Incel and Lonely Men Debate thread - Defend men giving up or tell them otherwise

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a common theme is feeling hopeless or out of control of your circumstances. The incel gives up because he thinks he does not have the power to get a gf, due to a mix of personal lacking and societal issues. Every girl wants Chad, plus they're all whores on social media anyway, Western society is doomed, that type of thing
At one point you have to admit a problem has crossed the line of just a rare anomaly to become systemic. I've mentioned "Whatever" before which is a novel and movie from the 90's. Back when that was made there were incels but they were very rare so they weren't taken seriously, even themselves had a more "aw shucks, well there's always next time!" attitude than the blackpill of today.

But those were genXs, as a millennial even before the incel thing went mainstream I was noticing that things were getting worse. The whole "college is a 24/7 sex party" movies told back then was a total lie to sell movie tickets. Even in frat houses not everybody was getting laid, I got laid more in highschool that in college, nuff said.

But the real inflection point were dating apps, not online dating which goes back all the way to the 90's, that one actually sort of worked and I did get lucky with okc back when it was a website and not yet another tinder clone owned by the match group. But tinder changed everything, it made even the mid girls who made the bulk of "approachable women" put on airs because now even the kind of hot men who wouldn't give them the time of day in public would DM them for a quicky.

Now consider if 5/10 below-average dudes were suddenly getting DMs from really hot women for a quicky, how many of them would settle with a 5/10 girl? or even a 7/10 above-average girl when they can get laid with a 10/10 almost on demand?

That's the situation with women now. Social media only compounds the problem by basically telling all confirmed spinsters that they are great the way they are. Its only when they get too old (mid 40s and up) when the veneer starts fading out and even corpos drop them because its bad optics for the brand to show haggard cat ladies with their products. But in the meantime they get nothing but praise, if they don't actively look for criticism in the bowels of the internet they wont ever see it, corpos will never make an empty egg carton joke but they have made many equivalent hurtful comments about men with no consequences.

Basically mass media reinforces a femcel-lite behavior, they don't go all the way but they are almost there, just have to openly call for most men to be killed.
The article is mostly a reply to The Pandemic of Lonely Men Not Women's Problem (Archive).
A typical "why aren't men stepping up?" article. Not even good for a rage-read.
While that article its nothing but basement-level misandry she does make a point here:

"With advances in women’s rights, women gained the ability to take care of themselves"

Except I'll argue that the big difference is that single women are no longer humilliated and peer-pressured to find a man. Its not just economics, you had women living alone and working for themselves 200 years ago, and there were always convents. But back then society shunned you for doing that while today single women are practically leonized by the state, the corpos and media.

However single men are still being humiliated, probably even more than before. Its asinine to believe this social asymmetry has no consequences.
Huh. Did not see that one coming.
You're FAMOUS now!
Or does the village thing cut only one way?
Do you have to ask? feminism has always from the start been the me!me!me! movement, it was literally started by rich western white women who thought their right to vote was more important than those of poorer mostly non-white men. They always try to latch themselves to any trendy movement to leech support and prestige, often being told by people like marx to fuck off back to bougie town (probably one of the few coherent thoughts hungry santa had). They hated the gays at first for not wanting to fuck them then learned to co-opt them, rinse & repeat.

If this woman wants the village to raise her child she could move to a kibbutz where that's how things worked, oh but you have to do actual work there! tilling the fields, repairing a tractor, they don't want some useless latte sipping blogger, and she wouldn't be caught death doing manual labor anyway.

This part: "If this were a town square, a hundred years ago, my neighbour would no doubt get off his arse and help carry my bags or watch my child while I do the return trip to get the second load."

How out of touch can she be? 100 years ago she would be called a whore with a little bastard and told to leave town.

So yeah she wants a free babysitter, would probably ask the state to force men to help her with her little hellspawn just like incels want state-provided gfs, the irony...
but women seem to have a stronger expectation that the world is there to help them.
They expect that because that has always being the status quo. Even in war women became war brides, slaves or maybe raped, but they were rarely killed unlike men, and if so it wasn't the kind of grisly deaths men and even boys suffered like being skinned alive and such.
110 percent, ensured. There's no reason for any man with self-preservation instincts remaining to do that in this age of zero-trust mercilessness.
If I see a woman who's about to be run over by a truck I wont do shit, and if you think I'm going to far consider that the guy who grabbed a girl who was about to get hit by a car because she was jaywalking got accused and sentenced for sexual assault for touching her arm.

Not taking the risk...
Some long time ago, a bunch of teenagers on black-pilled lookism internet forums decided to invent the term "incel", which was meant to be shorthand for involuntary celibate.
The term was invented by a woman, do some basic research before ranting...
Those men could be having one night stands or have fwb type situations.
They aren't, trust me.
 
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But tinder changed everything, it made even the mid girls who made the bulk of "approachable women" put on airs because now even the kind of hot men who wouldn't give them the time of day in public would DM them for a quicky.

It's not even hot men, I'd score with those women on the apps. Most of them were mid TBH but they were putting out for zero effort or investment on my part, I didn't even have to buy them a drink and they would often pay for the taxi to and from my apartment themselves. Tinder made it easy for these women to be low key whores without risking getting slut shamed by their peers that they would have back in the day.
 
I will say this. If you're a lonely guy get used to being alone with your thoughts. Develop your own inner monologue and improve yourself.
Second women are hypergamous, they want a strong guy who doesn't express his feelings no matter what they say. As a guy learn to be a stoic and in control of your emotions. You will be in plenty of situations as a man where stoicism and politeness will save your life.
It's okay to cry and dudes need dudes for a shoulder to cry on. Because at some point you need to be strong because no one else will be strong for you.
 
I think the biggest issue with all these types of threads is autistic people cannot generally tell they are autistic. This is because it is incredibly difficult to assess ones social awareness without possessing the social awareness to know you are missing social cues, so it kind of becomes a bit of a catch-22.

You'll run into these guys swearing up and down that regular guys cannot get laid because they think they are a regular guy with a regular set of social skills who cannot get laid, when in reality they lack the social awareness to perceive the fact that they are lacking in basic social skills. Then all these "regular guys" get together in an online space and push a narrative that it is impossible for a regular guy to have sex, but they all lack the general social awareness to perceive that they are surrounded by other men who are clearly mildly autistic as opposed to regular guys with regular social skills.

I read a quote one time that went something like, "Autism is like wearing a giant hat and you're the only one who can't see it." That's a perfect analogy for what is happening.
 
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I think the biggest issue with all these types of threads is autistic people cannot generally tell they are autistic. This is because it is incredibly difficult to assess ones social awareness without possessing the social awareness to know you are missing social cues, so it kind of becomes a bit of a catch-22.

You'll run into these guys swearing up and down that regular guys cannot get laid because they think they are a regular guy with a regular set of social skills who cannot get laid, when in reality they lack the social awareness to perceive the fact that they are lacking in basic social skills. Then all these "regular guys" get together in an online space and push a narrative that it is impossible for a regular guy to have sex, but they all lack the general social awareness to perceive that they are surrounded by other men who are clearly mildly autistic as opposed to regular guys with regular social skills.

I read a quote one time that went something like, "Autism is like wearing a giant hat and you're the only one who can't see it." That's a perfect analogy for what is happening.
A lot of guys now are far more anxious and low in confidence then in the past. All that really means is more NEET's and future suicides, but it's easier to project your personal failings onto society and act like you dropping out is a victory then admit you're just a dipshit.
 
Author Scott Galloway has written some interesting shit that he talks about in interviews on shows like Bill Maher.

In short, get the fuck off of dating apps, they are terrible for male users. The statistical data on interactions (and I know you understand that the companies running these apps do keep track of all this data, it exists for analysis) are blackpilling as fuck. 50 women to 100 men and 45 of those women are talking to just 10 of the men so 90 guys are competing for the attention of 5 women. That's why no one replies to you.

So once again the answer is: go touch grass. Join a community choir or a pottery class and meet some dorky girl who will suck your cock.
 
Author Scott Galloway has written some interesting shit that he talks about in interviews on shows like Bill Maher.

In short, get the fuck off of dating apps, they are terrible for male users. The statistical data on interactions (and I know you understand that the companies running these apps do keep track of all this data, it exists for analysis) are blackpilling as fuck. 50 women to 100 men and 45 of those women are talking to just 10 of the men so 90 guys are competing for the attention of 5 women. That's why no one replies to you.

So once again the answer is: go touch grass. Join a community choir or a pottery class and meet some dorky girl who will suck your cock.
The design actually nudges those stats to be what they are.

Men are visually oriented. Studies back it up. It’s not even just that we care more about looks, we engage in a fuck ton of what’s called “scanning”. We’re always looking around at whatever environment we’re in. Our job has been to detect threats, and along with that we learned to detect the opposite of threats.

A dating app is a completely different experience for men. It’s overstimulating.. look at all these girls to check out. We’ll populate a list and rank it.

Women might do things that look similar, like rank choices, but it’s not nearly as stimulating or serious for them. They probably message the top couple of percent of guys because it’s like a throwaway lottery ticket. They don’t really care.

So men would do a lot better trying to meet women in person because that’s when women will actually be paying attention
 
There's also the "number one or fuck off" element. I run a community group of limited capacity and receive applications for membership. We are tracked by a larger body and ranked in terms of participation and throughput.

We are always in the top 3, almost always in the top 2. We go a few weeks at #1, few weeks at #2. What is wild is that when we are at #1 my inbox is constantly exploding and when we are at #2 you hear crickets. People across the board seem to target #1 incessantly and ignore #2. It makes me wonder where else this human tendency is significant.
 
I think the biggest issue with all these types of threads is autistic people cannot generally tell they are autistic. This is because it is incredibly difficult to assess ones social awareness without possessing the social awareness to know you are missing social cues, so it kind of becomes a bit of a catch-22.

You'll run into these guys swearing up and down that regular guys cannot get laid because they think they are a regular guy with a regular set of social skills who cannot get laid, when in reality they lack the social awareness to perceive the fact that they are lacking in basic social skills. Then all these "regular guys" get together in an online space and push a narrative that it is impossible for a regular guy to have sex, but they all lack the general social awareness to perceive that they are surrounded by other men who are clearly mildly autistic as opposed to regular guys with regular social skills.

I read a quote one time that went something like, "Autism is like wearing a giant hat and you're the only one who can't see it." That's a perfect analogy for what is happening.
I'd believe that's a component, but if the main reason a bunch of guys are complaining about this is that they're all autistic and don't realize they're in a spergy echo chamber then we would expect to see/hear stories of dudes who fail romantically due to social skills, and that doesn't seem to be the case. I'm sure there is a larger cohort of men who are maladjusted enough to be poor romantic prospects, but there have always been a good segment of guys who are awkward and it was never too big of a problem, societally, even if it's worse now. Instead, though, you have men complaining that they seem basically invisible to the opposite sex. Something like...
Author Scott Galloway has written some interesting shit that he talks about in interviews on shows like Bill Maher.

In short, get the fuck off of dating apps, they are terrible for male users. The statistical data on interactions (and I know you understand that the companies running these apps do keep track of all this data, it exists for analysis) are blackpilling as fuck. 50 women to 100 men and 45 of those women are talking to just 10 of the men so 90 guys are competing for the attention of 5 women. That's why no one replies to you.

So once again the answer is: go touch grass. Join a community choir or a pottery class and meet some dorky girl who will suck your cock.
Huh yeah basically exactly like that.

You know, I think what we have here is a reinforcing, hybrid problem:
  • Autistic, internet-addled people funnel to online app to solve their problems, it's like DoorDash for dating, path of least resistance and all that. Issue is that it sucks for most men to use, chasing off those with any good alternatives and leaving only the top-5% chads who smash box constantly, and the super desperate losers with no other options
  • Nobody goes out into public to be social, there are strong social taboos these days against asking out strangers who are "just trying to do their job / work out / shop / mind their own business", meeting strangers is pretty much off-limits to awkward people as a result
  • Lots of these guys come from single-mother households, raised by female authority figures with no father figure, and are poorly prepared to actually navigate intersexual social situations - they take things girls tell them literally, they don't read subtext, they assume that if they're just honest about their feelings and try to be sensitive and understanding then they'll find success, which turns out predictably
It's like some kind of autism alloy, where maybe 20% of the problem is autism, and the other 80% is a social context that so exacerbates the issues of autism that unless you are slightly-above-average socially you're pretty much out of good options. You get 1/3 of dudes totally out of luck, 1/3 of dudes with middling success with anything they can get, and 1/3 of dudes well-adjusted enough to keep on the same as they always have, which roughly matches the statistics you see people trot out.
 
i have a simple solution to fix incels (and femcels): change voting laws so only people who are married are allowed to vote. civil unions are allowed

single men and single women will get their shit together real quick when they're treated like second class citizens (as they should be)

i'll take my nobel peace price now, thank you
 
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