Okay, so enough of this gay circlejerk (regarding Vox n shit.) I was wondering how a Judas character would fair, I believe he would be in Hell given what he did to Jesus.
too "real person" for the current vivziepop writing bullshit standards. Adam's from a tale about not listening to random talking animals and having to deal with consequences of knowing you broke the fucking rule-WAIT WHY THE FUCK WAS ADAM EVEN IN HEAVEN THEN WHAT THE FUCK
Anyways yeah considering jesus was a real dude the romans had on legal files for executing it's easy to go "yeah jesus' thief friend who betrayed his ass for a little money and then committed suicide over what he did is too real like hitler so he just stopped existing before going to hell or whatever"
Charlie acts and looks like she’s in her twenties despite being the daughter of a guy who met God once. Other overlords who look like they’re from the 18-19th centuries (ex. Maestro, the black guy) act like old nerds. Vox treats them like old nerds, and yet he patronizes Charlie like he would a news station intern. This dude should be, like, less than half her age. I used to think the different “realms” had their own weird time dilation thing but Helluva Boss contradicts this.
It could also just be like well... you know... the video game thing with the penguins in it where if a character is listed as 13'000 years old or some shit it actually is just 13 with them acting and looking like and being presented as a 13 year old kid... Or that flapjack thing where the guy that looks like a kid is actually in his 30s...
It's fucking weird inconsistent time shit regardless.
Anyways yeah considering jesus was a real dude the romans had on legal files for executing it's easy to go "yeah jesus' thief friend who betrayed his ass for a little money and then committed suicide over what he did is too real like hitler so he just stopped existing before going to hell or whatever"
I think he'll be in Greed Ring, but given how Jesus is a forgiving person he'll probably try and redeem him. Charlie is the closest we have to Hell Jesus.
too "real person" for the current vivziepop writing bullshit standards. Adam's from a tale about not listening to random talking animals and having to deal with consequences of knowing you broke the fucking rule-WAIT WHY THE FUCK WAS ADAM EVEN IN HEAVEN THEN WHAT THE FUCK
Anyways yeah considering jesus was a real dude the romans had on legal files for executing it's easy to go "yeah jesus' thief friend who betrayed his ass for a little money and then committed suicide over what he did is too real like hitler so he just stopped existing before going to hell or whatever"
It could also just be like well... you know... the video game thing with the penguins in it where if a character is listed as 13'000 years old or some shit it actually is just 13 with them acting and looking like and being presented as a 13 year old kid... Or that flapjack thing where the guy that looks like a kid is actually in his 30s...
It's fucking weird inconsistent time shit regardless.
I mean he'll born are basically immortal unless destroyed by holy weapons. Sinners presumably no longer age once they die.
I like to belive in either case it's Vivian and her friends living their fantasy of having the bodies of 20 somethings, the brains of special ed high-schoolers, and for all eternity no matter how old they do get.
I think he'll be in Greed Ring, but given how Jesus is a forgiving person he'll probably try and redeem him. Charlie is the closest we have to Hell Jesus.
Not gonna work according to hazbin verse world building all mortal sinners end up in the pride ring regardless of what their sin was that got then in hell. The other rings are essentially places the hellborn and deadly sins can go to embrace said sins they embody. Ranging from sloth being a world of spas and resorts where you can be lazy and take sleeping meds and or antidepressants all day, lust is one big red light district (even more so than sinners pride ring somehow) greed is one big circus and apparently were all the treasure and whatever they use for cash in hell is printed (and where the high ranking imp mafia operates) but none of them serve Dantes original purpose of punishing people who died from being gluttonous, anger prone and violent, or for the sake of lust.
Ps. In Dantes inferno judas as in the lowest circle of hell reserved for treachery. His role in getting jesus killed earned him the "honor" of being chewed up in Satan's mouth alongside the two guys who betrayed jullis Cesar and got him killed.
Okay, so enough of this gay circlejerk (regarding Vox n shit.) I was wondering how a Judas character would fair, I believe he would be in Hell given what he did to Jesus.
AFAIK judas isnt confirmed to be in hell or heaven. He did commit suicide which is a mortal sin. Theoretically given the right circumstances he could have repented in his final moment. There are cases of saints who jumped to their death but realized what they had done and repented before hitting the bottom.
However for the sake of the show he probably would be in hell. But given his actions after what he did I dont think he would be a powerful entity. His betrayal of Jesus drove him mad. I dont think he was proud of what he did. If anything he would probably be a despairing drunkard at a bar unable to forgive himself for his actions.
You know if you really think about viv is bushing back against the woke libtard agenda because she hasn't included the straight white male bad guy every other piece of media has.
She is stunning and brave for making LGBT inclusive bad guys. Breaking the mold. A true ally to the right wing cause
I still dont get why imps etc are below the sinners (other than the not having souls thing), wouldnt it make sense to have the other sins try to sabotage the redemption project effort, send their imp/succubus/etc minions after the sinners to tempt them away from progress? Supplying endless but unfulling and depressing amounts of free booze and sex etc to a point that isnt fun anymore for self destructive cycles?
If i were them i would be like 'ofc the embodiment of pride and his daughter are trying to undermine the whole concept of hell and what we are, including trying to take away sinners who got here because of OUR domains' especially greed, wrath and envy who would be more prickly about infringement on their space.
AFAIK judas isnt confirmed to be in hell or heaven. He did commit suicide which is a mortal sin. Theoretically given the right circumstances he could have repented in his final moment. There are cases of saints who jumped to their death but realized what they had done and repented before hitting the bottom.
However for the sake of the show he probably would be in hell. But given his actions after what he did I dont think he would be a powerful entity. His betrayal of Jesus drove him mad. I dont think he was proud of what he did. If anything he would probably be a despairing drunkard at a bar unable to forgive himself for his actions.
The Bible doesn't state where he ends up, but I mean, Jesus says stuff like,
"But woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had never been born."
– Mark 14:21
Which seems like a bleak thing to hear from Christ.
Not to mention, Judas doesn't repent, he realizes he was wrong, but instead of seeking penance, he just necks himself. Theoretically, could he have asked for God's forgiveness between the moment he dropped and his neck snapping? Maybe. But I personally wouldn't love those odds. A "fun" fact, is that in Catholic tradition, the Church doesn't declare that anyone is in Hell. In contrast, a Saint is someone who the Church believes that they have reason to believe is in Heaven.
There's a pretty unique Icon of The Last Supper, where when Judas is leaving to betray Christ, the halo that he and the other disciples have, is left behind.
In Dorothy Sayers, "The Man Born to Be King", Judas is depicted as a much more sympathetic figure, and his betrayal, while still obviously horrific, was a tragedy. Besides, the man, what little we know of him, was a friend to Jesus' and the other disciples for years. Whoever he was, there was obviously more to him than just one moment, but of course, that one terrible moment overshadows everything else.
I don't know of any saints who did this, though the Church does teach that its possible for that to have happened in a general sense. Are you thinking of the documentary The Bridge from '06? There was a guy who tried to kill himself by jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge, before realizing halfway down that he wanted to live and that he could solve all his problems if it weren't for the fact he just jumped off a bridge. The guy lucked out and lived, but he was hospitalized for basically breaking his everything.
I've spoiled the Catholic Catechism's writing on suicide below for length.
“Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of” (#2280).
“Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God” (#2281).
“If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law. Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide” (#2282).
“We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways know to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for people who have taken their own lives” (#2283).
Adam's from a tale about not listening to random talking animals and having to deal with consequences of knowing you broke the fucking rule-WAIT WHY THE FUCK WAS ADAM EVEN IN HEAVEN THEN WHAT THE FUCK
Also she's a total Pollyanna for being supposedly a couple hundred years old. She acts like someone a lot younger. Even Stolas acts more mature and in touch with reality despite being by far her junior. When introduced in the pilot, she seemed like a bright but innocent person who pretty much needed to be protected by the more realistic and cynical Vaggie.
How does this work? It doesn't. It's fucking broken.
Not to mention, Judas doesn't repent, he realizes he was wrong, but instead of seeking penance, he just necks himself. Theoretically, could he have asked for God's forgiveness between the moment he dropped and his neck snapping? Maybe. But I personally wouldn't love those odds. A "fun" fact, is that in Catholic tradition, the Church doesn't declare that anyone is in Hell. In contrast, a Saint is someone who the Church believes that they have reason to believe is in Heaven.
That's Judas's mortal sin, if he didn't repent. It's called the "sin of despair," in that it takes a certain amount of arrogance to believe that you can commit a sin that is beyond the power of God to forgive.
It's pretty much the central tenet of Christianity, and more specifically Catholicism, that there is absolutely nobody beyond redemption.
Exploring "but what about people already in Hell?" could have been a fascinating premise, if anyone involved had done their homework.
There's a pretty unique Icon of The Last Supper, where when Judas is leaving to betray Christ, the halo that he and the other disciples have, is left behind.
I don't know of any saints who did this, though the Church does teach that its possible for that to have happened in a general sense. Are you thinking of the documentary The Bridge from '06? There was a guy who tried to kill himself by jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge, before realizing halfway down that he wanted to live and that he could solve all his problems if it weren't for the fact he just jumped off a bridge. The guy lucked out and lived, but he was hospitalized for basically breaking his everything.
I have been wracking my brain trying to remember what i am referencing. it is one of those things i heard multiple times growing up and i could have sworn it was a real story of real people.
The story as i remember it is that a girl's brother is not right in the head and takes his own life. The sister is in despair over this and an angel tells her that her brother repented before hitting the bottom. or something very very loosely along those lines. although if someone is mentally ill enough there is also the question of how responsible are they in the first place.
I could be totally off on this but the story as i remember manages to stay around and i think about it every so often.
that is a fuckin brutal message. I dont sway either way on where he is since its none of my business but id like to think he was given once last chance.
I know of at least one story that says that demons are still redeemable but they never will be because they choose not to. If you want to look into that saint paisios is a good place to look. I dont know if its an official teaching or not and he is not recognized by the catholic church. I believe he is an eastern orthodox saint.
which is honestly pretty close to hazbin hotel and i think its specifically mentioned in the pilot that nobody there even wants redemption.
I find this particular story a little too niche for viv to know about so i doubt its related.
I know of at least one story that says that demons are still redeemable but they never will be because they choose not to. If you want to look into that saint paisios is a good place to look. I dont know if its an official teaching or not and he is not recognized by the catholic church. I believe he is an eastern orthodox saint.
I forget where I read it but one theory of Hell is it is not some vengeful punishment from God that sends you to Hell. It is that you deliberately separate yourself from God and the absence of God is what Hell actually is. That is to say, if you are in Hell, you are actively choosing it.
I forget where I read it but one theory of Hell is it is not some vengeful punishment from God that sends you to Hell. It is that you deliberately separate yourself from God and the absence of God is what Hell actually is. That is to say, if you are in Hell, you are actively choosing it.
I know what you are talking about. That is more or less the catholic teaching i believe. You chose during your earthly life that you dont want God. So when you die you get exactly what you chose, an eternity without God. God doesnt send anyone anywhere. You choose where you go.
Honestly what hell actually is doesnt matter all that much. I highly doubt its some realm of fire or ice because what would be the point of physical pain in a non-physical world? I tend to think that the absence of God is all hell is. An eternity without joy/happiness/meaning and never being able to be with the one entity you were created to be with.
edit: the physical pain would make sense after God returns everyone's perfect body at the very end. I forgot about that little tidbit lol
Nah, he has limits. "Go and sin no more" is one of his popular quotes for a reason. It's just that it takes a lot for him to see someone as unredeemable.
That's Judas's mortal sin, if he didn't repent. It's called the "sin of despair," in that it takes a certain amount of arrogance to believe that you can commit a sin that is beyond the power of God to forgive.
