General Wrestling Discussion

  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
CyrusHowler said:
I will admit when I’m wrong. I shat on Punk for months and while I do agree that he is a fake woke sperg…I was wrong about the whole elite and AEW situation.
Looking at him in this interview, i can see he isn’t lying. Perhaps he caused the Brawl Out problem but he didn’t cause the Brawl In problem.

Let it be known on this day that I admit I was wrong about some aspect of CM Punk.
https://youtu.be/y6xQo-bko00?si=NshAv6Ih7Lz8Sec3
Click to expand...

I dunno about that. Like 6 minutes in and I'm already rolling my eyes. ("I always get nervous when I talk about pulling back the curtain." Yeah, aside from all the other times you've done it, up to and including the podcast that led to a major ass lawsuit, lmao.)
 
XYZpdq Jr. said:
they still let him do that after Black Adam?
Click to expand...
Considering he might be one of the last Hollywood Stars that's an actual household name, maybe.

Look the Entertainment Industry is full of Literal Who's, and most of the Big Name Movie Stars are either geriatric or have fuck you money to the point they can just do what they want. Dwayne might've torched his public good will, but he's still bankable.
Kaizer Ghidorah said:
Tbh I think his issues were definitely more ith creative fucking him than anything he was basically always over but they refused to just not make him lose every time it might actually matter and no matter how much fans clearly clambered for them to pull the trigger swamp cult bray kept getting the rug pulled out from under him whenever he got any momentum the fiend was derailed by the most retarded booking ever like the worst hell in a cell match ever being fed to goldberg and orton for no good reason and all that Alexa bliss shit amd his last run got cut unfortunately short before we ever really got to see where it would go
Click to expand...
Ignoring the obvious of "if you have to win to be over, you're not actually over", the biggest problem with Bray was the more he leaned into spooky bullshit, the less well it translated to wrestling.

Like, he could be used for an angle - the Firefly Funhouse match was probably his best work - but trying to plug his character and the lore for said character into Wrestling, AND have it work? It might've been gangbusters in the 90's or somewhere batshit like Lucha Underground, but plugging his particular brand of spooky bullshit into actual wrestling meant there was always a disconnect.
 
I dunno about the 'if you have to win to be over, you're not over' mindset. I think it's contextual and dependent on who and what they're trying to do with a guy.

If you've got a new guy coming in who isn't really known to fans, you have to make them care about them in some way. EG, 123 Kid, Kane, Yokozuna, Cena, Angle all worked in different ways.

But then you can fall into Erik Watts, Greg Gagne, Tatanka, Rocky Maivia's original run, or Jeff Jarrett in TNA territory where winning is done as a shortcut to try and get a guy over. There needs to be a purpose/reason behind things.

Waltman beating Razor was interesting because it was a classic underdog story. Kane coming out as an unstoppable monster who destroyed guys like Mankind and the Undertaker put him on the same level as them. Etc. If Waltman didn't get his fluke victory, he'd just be seen as a geek when he got his eventual win (instead of eventually leading to an eventual end to that feud with the Crybaby Match.) If Kane was shelved like other guys, he'd be like Bray (or Giant Gonzalez or...well, you get the picture.)

WWE's parity booking has hurt more than it's helped, in my mind.

CyrusHowler said:
None of this made any sense.
Thanks.
Click to expand...

I'll translate:

"If Punk, who was scammed by members of the ska-punk band Rancid, was giving my co-worker grief, I'd tell my co-worker to tell Punk, an "almost-was", to fuck off."

I'm skeptical of the story re: Rancid ripping off Punk on a real estate deal or whatever it was. Punk has declared jihad on people for smaller slights and they were chummy with each other up until about a year or so ago when they were popping up in each other's socials.
 
Leaf Wage Slave Jr said:
if you have to win to be over, you're not actually over
Click to expand...
that still makes no sense again would Austin or hogan have been over if they lost all the time?
Leaf Wage Slave Jr said:
Like, he could be used for an angle - the Firefly Funhouse match was probably his best work - but trying to plug his character and the lore for said character into Wrestling, AND have it work? It might've been gangbusters in the 90's or somewhere batshit like Lucha Underground, but plugging his particular brand of spooky bullshit into actual wrestling meant there was always a disconnect.
Click to expand...
I mean the Firefly Funhouse and Fiend were massively over and were getting constant massively positive reactions from fans and people only really started to turn when Vince and Creative's fingerprints started becoming blatantly apparent in the booking and even then people didn't turn on Bray they instead turned their ire to how shittily this interesting gimmick was getting treated and not on the character you know a bad gimmick has fans booing the wrestler bad booking has fans directly putting their ire on the booker
 
Well Intentioned said:
I'll translate:

"If Punk, who was scammed by members of the ska-punk band Rancid, was giving my co-worker grief, I'd tell my co-worker to tell Punk, an "almost-was", to fuck off."

I'm skeptical of the story re: Rancid ripping off Punk on a real estate deal or whatever it was. Punk has declared jihad on people for smaller slights and they were chummy with each other up until about a year or so ago when they were popping up in each other's socials.
Click to expand...
Regardless of who’s right or wrong, it looks like history will smile on Punk in all of this. I don’t know anyone who thinks Jack Perry is anything but a jobber that cost AEW its biggest needle mover. Every comment section about the mania main events have at least one “Thanks Jack Perry for causing this domino effect” or something similar.
He even got CM Punk chants hurled at him in JAPAN, where the audience sits and claps like it’s a classical music concert.

AEW needs a massive shake up that they’ll never get and they’ll go the way of TNA unfortunately.
 
CyrusHowler said:
Regardless of who’s right or wrong, it looks like history will smile on Punk in all of this. I don’t know anyone who thinks Jack Perry is anything but a jobber that cost AEW its biggest needle mover. Every comment section about the mania main events have at least one “Thanks Jack Perry for causing this domino effect” or something similar.
He even got CM Punk chants hurled at him in JAPAN, where the audience sits and claps like it’s a classical music concert.

AEW needs a massive shake up that they’ll never get and they’ll go the way of TNA unfortunately.
Click to expand...

Jack Perry and Punk are both idiots. It's just that one is an established idiot who has a bankable name/career and the other is CM Punk Luke Perry's son.

What's lost in all this is that Punk shit his pants over Perry doing something he thought he shouldn't be doing. Then decided to escalate it to a physical confrontation. Then demanded his boss do something about it.

Yeah, Punk is probably going to look 'better' (unless he snaps, again) in the long run, but it's only because this is the modern day equivalent of like...Disco Inferno trying to start shit with DDP.
 
Kaizer Ghidorah said:
that still makes no sense again would Austin or hogan have been over if they lost all the time?

I mean the Firefly Funhouse and Fiend were massively over and were getting constant massively positive reactions from fans and people only really started to turn when Vince and Creative's fingerprints started becoming blatantly apparent in the booking and even then people didn't turn on Bray they instead turned their ire to how shittily this interesting gimmick was getting treated and not on the character you know a bad gimmick has fans booing the wrestler bad booking has fans directly putting their ire on the booker
Click to expand...
Bray as a Cajun Waylon Mercy kind of worked. Bray as the Fiend doing horror and Firefly Funhouse was fucking retarded. Bray is also 1/2 of one of the worst Mania matches in history with Randy Orton.
 
Kaizer Ghidorah said:
I mean all I'm saying is if you're supposed to be a threatening monster type or even just an upper carder you need to actually win matches for that to work I doubt the undertaker would have worked half as well if he constantly lost in big feuds or Austin or rock or Foley or hogan or... I mean this exact same thing happened to the big show and kane both big monster types who became complete jokes that would always lose when it mattered to the "real stars"
Click to expand...
Kane was always over, no matter what incarnation of him you have. BIg Show's problem is that he had serious health and weight issues that made him look just sad, and the revolving heel/face door he kept going through didn't help his case. This bullshit about Kane being a joke is just revisionist bullshit, and the only time I'd maybe agree with it is the stupid Katie Vick shit, but thankfully that ended. Bray Wyatt's gimmick just wasn't as cool as everyone kept raving it was, and he lacked the physique to actually be a monster character. The Alexa Bliss shit was them trying to capitalize on her looks and make him more over by giving him a Harley Quinn type sidekick, which I agree was stupid.
In 2030 we'll reminisce 30 years of Wrestleania 2000 and sadly 20 years of TNA's attempt at another Monday Night Wars.
Click to expand...
TNA doing the WCW company death reunion crew was a sad day, but I'm glad they somehow managed to survive. Hogan and his crew of parasites are a cancer
 
Last edited:
BONECRUSHER said:
Kane was always over, no matter what incarnation of him you have. BIg Show's problem is that he had serious health and weight issues that made him look just sad, and the revolving heel/face door he kept going through didn't help his case. This bullshit about Kane being a joke is just revisionist bullshit, and the only time I'd maybe agree with it is the stupid Katie Vick shit, but thankfully that ended. Bray Wyatt's gimmick just wasn't as cool as everyone kept raving it was, and he lacked the physique to actually be a monster character. The Alexa Bliss shit was them trying to capitalize on her looks and make him more over by giving him a Harley Quinn type sidekick, which I agree was stupid.

TNA doing the WCW company death reunion crew was a sad day, but I'm glad they somehow managed to survive. Hogan and his crew of parasites are a cancer
Click to expand...
there is no world where post-2002 Kane was anything but a jobber to the stars he had already been running around with X-pac saying suck it and subsequently having an interminable feud with them before that but post-invasion Kane existed to look scary and occasionally beat up lower card guys so they could pretend it still meant something when he inevitably lost time after time to anyone with a modicum of star power or was otherwise the new flavor of the month monster heel dude had no aura and was there to make other people look good and don't even get me started on fruit rollup mask Kane or corporate Kane I will say there was some potential in his gimmick immediately post unmaking when he went crazy and started really fucking people up but then it ultimately went away and he was back to being same old jobber Kane
 
AEW are cutting a bunch of jobbers/RoH people over the past few hours.

I presume that the timing is either down to Punk already giving them bad press anyway or TK is trying to look like a tough boss to save face.
 
Kaizer Ghidorah said:
Any recognizable names?
Click to expand...

Stu Grayson is gone again and they've finally dumped Parker Boudreaux.

Jose the Assistant is gone and considering Rush's faction hasn't been on TV in a while it might be more significant. The Boys are gone as well but that doesn't really matter because anyone wearing their masks can do Dalton Castle's intro with him.
 
trent said:
AEW are cutting a bunch of jobbers/RoH people over the past few hours.
Click to expand...
Good, maybe he can also rebury ROH while he's at it. Trying to revive a dead company is a total money sink, and loses it's luster over time. Fucking trying to push a dead company's belt on your main show is ludicrous, and tarnishes said dead company.
 
Kaizer Ghidorah said:
there is no world where post-2002 Kane was anything but a jobber to the stars he had already been running around with X-pac saying suck it and subsequently having an interminable feud with them before that but post-invasion Kane existed to look scary and occasionally beat up lower card guys so they could pretend it still meant something when he inevitably lost time after time to anyone with a modicum of star power or was otherwise the new flavor of the month monster heel dude had no aura and was there to make other people look good and don't even get me started on fruit rollup mask Kane or corporate Kane I will say there was some potential in his gimmick immediately post unmaking when he went crazy and started really fucking people up but then it ultimately went away and he was back to being same old jobber Kane
Click to expand...

Kane debuted in '97 and had a pretty long run as a more or less faceless monster. Much as the Undertaker became one note as the Dead Man and tweaked/adjusted his character, same thing happened with Kane.

Yeah, he was largely a midcard guy throughout the entirety of his career, but he was one of those dudes you could move up or down the card as needed and people would generally believe him to be a threat. He has one of the shortest squash matches for a championship at Wrestlemania and a bunch of other accomplishments over the years.

Were you a fan of the original incarnation of Kane?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom