Marvel Cinematic Universe

[The Paleblood Vessel]

Is anyone going to talk about how, for some lovecraftian reason, they decided to start changing the name of the movie on all the posters and shit to The New Avengers? Look at this, pulled right from the AMC website:


Also, what a cast of our New Avengers! Reject Captain America, Russian Reject Captain America, a former manchurian agent who assassinated JFK and is somehow a congressman, an assassin, and a woman who can phase through things. Doctor Doom better watch out, he'll never win in Doomsday with this extremely powerful group in play!

 

[Ultraman Orb Dark]

okay yeah Rod sounds mad lol

Compared to other works of media made in response to things the creator doesn't like, this was pretty tame. You can at least understand Rod Sterling's distain for the western genre because of how it misinterprets historical events. It's far better than works like The Boys or Magical Girl Site, where the premise amounts to "What if superheroes were violent sociopaths with lots of blood and sex".

That instakill in the first bit of the movie should've been reserved for someone truly horrible like She-Hulk. The character may be horribly forgettable but the MCU Jennifer Walters is legitimately an insufferable person to be around. And this is a universe where the Worst Wolverine went on a murder spree because he was too drunk to save his friends.

I don't think She-Hulk has even appeared since the end of her series. I guess since they got Deadpool, having another hero who breaks the fourth wall would be too redundant.

Is anyone going to talk about how, for some lovecraftian reason, they decided to start changing the name of the movie on all the posters and shit to The New Avengers? Look at this, pulled right from the AMC website:
View attachment 7323125

Also, what a cast of our New Avengers! Reject Captain America, Russian Reject Captain America, a former manchurian agent who assassinated JFK and is somehow a congressman, an assassin, and a woman who can phase through things. Doctor Doom better watch out, he'll never win in Doomsday with this extremely powerful group in play!

What makes a good superhero team is the layout consisting of experts in certain areas and combat styles.

Take a look at the founding Avengers, their abilities, and what they bring to the table.

• Iron Man:
  • Advanced suit of armor loaded with tons of weapons and is capable of flight
  • Super genius who comes up with the team's inventions
  • Billionaire and the team's financial backer
• Captain America:
  • Experienced WWII supersoldier with a shield made of the most durable metal on the planet
  • Plenty of knowledge thanks to serving in the army
  • Field leader of the team
• Thor:
  • Norse god who can fly, manipulate lightning, and wield a legendary hammer only he can hold
  • Knowledgable of Asgardian threats
  • One of the team's powerhouses
• Hulk:
  • Gamma mutant with super strength
  • Expert in gamma research and an intellectual equal to Tony
  • Another one of the team's powerhouses
• Hawkeye:
  • Skilled marksman with a variety of trick arrows
  • Incredibly agile and can move around quickly
  • Provides cover support for the team
• Black Widow
  • Trained assassin with several gadgets and guns
  • Expert in espionage
  • Spy for the team

Most of the New Avengers are former assassins or soldiers without any diverse superpowers. While you could argue they would be good at espionage missions, they don't seem like the kind of team you'd expect to protect the entire world from threats like Doctor Doom, Magneto, or Galactus.

 

[Twin Addler]

They're not actually the real new avengers to be fair. That's what Sam's team is supposed to be. They're only called that because that's what Val introduced them as to the press.

The credits even show this with an in-universe #NotMyAvengers and The B-vengers trending. And Walker stating that the memes people have been making show the public prefers Sam's team over theirs. (He was too busy reading articles about himself to watch over his child so makes sense he'd be terminally online reading what the public thinks about his new team)

 

[Tor Lugosi]

They're not actually the real new avengers to be fair. That's what Sam's team is supposed to be. They're only called that because that's what Val introduced them as to the press.

The credits even show this with an in-universe #NotMyAvengers and The B-vengers trending. And Walker stating that the memes people have been making show the public prefers Sam's team over theirs. (He was too busy reading articles about himself to watch over his child so makes sense he'd be terminally online reading what the public thinks about his new team)

Which is funny because something tells me that in reality people won't really prefer Sam's Avengers. The supposed leaked list of Sam's team has him, She-Hulk, Captain Marvel, Ant-Man, Shang-Chi, and the female Black Panther. More diverse powers, sure, but few people like most of those characters save for maybe Ant-Man.

 

[madethistocomment]

Watched Thunderbolts tonight. I honestly really liked it. Like someone said earlier, it would fit right in in the lineup of Phase 2 in terms of vibes. Surprising lack of bathos which was deeply appreciated as it let serious moments actually stick, and I really liked how they tried to use physical effects as much as they could. It actually looked like a real movie because of that and it was refreshing. I also liked the team themselves, which is probably due to almost every single character being played by super charismatic actors (aside from Ghost imo, who just kinda fades into the background). John Walker continues to be Best Boy.

Aside from Bob, the team's skillset isn't too diverse and much more suited to covert operations and low-to-middle scale threats (compared to shit like Thanos) which I hope () means that they'll be the Avengers equivalent of Black Ops and be sent in to do the dirty work and mop up political shitshows. Them being more oriented towards spy and political thriller stuff would be a fun change of pace compared to the rest of the current MCU and would allow for more comparatively low budget self-contained stories, rather than them getting dragged into yet more alien doomsday multiversal high-budget CGI-fest horseshit that has been almost the entirety of the MCU since Endgame. Let Sam's Diversity Hires handle that, I'm sick to death of it and I'd like for the characters I actually enjoy to get the interesting stuff.

Bob being the team's friendly, unassuming, sentient tomahawk missile is honestly kind of funny. I hope that this is how they use him in any future installments if they find themselves going up against anything that firearms and brute strength can't fix:

 

[Twin Addler]

which I hope () means that they'll be the Avengers equivalent of Black Ops and be sent in to do the dirty work and mop up political shitshows. Them being more oriented towards spy and political thriller stuff would be a fun change of pace compared to the rest of the current MCU and would allow for more comparatively low budget self-contained stories,

You have enormous rainbows if you think current MCU is able to make anything like that. Just look at the previous times they even attempted. The Falcon Show, Secret Invasion, Brave New World etc.

We already know the next adventure for this group is fighting CGI multiverse whatevers alongside Sam's Diversity Hires, the F4 and whatever Fox X-Men actor accepts their enormous paycheck.

 

[madethistocomment]

You have enormous rainbows if you think current MCU is able to make anything like that. Just look at the previous times they even attempted. The Falcon Show, Secret Invasion, Brave New World etc.

We already know the next adventure for this group is fighting CGI multiverse whatevers alongside Sam's Diversity Hires, the F4 and whatever Fox X-Men actor accepts their enormous paycheck.

Let me dream.

 

[Nick Obre]

Thoughts on Johnathan Hickman and Ryan North?

I quite like Hickman, he creates very interesting scenarios and character dynamics (particularly by taking characters and concepts and flipping them on their head, or taking them to, or beyond, their logical conclusion), but he can't finish a story to save his life.

I don't think I've read anything by North, or at least taken note of it.

--

Also, I liked Thunderbolts, for much the same reasons others have said. It's a movie, predictable but enjoyable, more than you can say about a lot of post Endgame MCU films, or even current mainstream films in general.

But you know all that's gonna happen with this team is they'll get wrecked in Doomsday, and Sentry will be killed to establish the threat.

 

[Mac Monster]

Which is funny because something tells me that in reality people won't really prefer Sam's Avengers. The supposed leaked list of Sam's team has him, She-Hulk, Captain Marvel, Ant-Man, Shang-Chi, and the female Black Panther. More diverse powers, sure, but few people like most of those characters save for maybe Ant-Man.

If this does end up being the real New Avengers lineup, then the Thunderbolts are better just by virtue of not having unlikeable assholes like She-Hulk and Captain Marvel.

 

[Idiotron]

Is anyone going to talk about how, for some lovecraftian reason, they decided to start changing the name of the movie on all the posters and shit to The New Avengers?

This is why:

It's the first one in a long time that people seem to like, box office isn't bad either.
Positive reviews seem to focus on the characters and that's what's important in these cinematic universes.
The stories can suck for the most part but, as long as people want to see these characters on screen, the movies will make money.
If anybody is going to lead this whole thing post-Doomsday, it has to be someone that people don't hate.
They also have a villain that is memorable and they can use him later as a replacement for Captain Marvel.

Nobody likes Captain African American, nobody likes She-Hulk, nobody likes the Marvels, nobody likes Shuri, nobody likes the shows aside from Loki and he can't be an Avenger.
Agatha was mildly popular... among middle aged women and lesbians, those demos will not go to see Doomsday so no need to pander to them.
Diversity has failed, let's get all the straight white people to lead this thing.

Might as well make a prediction:
John Walker will replace Sam as Cap, he's clearly more popular.
Whenever they post a short of him getting dunked on in the show, most of the comments are defending him.
Also, Wyatt Russell is a way better actor and way more likable than Anthony "give me the role because I'm black" Mackey.

 

[Overly Serious]

Saw it, thought it was okay. Anyway, it's not the first time I've posted something along these lines but then it's a recurrent issue in the movies: Many of the cast are better than the material. Florence Pugh does the best she can with the her part. I still find it very artificial that both she and Red Guardian - who are consummate spies (he lived undercover in the USA for at least a year, probably several, passing as a native born citizen) have broken English but she has her mannerisms down. Near the start she does this "ough" noise that I have only ever heard from Serbians and Russians.

Actually, tangent on my pet peeve: this is Red Guardian at the opening of Black Widow. How did his English deteriorate from this to what we see in Thunderbolts?

Actually, how did his intelligence deteriorate from this to what we see in Thunderbolts?

But to resume my tirade, David Harbour plays one of the most likeable characters in the movie and that's in large part to the actor's charisma because it sure as Hell isn't the dialogue he's given. The guy playing Bob is talented too. And from what I saw of the John Walker character (only seen this movie, never watched the TV show) his actor is good. Hell, the actress playing Ghost might be good but I've really no idea because she's given sweet FA to do in this movie. I'll even disagree with the poster above me about Anthony Mackey only getting roles because he's Black. Yes, they very probably did say "we must cast someone Black for this role" but the dude himself is likeable and on panels he seems pretty relatable and hasn't brained Tom Holland for talking smack about him which must take some self-control. And it's no more a problem that the role called for someone Black than Black Widow's role called for someone White and female. Back in Winter Soldier and Civil War he's perfectly likeable and normal. Only (from what I hear) when it gets to the TV show and suddenly they start using his skin colour to push some nonsensical plot points, does it become a problem.

Now there certainly are cases where the actor is as bad as the material. I have very low expectations of Pedro Pascal in FF: First Steps for example. And whoever was playing the villain Val in Thunderbolts was... not really great for the role. Though I think she was giving them what she was asked for so can't hold her responsible.

For all the commentary about how Thunderbolts had lots of talking, there's an upside to that in that it actually gives some of the cast room to breathe and, I know this is out of fashion, to act. Rather weak script, though.

 

[The Nothingness]

This is why:

It's the first one in a long time that people seem to like, box office isn't bad either.
Positive reviews seem to focus on the characters and that's what's important in these cinematic universes.

Great. Now the shills will declare the MCU is back.

 

[BiggestKai]

Great. Now the shills will declare the MCU is back.

Until the Fantastic Four movie fucks things up?

 

[Milkshake Sniffer]

It's the first one in a long time that people seem to like, box office isn't bad either.

Rotten Tomatoes has not been a credible source for what people like since, at the latest, their running cover for Captain Marvel. Remember how they removed the "Want to see" part of the site after it dropped to 28%, claiming it was being treated as the Audience Score which was clearly a lie - it was explicitly labelled "WANT TO SEE", i.e. clearly stated that the film had not been seen. RT also denied this change had anything to do with Captain Marvel and then, a fortnight later, stated in an unrelated context that the change had been "brought forward" due to the Captain Marvel situation.

The Critics part on the other hand is actually misleading in that the 88% doesn't mean that critics as a group think it's a 88% (i.e. 88 out of 100) film; it means that 88% have given it a fresh rating (better than 5/10, 2 of 4, or whatever metric they use. That's why it's often a fun game to look at what "fresh" critic reviews actually say and marvel (no pun intended) at how reviews that are wall to wall criticism or only praise the politics of a film are counted as fresh.

Add in some very curious site behaviour such as the locking of declining audience scores and the delaying of scores appearing and it's clear that RT is not a neutral data presentation site. It's a PR/marketing operation for the industry Disney seeming to get particularly preferential treatment.

Box office not bad? By what metric? As matters stand it's more of a flop than I am when I see Zendeya on screen. In non-adjusted terms it's scrubbing along with (actually towards the bottom end of) the "they lost money" dregs of phases 4 and 5. In real terms (inflation adjusted) of all the MCU films from the very start of phase 1, only The Marvels has had a worse first weekend.

The "good" word of mouth seems to revolve around one, well it's not as bad as other phase 4 and 5 stuff; two, it deals with depression; three, Florence Pugh is great; four, the MCU is back to form. The first is damning with faint praise; being punched in the face once is not as bad as being punched in the face twice - it's still not good. The second is a so what comment regardless of whether the approach to depression is handled well or in the most superficial and Californian of ways. The third, well great but if anyone thinks any appreciable number of people are going to buy tickets because Florence Pugh is in a MCU film they're deluded. The fourth, well that's just the mantra that's trotted out with every recent MCU film, gets proven wrong and quietly forgotten about a couple of weeks later.

It might be that Thunderbolts* (sorry, The New Avengers now) will have a spectacular run and I'm interested to see what, if any effect the name change which might be seen as a tad desperate, will have on the second and subsequent weeks. As matters currently stand it needs a run the like of which the MCU has not seen for many years not to be another loss maker.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

I don't really have a problem with the name thing. There's a movies that could use this sort of gimmick, like I still say that Predators (the Condemned/Battle Royale With Criminals one) was made with the idea you were supposed to be swerved when they reveal the other planet and BOOM PREDATORS

 

[That Chris Guy]

I think it's very telling that they've had 9 years since the first Suicide Squad released to learn from the mistakes of that spotty film and make a better movie, and yet they made something that's just as bad if not worse by the fact that they had more to work with and a failure to guide correction.

- Yelena's an annoying, snarky bitch who went through trauma yet apparently can't empathise with other people's trauma unless the script requires her to (i,e.: Bob).

- Aleksey can't catch a fucking break and is essentially the Jar Jar Binks of whatever MCU film he's in. They needed another Fat Thor so I guess David Harbour fits that description...somehow.

- I'm not even sure why Bucky is here, other than for Marvel to *pretend* they still give a fuck about him, because Sebastian Stan certainly doesn't. Perfect climate for the character to open up about himself and relate to a newer generation of people, and he gets nothing. That congressman role they kept pushing him into via the TV shows? Yeah, that went nowhere.

- Johnny "MVP" Walker is a really strange case. They want you to hate him yet they write him with some of the most heroic content of the MCU...why? He earned 3 Medals of Honour, he threw himself on live grenades to save people, he killed a man who killed his best friend when Steve Rogers and Falcon killed whenever they pleased, yet he's the only one who gets shamed for it, he threw aside his shield to save a busload of people, and in this movie? He saves their lives several times and only gets shat on for it. Like, what is this? He's more heroic than Falcon America, and unlike Sam he didn't try to prop up terrorists.

It just feels like a movie that lacks any proper consideration. It's slapdashed together without logical conclusions, and there could've been a lot more thought and exploration put into making these second-rate forgotten names into being potential inherits of at least some of the Marvel stardom.

 

[dick brain]

For all the commentary about how Thunderbolts had lots of talking, there's an upside to that in that it actually gives some of the cast room to breathe and, I know this is out of fashion, to act.

I want to clarify that I don't have a problem with the talking, I have a problem with the Telling. Maybe it's because I watch a lot of movies but I do not feel like I saw anyone act in Thunderbolts. Yelena gets once chance to emote, outside that she spends the entire movie in a snarky aloof deadpan because the writers need her to look cool and badass. Same goes for every other major character except Bob when he's being played as a joke and Red Guardian who's always being played as a joke. Red Guardian was the only one who got to act and it amounts to a Will Ferrell bit. Genuinely Taskmaster's single line of dialogue conveyed more emotion than almost anything else in the film. The character interactions have nothing to do with acting, it's just exposition dumps and people telling each other who they are. It felt like the first session of a bad D&D group.

The Accountant 2 was laughably bad but compared to Thunderbolts it's a masterclass on conveying emotion and background and internal conflict to the audience without outright telling them. And that's not even a film I'd recommend to anybody, it's just another film I happened to see recently.

 

[Overly Serious]

I want to clarify that I don't have a problem with the talking, I have a problem with the Telling. Maybe it's because I watch a lot of movies but I do not feel like I saw anyone act in Thunderbolts. Yelena gets once chance to emote, outside that she spends the entire movie in a snarky aloof deadpan because the writers need her to look cool and badass. Same goes for every other major character except Bob when he's being played as a joke and Red Guardian who's always being played as a joke. Red Guardian was the only one who got to act and it amounts to a Will Ferrell bit. Genuinely Taskmaster's single line of dialogue conveyed more emotion than almost anything else in the film. The character interactions have nothing to do with acting, it's just exposition dumps and people telling each other who they are. It felt like the first session of a bad D&D group.

The Accountant 2 was laughably bad but compared to Thunderbolts it's a masterclass on conveying emotion and background and internal conflict to the audience without outright telling them. And that's not even a film I'd recommend to anybody, it's just another film I happened to see recently.

Perhaps I oversold it a little to make my point. I do very much feel that several of the actors in MCU's recent movies are notably better than the material and I have a bit of a pet peeve about actors taking the hit for poor script and directing. Something which I see happen quite often. And there were moments in the film that I do feel showed that they were such. I'll take your points, though.

Also, there was an Accountant 2? The Accountant is that film about the mobster dude with autism? I saw that long ago and my strongest memory of it is that the dad refused to let the mum take him off for lots of autism care and instead made his son learn to deal with his autism full-on and that the film not only didn't make the dad a villain for this but cast him as being right. That film?

 

[dick brain]

Also, there was an Accountant 2? The Accountant is that film about the mobster dude with autism? I saw that long ago and my strongest memory of it is that the dad refused to let the mum take him off for lots of autism care and instead made his son learn to deal with his autism full-on and that the film not only didn't make the dad a villain for this but cast him as being right. That film?

Yeah, The Accountant was Rainman meets Batman; The Accountant 2 doubles down on that to the point of absurdity, it's probably how the Zizians imagine themselves. It's fucking funny, especially when it's not trying to be, if you can handle cringe. To its credit it has very good fight choreography and gunplay, so it scratched that itch after Thunderbolts blueballed me. Jon Bernthal plays the same character he always plays but he's got it down to a science at this point so it works well.

 

[Overly Serious]

The Accountant 2 doubles down on that to the point of absurdity, it's probably how the Zizians imagine themselves. It's fucking funny, especially when it's not trying to be, if you can handle cringe.

Do I want to search what "Zizians" are or would I regret that?

Maybe I'll watch it but 2024 put me way overdrawn on Cringe Tolerance and so far 2025 has not given me enough non-Cringe to pay it down. Perhaps in the Autumn.