🎭 Dramacow Gamergate / Depression Quest Shitstorm

[Gothicserpent]

 

[Jaimas]

I guess they've won as far as I'm concerned.

I've been playing games since I was basically born. I want to throw them in the trash now. For as much I can commend people for staying true to themselves and fighting the professional victims, I feel like there are just more of them telling people how terrible I am for existing and that want to push something onto me that I could care less about. Like I mentioned in a previous post, this didn't start getting big until about three or four years ago. Until that point I would play a game and not give a flying fuck who the protagonist was, just that I could either enjoy the gameplay mechanics or role play just a bit to be in their shoes. To take maybe twenty or thirty minutes or even a few hours just to escape from the terrible world around me. It's not like I'm not informed, it's not like I don't know there are bigger things to worry about, it's not like I fucking played video games through 9/11. It doesn't fucking matter to me if the protagonist identified as a genderqueer genederfluid dragonkin otherwoman. The only reason I know some of those terms to belittle them with is because they wouldn't shut the fuck up about them.

So when you start pushing out the people who actually buy games, to make games that your audience gets bored with (artistic walking simulators about strong, independent womyn, HTML Depression Quests) and the interest dries up and this industry crashes again, I'll only laugh at them... and cry on the inside.

I leave you people with a song about simpler times. God damn is it terrible but it may as well be my farewell song.

[youtube]hpsbj0OoeNo[/youtube]

There's nothing wrong with playing games because you like playing fun games. Hell, if you're not playing a game to entertain and enlighten yourself, then you've missed the fucking point. That's not me saying that, that's the fucking dictionary.

I play Shantae because it's hilariously written, very fun to play, and riotously self-referential, not because there's an agenda being pushed (unless a fun game with an interesting narrative and interesting characters is an agenda). If a game has a point to make during it, then I'll trust the game to make its point known correctly. That's why people will still be talking about SpecOps: The Line years from now, and Depression Quest will be left behind and forgotten. These people are so wrapped up in their bullshit opinions and making their artistic wet dream games that they don't realize that nobody fucking wants what they're selling. I don't know a single person who would pay for Depression Quest, and I'm entirely sure you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone here who knows someone who would.

A simple, unimpleachable fact is that if the game industry completely capitulated to the likes of the "destroy the misogyny" people (which they won't) and stepped down to place these people in charge (spoiler alert: will never happen) their "new and improved games industry" would die. Let's ignore that if the manifesto of these morons became law, it'd ring the death knell for booming industries like MMOs, E-Sports Games, competitive gaming of any sort, and so on. Look no further than their 11th commandment on this list, which cites that we stop using "fun" as the baseline for how good a game is.

On one hand, there's room this has for legitimate argument - there's a lot of great games that aren't fun per se, such as the aforementioned SpecOps: The Line, and horror games where the entertainment comes from stressing and fightening yourself. Fun itself is subjective, but one thing that isn't is Enjoyment.

Which brings me to the next fact:

Games like Depression Quest won't have people kickstarting a game for close to a million dollars.

Shantae does.

Their shrill bullshit about how games are misogynist and need to be like they say is so much fluff and nonsense. If they got what they wanted, their careers would be dead in the water, and they'd be forced to invent some other new imaginary dragon to fight. See, I'ma drop a bombshell on several: Those like Quinn who are professional victims and scream about how misogynistic the games industry is don't actually give a shit about misogyny. It's all about furthering their careers, which people like you, Green Puddin, and.... Hell, most of the CWCki's userbase, picked out a while ago. That's why you have people like Anita Sarkeesian, who initially was very hard to actually criticize due to the blastback she recieved, and now has been proven to be just as much of a manipulative clickbaiting fucker as Phil Fish by working alongside Devin Faraci, who is a known doxxer of women and has on multiple times compared the entirety of the video-game playing public (read: millions) to terrorists.

 

[Linako 2.0]

I can't read this without thinking of The People's Front of Judea:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE
I don't think this whole situation for many people is so much about journalistic integrity and the societal impact video games have on human behaviour any more, but about identity. When we're asked who we are, we'll usually respond along the lines of "I am a multifaceted person whose combination of moral beliefs, interests and personal experiences have shaped a unique view on my perception of the world". To make a statement like this places you under a degree of vulnerability, as you recognise you're alone in your viewpoints and you solely are responsible for defending them. Given that being social is fundamental to our survival, we'll typically form social bonds with those who agree with us or share the same interests, giving us a sense of validation and a sense of protection if we're placed under attack. This is why when we're young we tend to become involved in social groups which can be categorised under such a broad term, as when you're young you have very little life experience thus can only identify with people who share similar interests or undergo similar experiences. When you get older the amount of life experiences you have allow you to identify with a wider amount of people more easily, so the need to identify yourself with a broad term diminishes as you can still identify with people who you might not always agree with.

For a variety of reasons, not everybody gets to a point where they feel confident enough to identify as a unique, complex person whose individual thoughts and feelings should be validated with reasoned justification (I should point out that I wouldn't blame anyone for getting to this point, I know personally how this feels like and how difficult it can be to get out of this mindset). This usually results in an existential crisis, which you can handle by either isolating yourself, distracting yourself, distancing yourself by examining your existence aesthetically or anchoring yourself into a singular identity. I think a lot of the commentary (including Phil Fish and Zoe Quinn) has come from those who have chosen the latter option, where their lives are defined by video games as opposed to being a hobby that is one small aspect of a wider person. The terms gamer, indie developer, gaming journalist etc. have never been used in a singular descriptive context; the phrases themselves hold ideological connotations that describes a multitude of personality traits (so when Zoe Quinn tells you that she's an indie developer, she not just saying she makes games. She's telling you she belongs to an exclusive social circle with a very specific definition of social, political and philosophical beliefs that to be a part of, you must subscribe to). If you have nothing else in your life other than a single phrased identity, which if you think about objectively is actually quite demeaning, you're going to be very defensive about it.

The problem is now that for many people who identify solely as single phrases, this whole situation has bought their identity into disrepute. These terms for many people no longer mean "an interest in video games", it signals to people your view on this situation, which in turn signals a general impression of your social, political and philosophical views as well. It's a common occurrence in extremist politics, where a group of people who have nothing but an extremist ideology will split over a small issue, spending all their time fighting against each other rather than debating the original conflict of interest. In the same way these people which to use singular terms so people can make assumptions of them, they also make assumptions about others who use another term. In the context of the quoted article, creating a new term to argue the points identified is useless, as all that will happen is a stream of ad hominem attacks of opposing sides calling each other "gamer" and "player". It only serves benefit to those wishing to use video games as a definition of identity, not those who wish to discuss their hobby in depth.

Unfortunately, there's more money in division and sensationalism than in rationality and sensible discussion. If such a division of terms becomes popular in the mainstream, the cynic in me believes its sole usage will be used by gaming news outlets to develop a core, loyal readership that uses their news for confirmation bias. Of course that happens already and is the reason why discussion about this issue has been so vitriolic. I just hope that out of this whole issue, at least some people have become more understanding and open minded to opposing sides of debate. Whereas when I first read about this I instantly took sides, I'm pleased this issue has allowed me to think more critically and view opposing arguments as constructive rather than hyperbolic.

I thought I was the only one making the connection between this and the People's Front of Judea.
anyways here are more pictures.

 

[Batman VS Tony Danza]

I find it really funny how feminists bitch about how mistreated and how nobody sides with them. But the funny thing is the only reason people are defending Zoe is because she's a woman.

What I find funnier is they defend her because she's a woman but I believe she's stated her gender being "queer" prior to all this. So she's not a woman... except when she is.

 

[wheat pasta]

What I find funnier is they defend her because she's a woman but I believe she's stated her gender being "queer" prior to all this. So she's not a woman... except when she is.

Sort of like OPL not having autism, except when it means he can garner pity somehow.

 

[Jaimas]

I thought I was the only one making the connection between this and the People's Front of Judea.
anyways here are more pictures.
View attachment 5636

....I don't get it.

 

[teheviltwin]

There's basically three possible scenarios for this whole "planned PAX attack" thing going on.

1) Its all fake bullshit(and the most likely). Zoe is not planning anything, and this is just some random conspiracy theory online from some butthurt guy online.

2) Zoe is planning a staged assault(very unlikely, because as stated before, all it would take is a little investigating to find out the truth). I honestly can't see her doing something like that anyway, its too....stupid of a plan.

3) There actually IS an attack planned against her, and this is just a way of covering their tracks by saying "oh, she faked it" when really she didn't(just as unlikely as option 2 for the same reason because, again, investigations would be made). But people tend to be idiots, so maybe its a bit more likely than scenario 2.

4) Zoe started the rumour herself because she's enjoying the attention and finds it hilarious to watch people react to her actions.

 

[Johnny Bravo]

There's just one thing I'd like to add, Jaimas. Depression Quest did not have to be a terrible game. As a concept, it's fine. If Quinn had put effort into it it could have been decent and informative. Hell, if she got the right group of people together to help her with it, it might have been just as innovative as she hoped it would be.

I believe that games can be art. Therefore, games can cover any subject. For example, there's a game on Newgrounds called ALZ about what it's like to experience Alzheimer's. In my opinion the game is far from perfect, but it stands as a prime example of how putting time and imagination into an esoteric gaming project can produce a game that, while it will never appeal to the majority of gamers, is at least good at what it does.

But Quinn didn't want to make art. This is apparent just from looking at the game. It's just a web page, black words on a white screen with some grainy photographs. The only slightly imaginative thing about the game is that as you continue to make poor choices the photographs at the top of the page become greyer and filled with static, but most players aren't going to notice that because the game is so busy shoving giant walls of text in your face. Everything is pale and bland and while that might be a good visual representation of living with depression, it makes DQ incredibly boring to play. Good games balance storytelling with game play. Quinn does not seem to understand that. If she considers DQ her magnum opus, then I have my doubts she even understands what a game is.

TL;DR: The issue with Depression Quest is that very little effort was put into it, about as much effort as you'd put into a project for a high school computer class if you really wanted that A+. My fear is that in the future more people will use SJW buzzwords and underhanded trickery to get funding for games that don't deserve it.

 

[Jaimas]

There's just one thing I'd like to add, Jaimas. Depression Quest did not have to be a terrible game. As a concept, it's fine. If Quinn had put effort into it it could have been decent and informative. Hell, if she got the right group of people together to help her with it, it might have been just as innovative as she hoped it would be.

I believe that games can be art. Therefore, games can cover any subject. For example, there's a game on Newgrounds called ALZ about what it's like to experience Alzheimer's. In my opinion the game is far from perfect, but it stands as a prime example of how putting time and imagination into an esoteric gaming project can produce a game that, while it will never appeal to the majority of gamers, is at least good at what it does.

But Quinn didn't want to make art. This is apparent just from looking at the game. It's just a web page, black words on a white screen with some grainy photographs. The only slightly imaginative thing about the game is that as you continue to make poor choices the photographs at the top of the page become greyer and filled with static, but most players aren't going to notice that because the game is so busy shoving giant walls of text in your face. Everything is pale and bland and while that might be a good visual representation of living with depression, it makes DQ incredibly boring to play. Good games balance storytelling with game play. Quinn does not seem to understand that. If she considers DQ her magnum opus, then I have my doubts she even understands what a game is.

TL;DR: The issue with Depression Quest is that very little effort was put into it, about as much effort as you'd put into a project for a high school computer class if you really wanted that A+. My fear is that in the future more people will use SJW buzzwords and underhanded trickery to get funding for games that don't deserve it.

Actually, that brings up a good point. It is zero-effort. Which means we should bring back some levity to gaming with these games that are most-assuredly not zero effort and address things in an interesting, innovative, and poignant fashion:

Live A Live:
This SNES game is one of the best and most terrifying analyses of moral decay and how good intentions could go horribly wrong, as well as a great example of the sort of game that Squeenix couldn't bring over during Nintendo of America's "Nanny" days. Live A Live is a dark, terrifying epic divided into chapters, in which characters from various time-periods have a piece of a greater story - and the truth behind that story turns into one of the most tragic stories done on the SNES. I've long contended that it's a great example of storytelling as one of the most fucking sad scenarios I've seen in a game of this era. A worthy playthrough, even on a translated ROM.

Spec Ops: The Line:
Good god, this game. Spec Ops: The Line is one of those games that deserves to be played not necessarily because the gameplay's good (it's decent, but hardly genre-defining), but because it has one of the most gripping and horrifying narratives ever done by any game, and the stainless steel-plated balls (and ovaries) it must have taken to even greenlight this may show that 2K games is one of the more self-aware publishers at this point. Spec Ops: The Line is to video games what Oliver Stone's Platoon is to movies; a bitterly uncompromising look at the very human cost of armed conflict. This is handled through the eyes of the protagonist, Captain Walker, who the player quickly learns they are not entirely control of, as they are dragged along through a twisted path of madness and destruction in what can almost be described a horror game due to its content. Many people have called it one of the most fascinating things to happen in Video Game narrative in years, and whilst that's true, I'll give you due warning: this is a fucking hard game to sit through, and it requires you to be exposed to incredibly brutal things that are well beyond most shooters, and it will force you to face them directly. This is not something for everyone, and I recommend it only to those with this fact well in hand.

Papers, Please:
Papers, Please may very well be the game that exemplifies everything wrong with Depression Quest winning IndieCade, because Papers, Please is the game about depression and hopelessness in a world gone mad. In Papers, Please, you take the role of a Border Patrol guard for the glorious nation of Arstotzka, a fictitious communist country in the midst of the Cold War, and you must harass travelers for discrepencies in their paperwork and decide whether they're allowed into the country or not. You earn an incredibly meager wage and you must determine whether or not visitors to Arstotzka are allowed access or not, and if you screw up, you're penalized for it, and the beurocracy of the situation worsens over time as the country struggles to maintain border security during the darkest times amongst the communist superpowers. You get paid for how many you process per shift, and it remains a really good example not only of the drudgery and thanklessness of such a job, but it also makes it central to constant moral choices without being funneled into given patterns. Sure, you can waive the rules to re-unite a couple or help someone bring medicine to a family member, but you'll do so at the expense of your own income and thus your own family. The game has some issues and is a bit rough around the edges, but is incredibly absorbing and definitely worth checking out.

Yume Nikki:
I'm not a terrible fan of this one, because it's essentially light on plot and more of a surrealist oddity than an actual gameplay-filled game, but as a great example of what's possible with RPGMaker and an excellent mind-fuck in general, it most certainly belongs on this list. The protagonist, Madotsuki, has frankly bizarre dreams and writes them down in her journal (Yume Nikki quite literally means "Dream Diary"). The game mostly involves you exploring the dream world, and the bizarre, often haunting imagery you encounter in this twisted place. The main centerpiece of the game is to explore the dream world and find all 24 Effects, at which point returning to the Nexus and waking up will play the ending. The various effects and the bizarre imagery in Madotsuki's dreams hint at some terrible things, but the entirety of it is incredibly open-ended and open to interpretation. It's worth noting that the primary developer Yume Nikki was wrestling with depression during the development in this game, and it shows, as much of the game's surreal environments and effects are deeply unnerving. It's definitely worth a playthrough.

I encourage you guys to list off a few of your favorites that discuss a poignant issue, either directly or not.

 

[Small Onion]

Persona 4 approaches the problem of how people perceive themselves and their hidden feelings in some really interesting ways including, oddly enough, gender identity and sexuality (one character is a young female detective who wants to be male and disguises herself as a boy in order to fit in among the male dominated Japanese police force, and one boy is trying to come to terms with his interest in knitting and sewing being at odds with society's view of how men should behave, so he puts on a tough guy act to make up for his perceived femininity). It's a pretty long game (my first playthrough was around 100 hours), and the premise may seem really odd (JRPG/Social Sim set against the backdrop of a small town murder mystery), but it's one of my all time favorites.

Also really glad to see Spec Ops up there. That game threw me for a loop.

 

[NoMoreSleeping]

I find it really funny how feminists bitch about how mistreated and how nobody sides with them. But the funny thing is the only reason people are defending Zoe is because she's a woman.

And on the flipside, if you are against her you are a minsogynst who hates women.

 

[Johnny Bravo]

Shadow of the Colossus. I feel like you can interpret this game in a bunch of different ways, but the theme "what would you do for love?" is really prominent.

Also, at least the first three Silent Hills. I haven't played the fourth one so I don't know about that one. Game play wise it's your basic survival horror game but the story really digs down into the psyches of the protagonists.

 

[Ti-99/4A]

I have no games to list, but here's some other notable female game developers. They may have been mentioned already as I've only skimmed several pages of the thread.

Lori anne cole - Quest for Glory series (The real one, not GK's turd of a story)
Jane Jensen- Gabriel Knight series

And a trans woman developer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebecca_Heineman
Not mentioned in the article, but she also ported and updated the earlier Ultima games to the Apple IIGS. There are people in comp.sys.apple2 that would give their left nut for copies since they can't be redistributed.

 

[Watcher]

 

[Francis York Morgan]

There's just one thing I'd like to add, Jaimas. Depression Quest did not have to be a terrible game. As a concept, it's fine. If Quinn had put effort into it it could have been decent and informative. Hell, if she got the right group of people together to help her with it, it might have been just as innovative as she hoped it would be.

I believe that games can be art. Therefore, games can cover any subject. For example, there's a game on Newgrounds called ALZ about what it's like to experience Alzheimer's. In my opinion the game is far from perfect, but it stands as a prime example of how putting time and imagination into an esoteric gaming project can produce a game that, while it will never appeal to the majority of gamers, is at least good at what it does.

But Quinn didn't want to make art. This is apparent just from looking at the game. It's just a web page, black words on a white screen with some grainy photographs. The only slightly imaginative thing about the game is that as you continue to make poor choices the photographs at the top of the page become greyer and filled with static, but most players aren't going to notice that because the game is so busy shoving giant walls of text in your face. Everything is pale and bland and while that might be a good visual representation of living with depression, it makes DQ incredibly boring to play. Good games balance storytelling with game play. Quinn does not seem to understand that. If she considers DQ her magnum opus, then I have my doubts she even understands what a game is.

TL;DR: The issue with Depression Quest is that very little effort was put into it, about as much effort as you'd put into a project for a high school computer class if you really wanted that A+. My fear is that in the future more people will use SJW buzzwords and underhanded trickery to get funding for games that don't deserve it.

Text adventures also rely on the quality of the writing and, to me, that's the most damning issue with Depression Quest. The writing in this game is just not good.

I guess after catching up on all of this the only question I have left is why Zoe? Why are so many people and groups willing to risk the status quo over someone who is practically a nobody in the field?

Edit: I hate posting on my phone so much.

 

[Batman VS Tony Danza]

Zoe Quinn didn't get on stage.

After making fun of the fact there were no protesters outside PAX and mocking the fact people thought she might do something to create drama at the event she ended up refusing to even get on the panel due to "stage fright". This is a woman who has been on live feeds with and in front of bigger names in the industry, had no problems speaking in public before, and just generally loves attention.

Nobody threatened her there. Nobody tried to troll her. Everything she thought /v/ was going to do to mess with her didn't happen and she still avoided doing the panel.

False Flag. Bad Intel. DUDE THAT'S FUCKED UP!

 

[Johnny Bravo]

She is going to blame her stage fright on harassment.

 

[Gothicserpent]

Zoe Quinn didn't get on stage.

After making fun of the fact there were no protesters outside PAX and mocking the fact people thought she might do something to create drama at the event she ended up refusing to even get on the panel due to "stage fright". This is a woman who has been on live feeds with and in front of bigger names in the industry, had no problems speaking in public before, and just generally loves attention.

Nobody threatened her there. Nobody tried to troll her. Everything she thought /v/ was going to do to mess with her didn't happen and she still avoided doing the panel.

Awww, poor baby...

 

[Batman VS Tony Danza]

She is going to blame her stage fright on harassment.

She may not even have to say it outright. I imagine people will start making that claim for her. I kind of think she really counted on someone doing something stupid during PAX. Anything. She was actually making fun of the LACK of harassment she was getting. It was almost as if she was purposely trying to goad /v/ and others on over twitter but nothing came of it. I don't know if she was honestly nervous about going on stage because she knew everyone was going to be thinking "It's her. That chick that slept her way to mediocrity" or if she's doing it because she knows /v/, IA, and others will get blamed.

Gay and not realistic.

 

[soIregistered]

The funniest part of all this is: if you go to your average video game store, or talk to the average friend that plays games and ask them who Zoe Quinn is, no one will have any idea. She is absolutely no one. These people will just go away. You'd be surprised how many people don't spend time on Twitter and message boards. Again, go to a Gamestop and ask someone who Phil Fish is. Who Nathan Grayson is. Who Anita Sarkeeeeeeeeeeeeeesian is. No one knows, no one cares. Not even after this summer's recent shitstorm of "GAMES R BAD N SEXIZT". (Not arguing that many games don't have pathetic conceptions of women and they gleefully cater to the unsexed and horny. That's just a sad marketing fact.)

In short, these people are all insignificant hipster blips on the radar of gaming's face. They don't work for Nintendo. They don't design Halos or Call of Duties or Diablos or other billion dollar important franchises. They make lame vanity games. Insignificant indie dreck, pretentious drivel. The crime here is giving them attention and making them feel like they matter. (They don't.)