

I took my brother to the new Thor film.

God I fucking hate Korg, I hate that big faggot rock so fucking much it's actually unreal.

 

[The Ugly One]

Not at all, the MCU as a whole is a negative for both the medium of film and comicbooks as a whole. Both will be better off once they go away or get replaced with something better and apathy's the only reason you'd think otherwise. Film gets drowned in quirky "irony" filled slop that holds their premises at arm's length since they could never be sincere while comicbooks get these parodies as their face to general audiences and influxes of writers seeing them as a gateway into TV/Film.

The comics destroyed themselves decades ago, first by deciding to exclusively go after the deep wallets of the manchild nerds who inhabit comic book stores, rather than the broad base of child readers that had kept the industry going since Action #1, and then further destroyed themselves by jamming their heads straight up their asses and turning into woke parables.

The popularity of the MCU offered a golden opportunity to Marvel to capitalize on that, get comic books back into supermarkets and convenience stores, and sell stories about Iron Man punching space robots into dust by the million again. Instead, they decided to continue hiding away in the comic book stores, selling yet another Issue #1 Special Edition for $25 about the New Iron Man being a troonswoman of color or whatever. It's too bad. They could have made comic books fun again while kids were demanding everything from Iron Man breakfast cereal to Incredible Hulk nite-lites. Seems like they could sell anything and everything but comics, because God forbid we fire the woke faggot writers who write stories for fat nerds and hire people who like kids and think childhood should be fun.

 

[RockVolnutt]

The comics destroyed themselves decades ago, first by deciding to exclusively go after the deep wallets of the manchild nerds who inhabit comic book stores, rather than the broad base of child readers that had kept the industry going since Action #1, and then further destroyed themselves by jamming their heads straight up their asses and turning into woke parables.

The popularity of the MCU offered a golden opportunity to Marvel to capitalize on that, get comic books back into supermarkets and convenience stores, and sell stories about Iron Man punching space robots into dust by the million again. Instead, they decided to continue hiding away in the comic book stores, selling yet another Issue #1 Special Edition for $25 about the New Iron Man being a troonswoman of color or whatever. It's too bad. They could have made comic books fun again while kids were demanding everything from Iron Man breakfast cereal to Incredible Hulk nite-lites. Seems like they could sell anything and everything but comics, because God forbid we fire the woke faggot writers who write stories for fat nerds and hire people who like kids and think childhood should be fun.

Eh, I somewhat disagree if only because a lot of those woke writers are there because they think Hollywood jobs are right around the corner for them. Look at any of their social media accounts and it's all film/TV with no comics in sight. That's not even the tip of the iceberg with the modern industry but I think that aspect gets zeroed in on too much because it's an easy target. I don't think it's a lost cause considering I got in just fine and I'm not even 30 yet. Barely in middle school by the time the MCU started though I already was reading some comics at that point.

Hell, the relaunching problem you're talking about is intended to prey on speculators who want a big #1 before a new show/movie because they think it'll be worth something rather than any established audience. That and pandering to people who think you can only jump in on #1s.

 

[LightDragonman1]

Some MCU fans are wondering why it's easier to mock them and their films rather than the new Top Gun.

Thoughts? I do agree though that Cruise's Scientology antics aren't exactly laugh-worthy, but I tend to put his personal life and professional work to the side.

 

[Xenomorphs Are Cute]

Some MCU fans are wondering why it's easier to mock them and their films rather than the new Top Gun.
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Thoughts? I do agree though that Cruise's Scientology antics aren't exactly laugh-worthy, but I tend to put his personal life and professional work to the side.

Marlel trannies can't handle a Cruisekino... I'm not even surprised.

 

[The Ugly One]

Eh, I somewhat disagree if only because a lot of those woke writers are there because they think Hollywood jobs are right around the corner for them. Look at any of their social media accounts and it's all film/TV with no comics in sight. That's not even the tip of the iceberg with the modern industry but I think that aspect gets zeroed in on too much because it's an easy target. I don't think it's a lost cause considering I got in just fine and I'm not even 30 yet. Barely in middle school by the time the MCU started though I already was reading some comics at that point.

Hell, the relaunching problem you're talking about is intended to prey on speculators who want a big #1 before a new show/movie because they think it'll be worth something rather than any established audience. That and pandering to people who think you can only jump in on #1s.

In the 1980s, comic books were ubiquitous. The supermarket, the gas station, the book store, anywhere you went that sold magazines, they sold comics as well. This began to change in the 1990s with the rise of the adult nerd. Gen X was on the leading edge of this. The comic industry decided hey, these nerds will drop hundreds of dollars on a trip to the specialty store, why do we even give a shit about what 9-year-olds want? First they started putting more sex and violence into the comics, more "epic" storylines that required buying multiple lines. Lots of special editions, miniseries with a new Issue #1, anything to get the nerds to shell out. Politics is more recent, but they went hard with the woke politics and "representation" before almost anyone else.

In the meantime, children completely lost interest, because they don't give a shit about Peter Parker's relationship with MJ or OH MY GOD SPIDER MAN IS LATINX NOW LOOK AT THE REPRESENTATION. They want to see Spider-Man leap off a building, tell a joke, and slam Silvermane's face into a wall.

 

[Xenomorphs Are Cute]

In the 1980s, comic books were ubiquitous. The supermarket, the gas station, the book store, anywhere you went that sold magazines, they sold comics as well. This began to change in the 1990s with the rise of the adult nerd. Gen X was on the leading edge of this. The comic industry decided hey, these nerds will drop hundreds of dollars on a trip to the specialty store, why do we even give a shit about what 9-year-olds want? First they started putting more sex and violence into the comics, more "epic" storylines that required buying multiple lines. Lots of special editions, miniseries with a new Issue #1, anything to get the nerds to shell out. Politics is more recent, but they went hard with the woke politics and "representation" before almost anyone else.

In the meantime, children completely lost interest, because they don't give a shit about Peter Parker's relationship with MJ or OH MY GOD SPIDER MAN IS LATINX NOW LOOK AT THE REPRESENTATION. They want to see Spider-Man leap off a building, tell a joke, and slam Silvermane's face into a wall.

I don't even understand why there's no stopping at this point. The big 3 of comics are fucked already, Marvel is just an IP farm for MCU to be used. DC doesn't have a office which they blame Znyder for instead of admitting to it's mistakes. IDW went nearly bankrupt during Sitterson Era & I've heard that they recently lost their mainstream titles like Transformers, G.I. JOE, Sonic, etc.

 

[Kramer on the phone]

Raimi's Spiderman has the humor of an amiable nerd who loves the source material warts and all. The MCU mostly has the snotty, embarrassed snarkiness of a cheerleading squad stuck sitting with the loser kids on the bus over a field trip.

its also humor that fits in the story vs outside of it. like in your example, its snarkiness from an out group peering in. everything said in spiderman would be something someone might actually say in the situation, "what kinda name is X" isn't; because its pointing out something that shouldn't be something people inside the universe would remark on. its like pointing out jews to normies, it doesn't fit in their worldview so its offputting.

When I think of camp, the most perfect example to me is Adam West's Batman. That show is incredibly stupid but West holds a straight face through it all and talks with a large amount of confidence. The show itself has confidence that the audience will pick up on the fact that it is all one large joke.

In comparison, the MCU does this thing where it seems to want to be taken seriously, but feels the need to shit itself every other scene as to not be too serious. It wants to have its cake and eat it too, being both a cinematic experience and one large comedy. By the end it is neither. It has no confidence in itself or the audience to handle the material, which is the series greatest flaw.

Adam West Batman may be inaccurate to its source material in many ways, but damn does it have confidence in what it made. The MCU doesn't. It took the wrong lessons from Guardians as that film actually did have confidence and knew when to be a joke or serious.

its earnestness in general and has been lacking in most films for about 20 years now. Whedons "be serious then tell a joke" mentality has been the norm for so long its a weakness in US media. its a big reason why parodies films of the last 20 years have been shit outside of Walk Hard, biopics were the only ones not taking the piss.

Even the original X-men pointed out how stupid their names & uniforms were. Mind you the typical jew mockery of anything with a spine or any attempt at earnestness is a major contributor to this, we bitch about "subverting expectations" but its just the most major way they've been shitting on legacies for a century now. its why they pull that "don't mock X or you're a bigot" crap. they're all about pulling the ladder up.

 

[Basic Blonde Boy]

Is it wrong to find this meme funnier than what Whedon actually wrote?

its earnestness in general and has been lacking in most films for about 20 years now. Whedons "be serious then tell a joke" mentality has been the norm for so long its a weakness in US media. its a big reason why parodies films of the last 20 years have been shit outside of Walk Hard, biopics were the only ones not taking the piss.

Even the original X-men pointed out how stupid their names & uniforms were. Mind you the typical jew mockery of anything with a spine or any attempt at earnestness is a major contributor to this, we bitch about "subverting expectations" but its just the most major way they've been shitting on legacies for a century now. its why they pull that "don't mock X or you're a bigot" crap. they're all about pulling the ladder up.

Honestly, I don’t mind people poking fun at the source material as some great adaptations have done that very thing, mainly pertaining to Batman as LEGO and Brave & The Bold do it really well. I think the difference though is, while those examples do trash on him at times, I can tell that the writers really are huge fans of Batman and that they understand the character and legacy.

In comparison, it feels like most adaptations of super heroes do the bare minimum homework and it is just the writer/director venting that they had to read a comic. The examples above clearly took inspiration from more than the essentials and represented whole stories and characters largely neglected by time.

 

[Articles and Nudes]

The best parodies come from a position of love, not bitterness. Its why stuff like Hot Shots and Galaxy Quest are loved, whereas shit such The Boys just comes across as whiny axe grinding that misses the point of its own material.

 

[Mr. Zed da Robot Poon Fed]

Honestly, I don’t mind people poking fun at the source material as some great adaptations have done that very thing, mainly pertaining to Batman as LEGO and Brave & The Bold do it really well. I think the difference though is, while those examples do trash on him at times, I can tell that the writers really are huge fans of Batman and that they understand the character and legacy.

Funnily enough, I was thinking about tha Luke Cage throwback when this was mentioned.