Incel and Lonely Men Debate thread - Defend men giving up or tell them otherwise

[Lord of the Large Pants]

so not only is being an incel a social failing, not only is it a personal failing, it's also a moral failing.

This one has really started to chafe my thighs lately. People constantly say that you shouldn't view sex as a reward for being a good person, but then assume that lack of sex is a punishment for bad karma. If you're a virgin, it must be because you're a bad person.

A moment's thoughts will tell you that this makes no sense. In every other area of life, we acknowledge that we live in an unjust world. Life isn't fair. Sometimes the good die young and the wicked get rich and powerful. Why? Nobody knows. It just is. But somehow that all goes out the window when it comes to sex. What horrible evil did you commit that you're still a virgin, you monster?

Because if the answer is "nothing", maybe it's not entirely the fault of the individual. Maybe society has some role to play here. Maybe cultural social dynamics are bigger than one person, and no individual can control what's happened to dating because of social media and dating apps and the economy. And maybe, just MAYBE, women are blaming men for not living up to their standards when only a fraction of a percentage of the population can ever hope to meet those standards.

But that would mean women would have to take responsibility for their own actions. So that can't be right.

I'm not bitter.

 

[Agares]

This one has really started to chafe my thighs lately. People constantly say that you shouldn't view sex as a reward for being a good person, but then assume that lack of sex is a punishment for bad karma. If you're a virgin, it must be because you're a bad person.

A moment's thoughts will tell you that this makes no sense. In every other area of life, we acknowledge that we live in an unjust world. Life isn't fair. Sometimes the good die young and the wicked get rich and powerful. Why? Nobody knows. It just is. But somehow that all goes out the window when it comes to sex. What horrible evil did you commit that you're still a virgin, you monster?

Because if the answer is "nothing", maybe it's not entirely the fault of the individual. Maybe society has some role to play here. Maybe cultural social dynamics are bigger than one person, and no individual can control what's happened to dating because of social media and dating apps and the economy. And maybe, just MAYBE, women are blaming men for not living up to their standards when only a fraction of a percentage of the population can ever hope to meet those standards.

But that would mean women would have to take responsibility for their own actions. So that can't be right.

I'm not bitter.

They want to condition people, and especially men, to accept slop. Work 50 hours a week at a job where you're micromanaged and treated like a disposable cog, come home to an empty apartment that you can barely afford and watch media that endlessly shits on you, eat unhealthy food that costs an arm and a leg (it was cheaper 5 years ago) and if you get lonely, pay for Tinder premium and Onlyfans. And don't you DARE complain you entitled pissbaby INCEL! You are not entitled to a decent social life and community that cares about you. If you want those things, PAY for them like a decent human being (tm). Wokies were just useful idiots in all this, but so are the unhinged incels who want to enslave women and be pedos. They shut down any productive dialogue we could have about men's issues and thus, nothing gets done.

That's the social great reset. Not only will you own nothing, you will HAVE nothing and be happy. Or else you'll face the wrath of the media and social conditioning.

 

[Forsaken Wanderer]

@California Newt
Apologies this is the first chance I've had to sit down and write something, and I'm not even sitting because I'm about to run to the kitchen to microwave a pie for dinner and finish off the cask wine. All I do is work, chores, sleep, and it's not even a nice sleep because as soon as I sit down I instantly fall asleep. I can't even hold a drink because I might fall asleep at any moment and spill it.

You say you don't believe in anything, then listed four things that you believe in.

What I mean is that if someone was to ask me what camp I was in when it came to atheism, agnostic, wiccan, christian etc I don't have an answer. All I know is that there is such a thing as pure evil, there is something that could be described as demonic and the world is in it's grasp, and that we probably shouldn't ever attempt to understand how there is no beginning to the universe and how it's infinite as it would destroy us.

Usually my mindset might be called nihilistic because I don't see what is in front of me, I see the likely future, I see the thousands of work days left playing out, I see everything on this planet turning to dust and our species being forgotten, I see that when I clean the dishes today I'll be cleaning the dishes again tomorrow, and the next day, and every day until I die. All I see are the patterns repeating and that everything exists in a cycle of birth and death.

I may not fully understand the goings ons in church but what I mean is that I don't think it will help this purgatory-like existence I am in as for one I wouldn't even be able to find time to go to church.

And what church is even safe now? Most of them have allowed the devil inside and fly the AIDS flag. My local church put out pamphlets that have a white woman and a brown man on it, that is Blackrock Jew shit, if even churches have to follow those guidelines then they are truly fucked. And I remember what they did during the scamdemic as well.


I do need something to live for, understanding the world around you doesn't bring a want to live, you have to feel happiness from what you do in your life and if you don't then what is the point in anything.

I've not had a chance to read your PDFs on finding spiritual meaning yet but as to your post on beauty and virtue, I know that virtue comes from culture, ethnicity and faith. We used to value honor and conviction. Jews and Muslims value child fucking, we find it abhorrent. There is no universal human virtue, and ours were what kept men and women honest and civilizations in bloom.

Beauty I'm not as certain if something is universally beautiful or if it also comes from our culture and faith, but I'm leaning heavily towards the latter. Old school stone churches are a thing of beauty, the modern neo-churches are ugly things that look like convention centers.

I'm so sick of the ugliness and the hedonistic virtueless freaks that have taken over this world that only think about what benefits them. Our ancestors would work on projects they knew they wouldn't live to see to completion because they had the future generations in mind, as as you say that probably does require faith in god, now the faggots of today ask for Youtube mass censorship and then complain when their 6 hour video game analysis gets taken down for one word uttered.

Does your church feel legit still or is there signs of globohomo corruption creeping in like a dark mist?


@gang weeder
Does anyone really want to be depressed though? If someone really is depressed then what part of it is enjoyable enough that you want it to continue rather than trying to stop it.

We went from the edgy 2000s:


To something perhaps a bit more uplifting:


@cybertoaster
Well at least the third worlders aren't being genocided by 50 different agendas pushed by foreign powers. Seriously though, you only have time to get philosophical about the meaningless of life when you live in a fairly safe environment with food and a roof over your head and time to spare.

If you are living in a crime ridden favela then it's somewhat like being a wild animal, you are too busy surviving to really ponder your situation in life. If you had a lack of joy in life you would either die young or never really get to think about it. That is just what my guess is though, but I'll find out soon enough since the third world is coming to my neighborhood.

* * * * * * * * * * *
In any case I'm glad we have all found our way here and are all able to speak freely, hate or love incels, it's mentally healthy to make your thoughts manifest without a bot taking it away from you.

And BTW women are whores, they fucked up dating and relationships, and now they want to complain about being lonely when all they have to do is aim a little lower than Henry Cavil.

This one has really started to chafe my thighs lately. People constantly say that you shouldn't view sex as a reward for being a good person, but then assume that lack of sex is a punishment for bad karma. If you're a virgin, it must be because you're a bad person.

A moment's thoughts will tell you that this makes no sense. In every other area of life, we acknowledge that we live in an unjust world. Life isn't fair. Sometimes the good die young and the wicked get rich and powerful. Why? Nobody knows. It just is. But somehow that all goes out the window when it comes to sex. What horrible evil did you commit that you're still a virgin, you monster?

Because if the answer is "nothing", maybe it's not entirely the fault of the individual. Maybe society has some role to play here. Maybe cultural social dynamics are bigger than one person, and no individual can control what's happened to dating because of social media and dating apps and the economy. And maybe, just MAYBE, women are blaming men for not living up to their standards when only a fraction of a percentage of the population can ever hope to meet those standards.

But that would mean women would have to take responsibility for their own actions. So that can't be right.

I'm not bitter.

Well put brother.

I know you are being sarcastic but never let go of that bitterness. We have been wronged and we should not forgive until we either have control of women (through authority and power) or they recognize what they have done and change for the better (never going to happen).

They say you can't shame a woman for sleeping around while shaming virgin men. Always the assumption is that if you are a virgin male them you are horrible inside and out, the idea that men are put in a no win situation by society is never considered.

What gets me is that women really don't appear to understand what they are doing. How is it that a species as advanced as us can have a gender that follows instincts so mindlessly they can't even see they are leading themselves to an unhappy life by endlessly chasing Chad and abandoning most of their own men in the process.

 

[cybertoaster]

Some dude was talking about this netflix anime "ojisan from another world", gave it a look because they said there were a few SEGA jokes there (there were a ton, and it gets old quick). Anyway the reason why I bring this up is because it makes a classic anime mistake:

"If only I wasn't so clueless I would've a gf!" (when the MC remembers the past.)

No you wouldn't, this is some huge trope I see a lot. But its all headgames, or distorted memories. She didn't have hidden feelings for you, she wasn't sending you signals, its all in your head dude, she was never interested. If she had then she would've kept going, trust me I know because I had a stalker chick and no she wasn't hot, this is real life not a fucking anime. I seen this shit happen even IRL, is like dudes having a crush on a girl for years, a girl that never even talked to them, ever. And no the chick who bullied you wasn't secretely in love with you, she hated your ass.

Its all cope to avoid accepting reality, its magical thinking that if you just did this and that you would've won at life. Thinking "If I didn't play videogames/if I wasn't on the internet I would be popular" is fantasy, it doesn't work like that, odds are you were like that because you had nothing going IRL. And thinking that's what happened will destroy you, you've to learn to live with what you got even if its not what you want and it feels unfair, because life is unfair but you only get one life.

It is what it is, and don't try to get isekai'd by running in front of a truck 'cause last time that happened I had to change my radiator, shit cost me a ton.

I think incels have become the ultimate scapegoat.

Incels are this era's designated punching bag, all the talk about "don't punch down" but really how lower than incels can you punch? I would argue they are at the bottom now, haven't seen anyone saying anything good about incels, at best they get ignored. Even the conservatives hate incels, they don't even bother to fake concern for some political gain, even as the number of incels increases every year.

If you are living in a crime ridden favela then it's somewhat like being a wild animal

Nah I didn't met any of those, you nuts? you go cruisin' thru the projects? walk thru compton just because you're in LA? Come on, I'm talking the middle class of those countries, problem is everything gone to shit so hard even they were struggling. That's why I been saying for a while there's not gonna be a collapse, no SHTF, we're going straight to being like brazil. There was some economist beck-something that said the same but his case was just economics, like all jobs are gonna pay shit, economic inequality is going to reach insane levels. I'm talking complete brazilification: systemic corruption, rampant violent crime, shitty living standards, etc etc. BTW they get gendershit and other [current year] bullshit too, on top of everything else.

 

[California Newt]

@Forsaken Wanderer

All I know is that there is such a thing as pure evil, there is something that could be described as demonic and the world is in it's grasp

True.

there is no beginning to the universe

Not true. You're falling for demoralization propaganda. Don't mainstream atheists even believe in the big bang? Where are you getting this pre-eternal universe stuff?

And what church is even safe now? Most of them have allowed the devil inside and fly the AIDS flag. My local church put out pamphlets that have a white woman and a brown man on it, that is Blackrock Jew shit, if even churches have to follow those guidelines then they are truly fucked. And I remember what they did during the scamdemic as well.

There are not fundamentally new problems. The Church has been persecuted since it's inception. Even during the Byzantine empire there were tons of heresies promoted because it aligned with the political goals of local rulers. Saints were exiled and martyred all the time.

There are jurisdictions of the Orthodox Church that are better and worse on these things, and within those there are parishes that are better or worse. Generally Orthodox are very openly anti-LGBT acceptance. There are exceptions in jurisdictions that are more aligned to the USA geopolitically, such as within GOARCH and the EP if I'm not mistaken. Even then, I'm pretty sure it's rare. Russian jurisdictions like ROCOR and the MP are generally seen as the most traditional, but Antioch is pretty good too.

If you legitimately have no time to look into these things, than I can only recommend asking God for help.

I've not had a chance to read your PDFs on finding spiritual meaning yet but as to your post on beauty and virtue, I know that virtue comes from culture, ethnicity and faith. We used to value honor and conviction. Jews and Muslims value child fucking, we find it abhorrent. There is no universal human virtue, and ours were what kept men and women honest and civilizations in bloom.

The good cultures you refer to believed that virtues are rooted in God. They were correct.

Does your church feel legit still or is there signs of globohomo corruption creeping in like a dark mist?

My parish is legit. My jurisdiction is canonical. No individual jurisdiction is automatically immune to corruption, but Orthodoxy will always survive. It survived the Pagans Romans, the Roman Catholics, the Ottomans, and the Soviets. This is not the first world power.

 

[Str8Bustah]

@Forsaken Wanderer Honestly the best thing I can advise you to do is go and visit a monastery for a short period. There's more than 20 of them dotted around the states, so you should be able to find one.

I'm not going to sell you some grand notion of spiritual awakening, but I do find that a lot of problems people have with the church are due to the fact that they never really get to experience it in its truest form, which I'd argue is the form that's kept alive by monastics.

At the very least if you give it a chance and go to a monastery, you might get a better understanding of where you stand in all this as you'd be giving yourself a chance to experience something that you'll likely not have experienced before.

 

[AWizard]

but so are the unhinged incels who want to enslave women and be pedos. They shut down any productive dialogue we could have about men's issues and thus, nothing gets done.

They definitely aren't helping. Just adding to the stockpile of insane things incels have said.

There was some economist beck-something

Ulrich Beck, I think he talked about traditional fixed jobs being replaced with short term precarious jobs, and the disappearance of the middle class?

 

[Spud]

until we have control of women (through authority and power)

Why would you want this? I'm not baiting just curious.

 

[Anasûrimbor Kellhus]

but so are the unhinged incels who want to enslave women and be pedos. They shut down any productive dialogue we could have about men's issues and thus, nothing gets done.

far more productive is conversations about shutting down the infinite gibs daddy government state. The whole idea we have to enslave woman is silly, just shut off the gibs that flow that staunch consequences for actions and problems resolve themselves. This will improve men's lot too, no more pooky and tyrone eating up your taxes via EBT.

so much of our problems is not really a "man" or "woman" thing. Its a consequence of us being so rich we decided to try and eliminate consequences from bad actions, then act all shocked when everyone is shit.

 

[Agares]

They definitely aren't helping. Just adding to the stockpile of insane things incels have said.

That's just what happens when you put a bunch of maladjusted spergs together in an echo chamber.

far more productive is conversations about shutting down the infinite gibs daddy government state. The whole idea we have to enslave woman is silly, just shut off the gibs that flow that staunch consequences for actions and problems resolve themselves. This will improve men's lot too, no more pooky and tyrone eating up your taxes via EBT.

so much of our problems is not really a "man" or "woman" thing. Its a consequence of us being so rich we decided to try and eliminate consequences from bad actions, then act all shocked when everyone is shit.

Holding women accountable for their stupid decisions and cutting off all the things that enable them would to a long way to fixing society. No more simps, no more enablers and no more preferential treatment. The closest we'll get to that for now is mass social shaming.

 

[Anasûrimbor Kellhus]

Holding women accountable for their stupid decisions and cutting off all the things that enable them would to a long way to fixing society. No more simps, no more enablers and no more preferential treatment. The closest we'll get to that for now is mass social shaming.

the nice part at least is that it will come anyways. The path we're on is axiomatically self-destructive. The only question is how painful will it be. We can PULL UP right now. Or we can hit terrain. Either way the tailspin ends.

 

[Agares]

the nice part at least is that it will come anyways. The path we're on is axiomatically self-destructive. The only question is how painful will it be. We can PULL UP right now. Or we can hit terrain. Either way the tailspin ends.

We'll still be left with a lot of unmarriageable women (and men) because of this mass brainrot.

 

[Anasûrimbor Kellhus]

We'll still be left with a lot of unmarriageable women (and men) because of this mass brainrot.

oh yeah it won't be pretty, but I like to think more on the long term. Perhaps none of the resolutions to these problems come in my life time, so be it if that's the case. Living in declining times isn't something new, but thanks to our knowledge of history we know that eventually, even if it takes decades or centuries, the rot *does* clear out eventually and new healthier flourishing societies will emerge.

I suspect we'll have quite a population crunch as too many age out of marriage and kids. Only question is how painful will those incels and femcels make it for the rest of society.

 

[figgernaggotte]

I suspect we'll have quite a population crunch as too many age out of marriage and kids. Only question is how painful will those incels and femcels make it for the rest of society.

Laughing too hard can, indeed, hurt quite a bit, but that's a risk I'm willing to take.

 

[Newfag14]

I'm not going to sell you some grand notion of spiritual awakening, but I do find that a lot of problems people have with the church are due to the fact that they never really get to experience it in its truest form, which I'd argue is the form that's kept alive by monastics.

At the very least if you give it a chance and go to a monastery, you might get a better understanding of where you stand in all this as you'd be giving yourself a chance to experience something that you'll likely not have experienced before.

Did you yourself actually live in a monastery and if that's the case, for how long did you do it ?
I did for many, many months, (but less then a year), having attended church services regularly for multiple years and I can tell you that one can get very bitter and resentful from such an experience, and I can only warn people from doing the same:
You will resent wasting the time you've spend there If you stay longer then a month, doing pretty much nothing materially productive with your life, doing chores for other people that can't give you anything in return but a prayer and some personal commentary from a viewpoint that is obviously rooted in a christian framework that they per se never leave due to their claim that their christianity is the absolut truth or because of their investment in it. You won't even find the "truest" form of practice because there isn't one (see the many schism over the last +2000 years if history as we know it is even a real thing). There are even many cases to be made against the monastic practice itself (see the writings of Martin Luther) and specifically against the way the orthos do it, like with the Hesychasm bit that Palamas guy himself went back on in his later writings after seeing that this practice just did the same damage to monks that the unceasing repetition of mantras did to yogis or buddhist monks, leaving them in a delirium, vomiting out the same words over and over.
It's also very degrading, even more so to a man, to constantly kneel, kiss the cross and the hand of some guy in a robe with a funny hat and be in a mindset where you are at fault for being a sinner (yes we all are horrible people when it comes down to it but still), being 100% reliant on some entity you maybe even never experienced yourself in any tangible way. This will further just fuel your resentment if you don't have it in you to submit to someone or something ...
When I see a nun or a monk I think I usually get a little sad because they tend to be nice people that would make great parents and or pillars of the community if they would not spend 40 or more hours a week doing some spiritual stuff. They are a lamp put under a basket.

But anyways for anyone reading this far:
Yes, It's great to life in a very disciplined way, yes, fasting can be good for your health, yes it's nice to attend church services and maybe just to sit in a garden and pet the monastery cat or goat for a while but I'd recommend just to visit and talk to some monks a bunch of times, and going to church with the intention to just network, skipping the up to 2h long church services and hope to find wholesome people that you can connect with, getting stuff done. If you are at a ROC chances are you'll have grannys that browse to many russian boomer conspiracy telegram channels, wich is always fun but also kinda annoying because they can have retarded opinions you'll have to navigate through to keep the peace.
I'd also recommend just reading Alfred Rosenbergs "Myth of the 20th Century" wich is pretty solid in it's perspective on christianity, avoiding the tendency of christian authors being in an echo-chamber and "The Philosophy of Facism" by Mario Palmeri because it's very life affirming and helped me out of being a filthy lefty NEET like 8 years ago.
Another fun thing: I got a take from a very old monk (not naming a rank but he was veeery high up even on a global scale) on magic shrooms and such that they are pretty much just a dangerous shortcut on experiencing the spiritual world without putting the time in to spiritual practices like deep prayer and you can't expect any protection from Christ. So yeah, do with that information as you see fit

 

[Mordecai "3 Finger" Brown]

Honestly the best thing I can advise you to do is go and visit a monastery for a short period. There's more than 20 of them dotted around the states, so you should be able to find one.

I'm not going to sell you some grand notion of spiritual awakening, but I do find that a lot of problems people have with the church are due to the fact that they never really get to experience it in its truest form, which I'd argue is the form that's kept alive by monastics.

At the risk of sounding like a moron, are these scattered American monasteries Christian?

 

[Newfag14]

@Forsaken Wanderer since he mentioned the dread of slaving away at a job:

Yes you will feel despair set in if you find yourself in a job that is not fulfilling but I found a way to cope with it because I have worked a lot of entry level jobs jobs when I was a drifter:

Try to do as much dumb stuff as possible during work.
simple as.

I mean everyone here still enjoys things , having a laugh consuming some sort of media, be it a silly meme, a funny TV-show or a good shit-post.
This ability to still enjoy things is the key to cope with a boring, soul sucking job, you just have to be creativ.

For example, if you have to talk a lot with customers because you work in retail or some kind of service job you can try to have fun conversations. Gather some knowledge about the stuff you are selling, study you surroundings and be perceptive of the person you are about to interact with and hit them with some stupid puns.
Subvert their expectations with actually giving them some absurdly accomodating customer-service. See your workplace as a stage for standup comedy and you will not only loosen up as a person, becoming more approachable and less autistic, increasing the chance to form a new human connection, but it will turn your frown upside down, if you want it or not. ( see fake smiling can improve mood, though there is a chance that those studies are just a psyop to trick wagies into smiling more tho lmao)

If it's a job that is more solitary I'd recommend comedy podcasts, decorating the workplace in a fun way, crafting stupid things with waste products like metal clippings or styrofoam, joking around with coworkers etc...


After you come home you may still have a feeling of despair because you'd remember just how bad things really are but at least you get through the work day way easier ^^.

 

[Agares]

I suspect we'll have quite a population crunch as too many age out of marriage and kids. Only question is how painful will those incels and femcels make it for the rest of society.

The dating pool will be more polluted than China's air. It'll be the ultimate lolcow harvest but people are gonna suck even more. Because bitter, undateable people who ruined their owned lives aren't good company.

 

[Anasûrimbor Kellhus]

The dating pool will be more polluted than China's air. It'll be the ultimate lolcow harvest but people are gonna suck even more. Because bitter, undateable people who ruined their owned lives aren't good company.

yeah I'd want to get away from any serious population centers within 10 years myself cause of this. Angry 30-40 something men and bitter spinsters at levels not seen since...... probably ever?

I'm not even concerned about their impact on the dating pool but on how they'll take their anger and frustration out on society. Especially with our current digital age they'll get sweeped into into some dangerous stuff.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

I think the issue with incels/femcels is that they have self-esteem so low and so utterly fucked that they won't see the solution to getting out of it requires them to take action.

Granted, in this era, I don't blame the average guy for not being able to afford the life his father or grandfather may have easily had access to.