General Wrestling Discussion

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It really depends on what you consider a boom. In terms of popularity, there are less people following than there were in the Attitude era, but they are making more per fan. I also think it's incorrect to say they sell more tickets now than they did at the peak of the Attitude era. Big shows like WM and Summer Slam certainly have higher attendance now than the attitude era, but that's because they weren't regularly booking them in big football stadiums until the early 2000s. They were selling a lot more tickets to Raw and Smackdown during the attitude era. Average event attendance was 12,300 in 1999 compared with 10,700 in 2024, and that's with the big stadium shows skewering the average for 2024 upwards.

So if boom = mainstream populatity, the Golden Era is still the high watermark. If boom = ticket sales, the Attitude Era is the high watermark. If boom = profit, the current era is.

For me, I wouldn't consider it a boom because I consider a "boom" to be mainstream popularity. Nothing they have today can touch the mainstream appeal they had in the late 80s or late 90s. WWE is certainly doing well, though.
I agree in terms of business theyre booming but in popularity other then die hards there are no casuals anymore. But thst get offset by theyre making more money per fan. Wouldn't surprised me if trips puts the actual world title on rhea. I mean women slap men every other week lol.
 
AEW wants to brand itself as this progressive frontier of women's wrestling; There's this pretence that women's wrestling thrives in the promotion. However, outside of Toni Storm and Mercedes Mone (no idea why) the women have to work twice as hard for half the pop in AEW. Why? Beacuse no one gives a fuck. The fans at home don't care, the fans in attendance don't care and Tiny doesn't care. Tony is a lazy retard who thinks that booking people in an endless sequence of multi (wo)man matches will get them over. Therefore, there's a gigantic gaping chasm between Storm & Mone and then the rest of the division. They don't get storylines. They don't get meaningful promo time. They don't even have a women's tag division for Christ sake! But people will pretend to care, to get ass pats on blue sky (lol).

That Adam Page quote is just an example of the meaningless virtue signalling that is the very foundation of AEWs identity. It's a shame that the biggest alternative to WWE is so fucking gay.
Pretty much, and he seems to go through flavors of the month where it seems he builds towards something and just drops them. Like both Julia Hart and Jamie Hayter got over and got great pops night in night out but injuries really slowed down. That's bad enough but Tony does nothing to hype them up in their absence. Like they go away for months or a year and just return out of nowhere and they get put in a meaningless feud or neverending tag matches.
 
It really depends on what you consider a boom. In terms of popularity, there are less people following than there were in the Attitude era, but they are making more per fan. I also think it's incorrect to say they sell more tickets now than they did at the peak of the Attitude era. Big shows like WM and Summer Slam certainly have higher attendance now than the attitude era, but that's because they weren't regularly booking them in big football stadiums until the early 2000s. They were selling a lot more tickets to Raw and Smackdown during the attitude era. Average event attendance was 12,300 in 1999 compared with 10,700 in 2024, and that's with the big stadium shows skewering the average for 2024 upwards.

So if boom = mainstream populatity, the Golden Era is still the high watermark. If boom = ticket sales, the Attitude Era is the high watermark. If boom = profit, the current era is.

For me, I wouldn't consider it a boom because I consider a "boom" to be mainstream popularity. Nothing they have today can touch the mainstream appeal they had in the late 80s or late 90s. WWE is certainly doing well, though.
I'd still consider it a boom purely because there is no such thing as mainstream popularity anymore, there are no big stars in any industry. Who is today's equivalent for an arnold or a stallone? Nobody, tom cruise is probably the last star. So considering that, and how fragmented entertainment overall is I'm very surprised at the popularity they do have.
 
I'd still consider it a boom purely because there is no such thing as mainstream popularity anymore, there are no big stars in any industry. Who is today's equivalent for an arnold or a stallone? Nobody, tom cruise is probably the last star. So considering that, and how fragmented entertainment overall is I'm very surprised at the popularity they do have.
Weird Al has talked about how he no longer does Parodies because "there's no longer a monoculture" basically no song is a big enough part of society now for him to do it. Shit can get literally 378 million views and I've never heard of it once in my entire life. You can be in the same generation and live an entirely different life entertainment wise so yeah you are onto something about mainstream no longer existing.
 
After watching Raw, AJ Lee almost certainly has to be coming back. Even if it's just for the mixed tag team match and maybe a singles match with Becky. It can't be anybody else who helps Punk, otherwise Becky and Seth talking about family makes no sense. Someone like Rhea being his partner wouldn't stop the fans from booing that shit out of the building, and rightly so.

Also, how the fuck did they not have Styles beat Dom for the IC title? Dom's doing nothing with it, and he's about to win the AAA title next weekend so he can afford to take the loss. I really hate when companies refuse to pull the trigger on a title change just to keep the chase going a little longer.
 
After watching Raw, AJ Lee almost certainly has to be coming back. Even if it's just for the mixed tag team match and maybe a singles match with Becky. It can't be anybody else who helps Punk, otherwise Becky and Seth talking about family makes no sense. Someone like Rhea being his partner wouldn't stop the fans from booing that shit out of the building, and rightly so.

Also, how the fuck did they not have Styles beat Dom for the IC title? Dom's doing nothing with it, and he's about to win the AAA title next weekend so he can afford to take the loss. I really hate when companies refuse to pull the trigger on a title change just to keep the chase going a little longer.
Someone in TKO really wants to bust a fat one in Dom's bussy. Pat Patterson's legacy lives on!
 
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chuds need not enter
 
Here's the copy/paste if you don't wanna give a click.
In Search of Left Wrestling
By Tom Williams
Pro wrestling is often associated with the Right, but a new character has become popular for championing solidarity and workers’ rights, reflecting the growing economic precarity of its fanbase.


World Wrestling Entertainment (WWE) — the industry powerhouse that has been unrivalled since buying out World Championship Wrestling, its former competitor, in the early 2000s — is fairly openly aligned with Donald Trump’s administration. Recently, they rehired Brock Lesnar, who is implicated in the Vince McMahon sex trafficking scandal; WWE has close relationships with Logan Paul and the Saudi Arabian regime; its top star of the last ten years, Roman Reigns, has expressed support for Donald Trump; and co-founder Linda McMahon is a member of Trump’s cabinet. Recently, WWE television has featured a masked wrestler ‘from the Gulf of America’, reflecting the organisation’s increasingly open MAGA sympathies.

Meanwhile, upstart alternative All Elite Wrestling (AEW) is increasingly leaning the other way. Their version of the world title is now held by ‘Hangman’ Adam Page, an ‘anxious millennial cowboy’ (who in real life is a guy called Steven Woltz), a former media studies teacher and and teachers union shop steward whose hobby is gardening, hero is David Attenborough, and whose preferred presidential candidate in 2020 was Bernie Sanders, who he made a series of small donations to. (On the filing form, he listed his profession as ‘thuggin and buggin’.)

Page’s title win in July was emotional; I know of at least three full-grown adults who wept as he finally held the title belt in his hands. This was partly because, as the lines between reality and fiction are more blurred than ever, the fans relate to both the character and the person behind it. Page’s title victory came at the end of a well-worn tale of tragedy and redemption not uncommon in professional wrestling. But what made it so emotionally resonant is that Page reacted to all the typically preposterous things that happened to him as if they were indeed real. As such, he became perhaps the most relatable, most human character in wrestling.

The key angle (wrestling parlance for storyline) was an incident in which his rival Swerve Strickland broke into Page’s family home and loomed menacingly over his infant son’s cot. As ridiculous as this may seem, the home invasion angle is a standard pro wrestling trope, designed to escalate a feud and get more ‘heat’ (anger from fans), and lead to the babyface (good guy) taking violent revenge. ‘Hangman’ did eventually get back at Strickland, but while also spiralling towards a traumatised breakdown. The matches between the two were violent; one managed to incur the wrath of the famously reactionary Daily Mail after Page stapled one of his child’s paintings to Strickland’s cheek and drank his blood.

The Hangman character — insecure, plagued by feelings of inadequacy and addiction — is an avatar for political subjects, especially younger ones, who understand themselves through the prism of their oppressions and their traumas. Woltz is now a multi-millionaire, but his relatively humble beginnings make him part of a liminal class of younger people who often encounter glass ceilings and have their horizons limited by economic inequality.

There is a stark contrast between the Hangman redemption arc and WWE’s most recent feel-good saga, in which Cody Rhodes — who, when not wrestling, appears suited and booted and has a tattoo of the American flag on his neck — finished his story by winning WWE’s version of the world title. The whole idea underpinning this seemed to be that because his father, blue-collar wrestling icon Dusty Rhodes, was a champion (albeit not in WWE or the WWF, as it was then known), he should be one too.

The Cody Rhodes character entered history through a heavily individuated quest, and by the time he left for WWE, where he is seen as a hero, Rhodes was loathed by AEW fans. AEW seems to have a more socially liberal fan base (the company’s second women’s world champion was a trans woman), and their perception of Rhodes was of an entitled, vulgar, nouveau riche nepo baby. He was supposed to be a babyface, but was booed out of the building at every event.

The apparently more progressive politics of the fans also factored into the beginning of the war between Page and Strickland. It began with Strickland interrupting Page during an in-ring interview, body-shaming him, and telling Page that he would use him as a stepping stone to the top. However, in the same breath, Strickland also proclaimed that he would become the first black AEW champion. Despite Strickland being the villain of the piece, the crowd went nuts. They wanted to see a black champion. Even Page (or perhaps Woltz, breaking character) nodded along.

From that point onwards, the fans wanted Strickland to ascend to the championship, even at the expense of the beloved Page. Nothing Strickland did in the storyline got him booed, because modern wrestling fans know that it’s all a ‘work’ — it’s fake. They enjoyed Swerve Strickland, the antihero — especially his Run-DMC-inspired call-and-response ‘Whose house?’ ‘Swerve’s house!’ catchphrase — but they also wanted Stefon Strickland, the person behind the character, to write an important chapter in the company’s history (perhaps in part because rival WWE’s record with black wrestlers is chequered, to say the least).

The Hangman character spent almost two years in a depression, alienating his friends through often violent outbursts and drinking heavily. In wrestling terms, two years is a very slow-burning story arc. The sentimental impact of his eventual salvation and triumph was enhanced by Page learning to forge solidarities, becoming part of a sort of rainbow coalition of characters, including but not limited to: the bubbly, hippyish woman of colour Willow Nightingale; loveable, redneck chicken farmer Mark Briscoe; NHS-loving Essex boy Will Ospreay (currently the best in-ring performer in the world); and eventually Strickland. This was a grouping of people with intersecting struggles who ultimately just wanted a nicer workplace.

The joy at Page’s fictional vindication was to some extent coterminous with Woltz’s actual career, which provides an insight into the man behind the protagonist. He first reached the pinnacle of AEW in 2021, at the end of another compelling story in which he overcame his imposter syndrome and problem drinking to win the title from real-life friend and all-time in-ring great Kenny Omega. Woltz’s career soon hit a roadblock, though, after an on-and-off-screen row with AEW’s biggest star at the time, CM Punk (Phil Brooks). Intriguingly, the disagreement was about workers’ rights.

Woltz believed that Brooks had used his backstage clout to carry out petty vendettas against wrestlers with whom he had beef, and with art imitating life, told him how disgusted he was while in character as Hangman. Brooks was furious and ‘went into business for himself’ (went off-script) to damage Woltz, after which Woltz found himself treading water.

His career at a crossroads, Woltz and three friends — Omega (Tyson Smith) and preeminent tag team the Young Bucks (Matthew and Nicholas Massey) — did something almost unheard of in the ultra-competitive and individuated world of pro wrestling: they effectively collective bargained to secure improved terms and conditions. ‘The four guys had made a pact that they were gonna stick together, whether it would be in WWE or AEW,’ reported esteemed wrestling journalist and historian Dave Meltzer. ‘They basically had made an agreement that it was [going to] be majority rules.’

Two years on, AEW ran a hot show at the illustrious Arena Mexico in Mexico City. Opening the show, a visibly nervous Woltz surprised and delighted the mostly Latinx audience by delivering a sincere promo in decent Spanish in which he told them about working on a farm with Mexican migrant workers in his youth, melting the hearts of those in attendance as he advocated for togetherness and support of migrant workers (later on that night, the mammoth former IATSE union member Brody King barrelled towards the ring in an ‘ABOLISH ICE’ t-shirt).

‘Hola,’ he began as he took the house mic. ‘Me nombre es Hangman’. Arena Mexico fell in love.

‘When I was young, my family had a tobacco farm,’ he continued. ‘And every summer, six men would come from Ruiz, Nayarit, to work… Every year I worked with them, and they taught me about Mexico. They were hard workers, honest, and cared for their families. They taught me that we are all better when we work together.’

Workers’ rights, collective bargaining, and pro-migrant sentiments are not commonly associated with top wrestlers. The late Hulk Hogan was a union-busting racist, and while ‘Stone Cold’ Steve Austin became the biggest star in wrestling by punching his boss — the aforementioned Vince McMahon, whose real-life personality has turned out to be even more loathsome than his on-screen persona — in the face, Austin was a rugged individual who looked after himself. Page can be seen as a 2020s analogue to Austin. A key part of the character is his consciousness that community, commonality, and collectivism are necessary for survival. What makes Page unique is not superhuman attributes, but that he is a vulnerable, flawed, and still a fundamentally decent, well-intentioned person.

Perhaps even more unusually, AEW were at pains to make this fairly explicit. As Page walked the aisle before his title victory over the dastardly Jon Moxley — whose toxic masculinity and brutal hazing of the roster had infuriated fans for months — AEW’s lead commentator told viewers that Page (and in reality, Woltz too) was the son of a tobacco farmer, ‘who learned the value of hard work, collective action, and respect for his fellow man’. After an epic, blood-drenched brawl with Moxley, the sensitive Bernie partisan sobbed as he clutched the world championship belt.

All of this is, of course, likely to be an example of the typically cynical pro wrestling ploy of trying to engage fans by pandering to their prejudices, even if it is happening in line with the wishes and politics of the talent (in Woltz’s case, there can be little doubt that he is at least a left-leaning liberal). They wouldn’t be doing this if there weren’t a market for it. The fact that there is a market for it, however, is demonstrative of the groundswell of support for the values of Page/Woltz. That a value-producing company owned by a billionaire has chosen a character like Page as its standard bearer is significant.

Wrestling is a work, and Hangman Page is a fictional character. But as ever, the issues and balance of forces underlying all this are real. Ultimately, wrestling is about stories. Often, the stories that capture our imaginations do so by tapping into the zeitgeist. The reaction of wrestling fans to Hangman Page overcoming trauma and alienation via solidarity shows that what hundreds of thousands of wrestling fans and millions of people worldwide crave is not just success, but connection and togetherness.
 
This moron completely ignored Cody’s part in creating AEW and completely trivialized Finishing The Story while also ignoring that Cody was part of the FIVE dudes who said they’d stick together.

Like holy shit he left out CRUCIAL details!
 
I get mistakes can happen at any time, slippery ring ropes, etc... But this crap keeps happening in divas matches, this is way worse than it usually is in real wrestling. I think it's time to admit that the divas were a mistake.
Becky wrestles like a Divas-era talent and her promos are all done in a horrendous stage-"Oirish" accent that Yanks lap up for some reason.
I love the Irish accent. The first time I heard Becky speak in that way she does, I asked if she was retarded.
 
"WWE has close relationships with Logan Paul and the Saudi Arabian regime"

Equating Logan Paul with Saudi fucking Arabia completely invalidates everything in this article and instantly pegs this author as a fucking retard.

"I know of at least three full-grown adults who wept as he finally held the title belt in his hands. "

Men really are in a bad place right now. We are ruled by the absolute weakest people imaginable.

"The Cody Rhodes character entered history through a heavily individuated quest, and by the time he left for WWE, where he is seen as a hero, Rhodes was loathed by AEW fans. AEW seems to have a more socially liberal fan base (the company’s second women’s world champion was a trans woman), and their perception of Rhodes was of an entitled, vulgar, nouveau riche nepo baby. He was supposed to be a babyface, but was booed out of the building at every event."

He started the entire company. What the fuck is this guy going on about?

"Page can be seen as a 2020s analogue to Austin. A key part of the character is his consciousness that community, commonality, and collectivism are necessary for survival. What makes Page unique is not superhuman attributes, but that he is a vulnerable, flawed, and still a fundamentally decent, well-intentioned person."

Calling him an analogue to Austin but then in the next sentence explaining exactly why he will never ever be anywhere near Austin in popularity. He's the exact opposite of what people want to see in a wrestler.

I hate men like this. This entire article is filled with the most mewling, subservient worship of leftist pet causes. "Aren't I a good boy? I mentioned LatinX, and PoC, and unions, and nepotism, and LGBTQ, and Trump!" I know it's an overused word at this point but this guy is the definition of a soy-filled beta bitch.
 
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"WWE has close relationships with Logan Paul and the Saudi Arabian regime"

"I know of at least three full-grown adults who wept as he finally held the title belt in his hands. "

"The Cody Rhodes character entered history through a heavily individuated quest, and by the time he left for WWE, where he is seen as a hero, Rhodes was loathed by AEW fans. AEW seems to have a more socially liberal fan base (the company’s second women’s world champion was a trans woman), and their perception of Rhodes was of an entitled, vulgar, nouveau riche nepo baby. He was supposed to be a babyface, but was booed out of the building at every event."

"Page can be seen as a 2020s analogue to Austin. A key part of the character is his consciousness that community, commonality, and collectivism are necessary for survival. What makes Page unique is not superhuman attributes, but that he is a vulnerable, flawed, and still a fundamentally decent, well-intentioned person."
I don't know any functioning adult who wept when someone won a wrestling championship belt lately. Maybe because they have better things to do that day. Also, the author never understood the Stone Cold character at all by comparing him to a non-draw cowboy shit.

The article overall was written by someone who made a quick glance at WWE and AEW's recent accomplishments then sprinkled some leftard political shit. Typical lazy journalism whose politics come first.
 
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