Magic The Gathering

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

"spells that are shit unless you've got 4 creatures of 4 different types on the board" as a mechanic VS "this card is either a land or a spell with a minor drawback on either"

Design really seems to have a taste for fine lead paints or something

The, flip lands are..sort of okayish, if Valakut awakening is the power level we can expect for the 5 then I will be happy with it.

The DND PARTY mechanic shit is fucking exceptional, and the fact that we are going to official "forgotten realms" as a real mainline set is fucking pathetic (oh and Innistrad again lul)
Phyrexia faggots get BTFO, how much you all want to bet "Kenders" get their own creature type instead of being called Kobalds because WOTC fucks up tribal shit at every chance.

 

[Rich Evans Apologist]

The, flip lands are..sort of okayish, if Valakut awakening is the power level we can expect for the 5 then I will be happy with it.

The DND PARTY mechanic shit is fucking exceptional, and the fact that we are going to official "forgotten realms" as a real mainline set is fucking pathetic (oh and Innistrad again lul)
Phyrexia faggots get BTFO, how much you all want to bet "Kenders" get their own creature type instead of being called Kobalds because WOTC fucks up tribal shit at every chance.

I dunno how I feel about the concept, specifically for dealing with control. Lands coming in tapped isn't a huge concern for them on the first turn or two, and Uro can easily drop them down on a turn where you wouldn't care if they came in tapped anyways. Three mana for that effect at instant-speed in red seems pretty solid to me, given the opportunity cost just does not seem that high to me.

But I'm also looking at this, I guess, more from the lens of standard than anywhere else. It probably won't impact the other formats terribly much if they're at that power level.

The "full party" idea seems like it's going to be a shitty mechanic in draft and worthless outside of casual. It's a pretty lazy design decision, and I don't think it'd actually be something fun to build around in the first place. Maybe if they built off of Ikoria's weird counter mechanics and let you turn other creatures into these different types, then provided lord-like effects or something, it'd at least be a fun casual mechanic.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

I dunno how I feel about the concept, specifically for dealing with control. Lands coming in tapped isn't a huge concern for them on the first turn or two, and Uro can easily drop them down on a turn where you wouldn't care if they came in tapped anyways. Three mana for that effect at instant-speed in red seems pretty solid to me, given the opportunity cost just does not seem that high to me.

But I'm also looking at this, I guess, more from the lens of standard than anywhere else. It probably won't impact the other formats terribly much if they're at that power level.

Well, this gives the game cards that "count as lands" early game and can be "spells" in the later game. These are not quite on par with the BiTricycle lands but they will fit the same niche, if the spell sides are as okayish they will be good cards that you will be solid 2 ofs in a deck and Valakut Awakening is very solidly an okay end of turn effect if you are flooding out.

If mono-red exists in standard as a deck this should see some level of play just for the ability to be able to provide some flood prevention.

 

[Flexo]

The, flip lands are..sort of okayish, if Valakut awakening is the power level we can expect for the 5 then I will be happy with it.

They are not the only flip lands in the set.

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/collecting-zendikar-rising-2020-09-01

The DND PARTY mechanic shit is fucking exceptional, and the fact that we are going to official "forgotten realms" as a real mainline set is fucking pathetic (oh and Innistrad again lul)

I am rather shocked (but not that shocked) that D&D is so far from the set which introduces PARTY as a mechanic.

Didn't Mark just complain about their sets not blending well???

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

They are not the only flip lands in the set.

I was more referring to the spell/land combos, like these don't even really need to be talked about.

"Semi Dual lands that don't come into play tapped." that instantly puts them at a 6 or 7.

I am rather shocked (but not that shocked) that D&D is so far from the set which introduces PARTY as a mechanic.

It won't matter really, Party as a mechanic is absolute trash and will do nothing at all. (Btw Confirmed that Changlings can only count as party member per party so no cheating it)

This set is going to somehow be worse than Battle for Zendikar block.

 

[Flexo]

t won't matter really, Party as a mechanic is absolute trash and will do nothing at all. (Btw Confirmed that Changlings can only count as party member per party so no cheating it)

Yeah, they confirmed you really do have to have 4 creatures out to get full party buffs - they even revealed a green Elf that had all 4 classes on her. I like it better than ally.

I am half hoping there is a decent legendary party member in the set, I'm half interested in seeing if I could make a party commander deck - especially one that gets the party together with tokens.

And I don't mean Tazri because I don't know if I can stand having a commander that fugly. (even though she is clearly meant to be the party commander)

Heh. Looks like the leaked Nissa was accurate.

 

[Flexo]

What the HELL is a Yargle?

https://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-news/secret-lair-yargle/

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

I like it better than ally.

The First iteration of Ally was a great "Fixed" Sliver mechanic.

The Party shit is an absolute abomination, for it to work in an EDH deck you will have to have..

The Good Party Support Cards
The Good cards in each Party Pie.
The Good EDH staples.

This will leave very little room for any tribal support (if there is any) for your 4 different tribes, which means your entire deck is very rarely ever going to work..because you either need to draw the 1/4 of your deck dedicated to a specific tribe..OR have 5 Different tribes on your field and a party payoff. This mechanic could have been made far better if you just have it be based on "Different creature types" instead of the "LUL DND TROPES"

I don't even think the "race" tribal decks could use Party sensibly since most of the humans in it are "off party tribes".same with Goblins and they are the most likely decks to use it I think.

What the HELL is a Yargle?

https://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-news/secret-lair-yargle/

https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/c/dc2efd68-98ff-4ddb-8a74-bac0ef5a6561.jpg?1580844605

 

[Flexo]

The First iteration of Ally was a great "Fixed" Sliver mechanic.

The Party shit is an absolute abomination, for it to work in an EDH deck you will have to have..

The Good Party Support Cards
The Good cards in each Party Pie.
The Good EDH staples.

This will leave very little room for any tribal support (if there is any) for your 4 different tribes, which means your entire deck is very rarely ever going to work..because you either need to draw the 1/4 of your deck dedicated to a specific tribe..OR have 5 Different tribes on your field and a party payoff. This mechanic could have been made far better if you just have it be based on "Different creature types" instead of the "LUL DND TROPES"

You act like I'm some sort of hyper competitive netdecker. I don't care about staples.

They probably didn't go with the different creature types because of the rules headache they would run into.

i.e. like you brought up, one changeling on the field and suddenly all the party stuff sucks.

Plus at least this mechanic has a cap of 4. Probably a good thing after the mess of the last few sets.

 

[Salt_Merchant]

What the HELL is a Yargle?

https://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-news/secret-lair-yargle/

jesus, it was a hard fought battle but this may infact be the cringiest thing WOTC are gunna do this year

Yargles a fucking meme card from a single set, whos only reason for existing was ot give dominaria a mono black legendary at uncommon and to fill in a hole in the power and toughness grid.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

You act like I'm some sort of hyper competitive netdecker. I don't care about staples.

Yes but not being "Hyper competitive" doesn't mean "I am going to stick this 2/4 rogue with reach in my deck instead of disenchant"

They probably didn't go with the different creature types because of the rules headache they would run into.

i.e. like you brought up, one changeling on the field and suddenly all the party stuff sucks.

Well, expanding the number of creature types wouldn't really change how changelings work, I was just pointing out that they kneecapped the one interesting interaction the mechanic could have with their current template.

Like what is a changeling gonna do..make Taziri cost 1 on turn 2?

Okay you have a 4/6 with an ability you might be able to activate..and not do anything with cause it took all your mana.

Plus at least this mechanic has a cap of 4. Probably a good thing after the mess of the last few sets.

The cap wouldn't matter..due to the wording it will always have a cap of how many creatures you would have, sure if you go massively wide you could twist yourself into a massive trigger but like best case scenario..you have an overrun for your "party" number. If you open it up to any creature you still have to go very wide to "break" it.

Like, lets say we will have a card that says "If you have a full party you win the game."

That is..6 Cards to win the game. That..is not powerful.

My Infinite Gonti is 4..and That is fucking super jank.

 

[Flexo]

jesus, it was a hard fought battle but this may infact be the cringiest thing WOTC are gunna do this year

Yargles a fucking meme card from a single set, whos only reason for existing was ot give dominaria a mono black legendary at uncommon and to fill in a hole in the power and toughness grid.

You..... you serious?

That is a whole new level of cringe.

Well, expanding the number of creature types wouldn't really change how changelings work, I was just pointing out that they kneecapped the one interesting interaction the mechanic could have with their current template.

Like what is a changeling gonna do..make Taziri cost 1 on turn 2?

Okay you have a 4/6 with an ability you might be able to activate..and not do anything with cause it took all your mana.

The cap wouldn't matter..due to the wording it will always have a cap of how many creatures you would have, sure if you go massively wide you could twist yourself into a massive trigger but like best case scenario..you have an overrun for your "party" number. If you open it up to any creature you still have to go very wide to "break" it.

Like, lets say we will have a card that says "If you have a full party you win the game."

That is..6 Cards to win the game. That..is not powerful.

My Infinite Gonti is 4..and That is fucking super jank.

You're not specifying how you want the mechanic to work.

Pseudo text 1: "Each different type you have in play." - In this version, changelings now go insane. 1 cheap changeling in play and this guy:

Hits the table as a 252/252 with flying and vigilance.

Or this angel:

Congrats on your new 502 life total.

Pseudo text 2: "Each creature you control with different types" - well now changeling hosed you in the reverse because now your count is always 1 - because you can't play or have any additional creatures with different types because changeling would match it.

In addition to the insane rules snarl that you'd spark trying to properly define the details in these rules and after mutate, it becomes pretty obvious why the team probably just said: "Fuck it, get these 4 pieces together to do cool things."

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

You're not specifying how you want the mechanic to work.

I would like it to work one of two ways.

Either let creatures with proper types count for more than one

OR

Let more than just the 4 Trope Classes work with it so that your could use party in a (non 5 Color Human lul) deck not fully dedicated to that very thing mechanic.

Hits the table as a 252/252 with flying and vigilance.

With no trample, or haste in a multiplayer game, which also requires you to have another creature on the field through resolution in a multiplayer game.

Congrats on your new 502 life total.

Kay, I've seen much worse in commander, also requiring that changling to stick on the field in a multiplayer game.

I am not really..afraid of either of those. Sure I might get got by the 200/200 creature.

Sometimes you get got by bad shit, that is why I have my Rule of 3 "Proper" Planeswalkers in my EDH decks..because once in a while they get people.

 

[Salt_Merchant]

You..... you serious?

That is a whole new level of cringe.

yeah man, yargle got picked up by the internet content machine because

1) its a funny word to say if your a moron/child/both

2) its a spirit frog,

kinda like that haemonculus from return to rav who had plushies made of it and appeared on cards in war of the spark,



As for party, just seems like a waste of a mechanic what was actually wrong with ally? shoehorning every card into one of 4 creature types seems pretty stifling.

 

[Flexo]

I would like it to work one of two ways.

Either let creatures with proper types count for more than one

OR

Let more than just the 4 Trope Classes work with it so that your could use party in a (non 5 Color Human lul) deck not fully dedicated to that very thing mechanic.

They've already said you'll only need at minimum 2 colors to get a full party. Heck Wizard and warrior are the 2 most common creature classes in the game. Cleric has 418 possible selections (W: 270, U: 14, B: 65, R: 7, G: 15 - only checked pure colors, skipped multi) while Rogue is the thinnest with 248 (W: 3, U: 81, B: 91, R: 56, G: 15). And that's just with the current list and a few of the releases. Given anything not beast in Zendi3 seems to have one of the 4 classes on it, all those numbers look to increase.

With no trample, or haste in a multiplayer game, which also requires you to have another creature on the field through resolution in a multiplayer game.

Oh man, if only lightning greaves existed. Whatever shall we do?

Kay, I've seen much worse in commander, also requiring that changling to stick on the field in a multiplayer game.

I am not really..afraid of either of those. Sure I might get got by the 200/200 creature.

Sometimes you get got by bad shit, that is why I have my Rule of 3 "Proper" Planeswalkers in my EDH decks..because once in a while they get people.

Yeah, people are going to invest so much to take out your Universal automaton. Oh wait, you don't even have to. Just cast Shields of velis vel on whatever you got on the field and then your party plans can go off.

Of course, changeling is also in a little format called modern but sure, we can break that format some more - no problem.

As for party, just seems like a waste of a mechanic what was actually wrong with ally? shoehorning every card into one of 4 creature types seems pretty stifling.

Mark admitted in his state of design that they're not happy the sets don't have much cross play. "Ally" is incredibly parasitic, "locking" those creatures into zendikar 3 only decks. At least this design of party allows you to pull more cards from outside the set into your party deck for fun.

i.e.

 

[Memento Malum]

The party mechanic is pretty obvious seeding for the overlap between ZNR and the DND set. WOTC likes to do that all the time (see the cavaliers from M20 and adamant cards from ELD working very well with devotion from THB for a quick example). Will come up in Limited and every other format will just ignore the "party" text as useless ribbons.

The new Linvala is a good example; she can theoretically lock down a opponent's permanent if you have the party thing going, but 99.9% of the time she's going to be a 3/3 flier for 3 that blanks opposing boardwipes.

The dual DFC cycle is probably ok powerlevel wise (although the uneven cycle annoys me), but I'm very worried about the cycle that has a spell on one side and is a land on the other. Stapling spells to lands has always proven to be incredibly powerful, and I'm not convinced that this will be the exception here. Maybe if all the spells are unplayably bad, but even then the opportunity cost to putting them in your deck is almost nil.

 

[Rich Evans Apologist]

It would be easy to fix up ally cards by making them modal. Fuck, you could even blend it in with this mechanic - make a cleric ally that gets a benefit if you play a cleric. It gets a different benefit if you play an ally. Bang! You support an old archetype that was kindof fun in the original block in a way that's more creative than the scrap that was in bfz/ogw... and you can fit it in with this stupid hybrid-tribal idea.

Really, the 'party' idea should just be concerned about the number of different creatures you have with a creature type not shared by other creatures. Rather than picking four very specific tribes which, to me, don't even really make fucking sense - we've got warlocks, archers, monks, soldiers, knights... why are only -those four- types out adventuring? It just reads in such a clunky way, too. Yes, suggesting that a saproling is a party member is maybe weird, or that 100 saprolings only counts 1 towards the party is weird... but 1000 rogues also only count 1 towards the party.

It's just such a frail, flimsy, needlessly limited idea.

 

[Salt_Merchant]

Mark admitted in his state of design that they're not happy the sets don't have much cross play. "Ally" is incredibly parasitic, "locking" those creatures into zendikar 3 only decks. At least this design of party allows you to pull more cards from outside the set into your party deck for fun.

Id like to think that a company that pays people this much to create their game would be able to come up with a solution that wasnt, abandon a core mechanic people liked from the orgiinal zendikar that also has a terrible janky modern deck built around it.

People liked allies, so much so that Rise of the eldrazi getting rid of them was a central complaint.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

They've already said you'll only need at minimum 2 colors to get a full party.

Being able to do it using bad cards, just means you are playing subpar cards..You can do a full part in two colors now..but really are you going to play Whirler Rogue..in your party deck?

Oh man, if only lightning greaves existed. Whatever shall we do?

Oh man if only there were spells with less than 3 mana that exist to kill creatures, sure you might be able to sneak it in all in one turn. But a 7 mana 3 Card Combo to oneshot one player? EHHHH

Yeah, people are going to invest so much to take out your Universal automaton. Oh wait, you don't even have to. Just cast Shields of velis vel on whatever you got on the field and then your party plans can go off.

If it means there isn't a 200/200 on the field?

Also your plan now involves..3 Cards and an extra mana? This is an ETB trigger not a cast trigger. There are plenty of easy answers to this situation. Common ones.

changeling is also in a little format called modern

I would love to see this attempted in Modern, Against the Odds indeed.

Mark admitted in his state of design that they're not happy the sets don't have much cross play. "Ally" is incredibly parasitic, "locking" those creatures into zendikar 3 only decks. At least this design of party allows you to pull more cards from outside the set into your party deck for fun.

My solution to that would be to make Allys outside of Zendikar, to define "Ally" in the exact same way slivers and (battlebond) Partners were very clearly defined.

it is pretty telling that the best Party card so far is good because it is a 3/3 Flying for 3 with a Detain trigger stapled on if you have a full party.

Yes, suggesting that a saproling is a party member is maybe weird,

I mean..Saprolings go between plant like creatures and sentient blobs.

and..well Groot..and The Kid who got reincarnated as a slime are members of parties.

 

[Opiophile]

Good Lord. I come back to this thread every once and a while since I quit playing to torture myself and I inevitably end up cringing so fucking hard. The Godzilla crossover shit was so lame, but that was only implemented as bonus shit on Arena and foils right? Shoehorning in DND shit into the game mechanics is so fucking lazy, and then making the mechanic be nonsensical is even more absurd.

In my opinion, WotC is a lot like Blizzard. They used to be gods among men, making some really amazing shit every year and blowing people away with their creativity. Now all that's left is a husk of that greatness, with a bunch of SJW children running the show, and playtesting these new sets. They are absolutely incapable with their current staff to create anything compelling, interesting, and especially well balanced. It's either boring bland shit like Aether Revolt/Ixalan (no offense Ixalan fanboys, I just didn't enjoy the set) or a Companion/Oko/Uro broken shitshow.

I can just see the pitch meeting. A bunch of women with purple hair and a few soyboy faggots sitting around in a board room thinking these retarded mechanics are good ideas. The fact that these people missed Oko AND the Companions being so broken is completely insane to me and removes any expectation that they can actually do their job to a respectable degree.

Maybe I'm just a cynical autist, but I'd love nothing more than to have good, decently balanced sets made by people who actually give a fuck about the game, and don't want to poison said game and it's community with their ideology.