Fire Emblem series

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Million dollar question: is IS more clueless than Gamefreak at this point?
I think gameplay aspects like how hard juggernauting is, show that they are aware of and pick up on some criticisms. It's just that they seemingly also still want to do whatever they feel like and at this point might legitimately not value aspects like writing this much.

GameFreak meanwhile feel less clueless to me but rather just lazy and complacent.
 
And to this day, you can't convince that this was an incredibly good idea for the local gymrat to be constantly wearing an frilly dress.
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Some of you people are fucking nitpicky babies. You sound like chicks. You can’t criticize Engage’s gameplay or maps so you have to find some other bullshit to complain about.

You fuckers have 12 (14 if you count Awakening and Echoes) games to play featuring generic Medieval character designs. Play that shit if you want it so bad. IS makes one game with more colorful characters and you act like the sky is falling. Many of you have even admitted to not playing the game.

IS made a pretty damn good follow up in 3H footsteps considering the time pressure and the fact they were working on Paper Mario. They addressed basically all the hub world issues I had with 3H.

This is like when people wouldn’t play Wind Waker because of the art style (only to coom for BotW years later). Just shallow, ignorant morons.
 
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Some of you people are fucking nitpicky babies. You sound like chicks. You can’t criticize Engage’s gameplay or maps so you have to find some other bullshit to complain about.
"I can't counter your complaints about the presentation, so I'm going to pretend you don't have any about the gameplay. Enjoy Somniel, stalker child."

Multiple posters here have criticized Engage's gameplay. From how many of the early units you're given are poorly balanced to their maps to how almost all the maps are rout/kill boss to there being no effort in recruiting units to finding the Somniel as tedious/pointless as the Monastery to not liking a gacha ring mechanic, there are multiple shortcomings in Engage's gameplay that could be discussed if people could be bothered to actually talk about them. Which is its biggest problem; barring a few exceptional individuals, no one actually finds Engage engaging.

There are 14 other games that are mechanically similar to Engage. You can litigate about which ones scratch your dopamine receptors the best, but two years on and it is painfully obvious that Engage is not one of those games for most FE fans, even many of the old ones who talked about how they didn't care about presentation and just wanted good gameplay before Engage. Telling le chuds to stop complaining about what was supposed to be an anniversary game for the series and to go play another title is something I don't think even Awakening fans did during peak Awakening seethe.
 
"I can't counter your complaints about the presentation, so I'm going to pretend you don't have any about the gameplay. Enjoy Somniel, stalker child."

Multiple posters here have criticized Engage's gameplay. From how many of the early units you're given are poorly balanced to their maps to how almost all the maps are rout/kill boss to there being no effort in recruiting units to finding the Somniel as tedious/pointless as the Monastery to not liking a gacha ring mechanic, there are multiple shortcomings in Engage's gameplay that could be discussed if people could be bothered to actually talk about them. Which is its biggest problem; barring a few exceptional individuals, no one actually finds Engage engaging.

There are 14 other games that are mechanically similar to Engage. You can litigate about which ones scratch your dopamine receptors the best, but two years on and it is painfully obvious that Engage is not one of those games for most FE fans, even many of the old ones who talked about how they didn't care about presentation and just wanted good gameplay before Engage. Telling le chuds to stop complaining about what was supposed to be an anniversary game for the series and to go play another title is something I don't think even Awakening fans did during peak Awakening seethe.
The reason I said ‘some of you people’ is because it is limited to a few people who bring up the dumbest things to complain about. They do it for other games, too, not just Engage, and it’s annoying, bitchy behavior, very female coded, as zoomers would say. It’s the sort of gay dogpiling seen on sites like Reddit where the forum turns into a hivemind.
 
Yeah some people complaining about a token dress is kinda lame, so is complaining about it. But you bring a good topic. Il actually effort post engage gameplay.

First a few positives because credit where it’s due is good. The Sominel was so much less obtrusive than the monetary and I could safely ignore it and all of the mini games it provided. The activities menu being all accessible from the pool let me grind supports and get out quickly without tea mini games or other pace breakers. Given that I was hardly ever required to leave the plaza or pool, I think it’s actually a step in the right direction.

The engage mechanic was pretty cool on paper. I like how they called back to other play styles, and overall I found them fun to use. The thing is that I feel they go too far and do too much, to the detriment of the other game mechanics.

What I didn’t like was emblem skill and inheritance. It was too easy to just put obscene skills on everyone without actually using time or much in the way of exp or resources. Just pay money into the arena on the somenel and walk out with super soldiers with 100% dodge rate and 8 movement. Some people like it, I didn’t have fun with it. Maybe on harder difficulties the game can handle that, I never played maddening.

Alear in particular will almost always end up with a near 0% chance to be hit by Sombron if you just leave him with the Marth and Lucinda skills and bonuses that the story forces on him. Having to actively try to handicap my units from the story forced loadout by refusing to interact with the mechanics isn’t what I call the peak of gameplay. I didn’t do anything special, just what the narrative told me to do. Or, maybe I got crazy lucky it’s hard to say.

Likewise for class changing, it’s tied to weapon level. But the best way to get weapon level is to grind emblem level, which also gives you emblem skills. So the basic action of class changing is to sit there in the arena forever and then you get all the skills and oops you now how more super soldiers entirely by accident.

Because of all of this the classes all felt the same, there’s so little difference to classes when the skills you get are almost entirely based on the equipped emblem and the inherited emblem. At that point classes became a movement stat and an aesthetic choice to me. Which is not a system I enjoy. There were tons of unique interesting classes on paper but none of them mean anything when the class is overrided by “become byleth” or “become Sigurd”. I ended up just clicking high movement and calling it a day.

Being able to PK Bitchkill any target unit on the map made bosses and difficult sections worthless. The multiple health bars was a step in the right direction but they give you 14+ Nuke options and a dancer and a Heron in Byleth so the health bars aren’t quite enough to solve that a large portion of your army at any given time has a “destroy target heath bar” button. This made it very easy to get out of any major fight, doubly so for Sombron who I didn’t even get to see his second phase of evil emblems when I played it, because I nuked him three times and he was gone. Having so many removal spells isn’t very interesting to me, once again if I expect as a series veteran to have to “not try that hard” to make the game not too easy, but I shouldn’t have to refuse to use the games mechanics on the story mandatory load out else I miss content due to slapping the final boss so hard in one turn.

Essentially I think the mechanics are cool on paper but trivialize the game even harder than Seth or Robin do. I feel better playing my game and benching Seth or not abusing Robin too hard than I would feel simply refusing to utilize the entire emblem mechanic. It doesn’t create interesting choices, because you can pick every choice all the time and get the best of every world. It trivializes the class system and supports (with living people) to flavor text when I want those to be the primary focus instead.

A trend that this community has gone in loops for long as I’ve been a part of it is that we have cycles of obsessive negativity and obsessive positivity. If you say anything good about X we’re going to dogpile you because your ruining this franchise VS if you say anything bad about X we’re going to dogpile you because let people enjoy things. As a more speech friendly place here in the Farms we’re going to see more stupid ass complaints because other places like FEU will come out of the woodworks if you complain about engage. At least last time I interacted with them.
 
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Shadow Dragon, which are considered two of the worst entries in the series.
What's wrong with Shadow Dragon, exactly? Aside from the graphics?
Million dollar question: is IS more clueless than Gamefreak at this point?
Only major issue that I had was how the monastery momentarily locks a certain set of doors if you fast travel to certain locations because it hasn't finished loading.

There's also some framerate issues with Hopes if you spam an certain combo enough times.
You can’t criticize Engage’s gameplay or maps so you have to find some other bullshit to complain about.
Alright, what I hate about the gameplay of Engage is that there's hardly anything that's traditionally useful for most of the classes aside from an lot of them having some weird ability that allows for repositioning your units instead of something that's more beneficial for combat.

And the rings have essentially neutered your entire party during the second act of the game. In fact, you're actually locked out of reclassing into anything that uses magic or staves for quite an while
Multiple posters here have criticized Engage's gameplay
Which isn't good enough to set aside the fact that the aesthetics and plot of it is killing what would otherwise be one of the better games in the series
Yeah some people complaining about a token dress is kinda lame,
That was mainly me pointing out how ridiculous the character design can get, compared to their actual personality. Since a large part of the series has been mostly consistent (or lazy) with having the various outfits reflect the characters' personality or profession; and while Fates and 3H were vaguely approaching the line where it stops being believable. Engage is something that would have been better suited for the mobile game than anything else
 
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The engage mechanic was pretty cool on paper. I like how they called back to other play styles, and overall I found them fun to use. The thing is that I feel they go too far and do too much, to the detriment of the other game mechanics.
I think our opinions about this game pretty much align lol. The engage mechanic felt like an overcorrection for battalions in 3H. Battalions felt like glorified stat boosters and ended up feeling a bit flat and contrived. Engaging, on the flip side, is way more altering and draws a bit too much attention to itself. If you don’t like the engage mechanics, the game won’t work at all. It’s like Final Smashes, something players will either love or hate.
What's wrong with Shadow Dragon, exaxtly? Aside from the graphics?
The biggest problem, in my opinion, is adding the weapon triangle to a game that wasn’t designed for it, and then failing to account for that. The other major problem is that it made Marth a worse Lord in the Zeitgeist, combat-wise. Marth is supposed to be this hero-king of legend, literally titled ‘Starlord’ in Japanese, and he can’t kill the boss on higher difficulties? I get making the game harder is necessary and it’s difficult to make that work with Falchion, but IS could have come up with something, like scaling down Falchions effects or nerfing the orbs on higher difficulties to encourage the player to get Falchion and use Marth to kill Medeus, or let him use lances with a secret item or something, anything to make him look like less of a meme lord.

Then you have the new characters and chapters which you can only get by losing units. So veterans who already played FE1 and FE3 are the least likely to experience the new content unless they purposefully lose units. That’s dumb. It flies in the face of what paralogues have been for which is rewarding the player.

What is good about Shadow Dragon is the fleshed out story and supports and reclassing. It has a lot of replay value.

I think New Mystery is better. New Mystery is like a proto-Awakening.
 
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I think New Mystery is better. New Mystery is like a proto-Awakening.
New Mystery is hell; you have to plan things out for days if you want to torture challenge yourself. Even with reclass, the way these units just show up as utter ass pisses me off to no end; the Abel join chapter wrecks me because I loved using him in SD.
 
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Honestly even in FE3, the story made a point of how Marth doesn't measure up to giga chad Anri in martial prowess. But what he lacks in raw power, he more than makes up for in charisma and commanding ability. Which is why he gets a happy ending and a 3000 year dynasty and Anri ends up alone and unhappy after his big epic quest.

I do think the remakes went too far in overcorrecting how strong he was in FE1 when they already struck the perfect balance in FE3 Book 2.
 
New Mystery is hell; you have to plan things out for days if you want to torture challenge yourself. Even with reclass, the way these units just show up as utter ass pisses me off to no end; the Abel join chapter wrecks me because I loved using him in SD.
It's also retarded that if you don't train Marth you effectively softlock yourself on the highest difficulties because they took away effective manakete damage from the final boss
 
Having to let characters die to open up sidequests in Shadow Dragon was the worst part for me. Also the fighter and pirate units were irritating. Aside from the art style being shit, I don't hate the game. In fact Fire Emblem is one of the few series where I'd still play them all, good or bad. Yes even fucking Fates.

I recently discovered that it was apparently Radiant Dawn that almost killed the franchise. That surprised me. I'd have thought Path of Radiance because it was tough and extremely hard to find copies of.

I wonder why we never got Binding Blade internationally? I know Blazing Sword is the prequel. But you'd think because of Roy's inclusion in Melee that we would get his title first.
 
I get what the Shadow Dragon paralogues were going for with being a means to help struggling players that keep losing units and the final paralogue being a failsafe to ensure you won't get softlocked against Medeus (especially with how much SD ridiculously buffs him on the harder difficulties), but IS should have known how poorly that would be perceived by a playerbase that predominantly just resets when their units die anyway and that would really want to see all this new content, even if the new content is just incredibly basic maps with no story value and new characters that are all flat with little gameplay distinction to them.
 
I get what the Shadow Dragon paralogues were going for with being a means to help struggling players that keep losing units and the final paralogue being a failsafe to ensure you won't get softlocked against Medeus (especially with how much SD ridiculously buffs him on the harder difficulties), but IS should have known how poorly that would be perceived by a playerbase that predominantly just resets when their units die anyway and that would really want to see all this new content, even if the new content is just incredibly basic maps with no story value and new characters that are all flat with little gameplay distinction to them.
Post-Kaga IS and their efforts to incentivize continuing despite fallen units just forget how he made FE1. Even though it will stop at a certain point, you'll always get units to carry you forward if you just kept going in that game, for better or worse. Merric and Excalibur, for example, are cool, but Wendell is great when you get him. And if something happens to him, Boah can take his place.

There is only a handful of units worth resetting for, but I guess the tragic flaw of the series is mind over matter; we're so attached to certain units that even if them dying offered something or was just that much of a bad memory in the long run, we're compelled to go back, every time. And it's not like anyone goes out of their way to seriously use Radd and/or Caesar if Navarre and/or Ogma bite it, so they and other characters like that get relegated to junk in the unit roster.

Ultimately, the same thing applies with the alternate ending if Caeda dies or the ones in Gaiden. It all works to promote replayability if you play the game as intended, especially in the pre-Internet era they were released in. Kaga knew how to make us want to keep these characters alive, so we do that now. Unfortunately, we do that no matter what, no matter the Fire Emblem game now.
 
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Having to let characters die to open up sidequests in Shadow Dragon was the worst part for me. Also the fighter and pirate units were irritating. Aside from the art style being shit, I don't hate the game. In fact Fire Emblem is one of the few series where I'd still play them all, good or bad. Yes even fucking Fates.

I recently discovered that it was apparently Radiant Dawn that almost killed the franchise. That surprised me. I'd have thought Path of Radiance because it was tough and extremely hard to find copies of.

I wonder why we never got Binding Blade internationally? I know Blazing Sword is the prequel. But you'd think because of Roy's inclusion in Melee that we would get his title first.
Path of Radiance did well enough that Nintendo gave IS too much budget for Radiant Dawn. That’s why it turned out to be a flop. I’m not exactly sure why. The marketing was good. Some possibilities are that there were a lot of competitive games out at the time, it had a reputation of being super fucking hard which may have turned off new players, and it had a woman main character who was not a sex symbol, featured prominently on the box and in ads.

IS repositioned with Shadow Dragon and nobody fucking bought it. It was a huge disappointment for them and is largely why New Mystery didn’t get localized (the Advance Wars flop was also a factor). The fact Nintendo even gave them a chance with Awakening is nothing short of a miracle.

I do wonder if emulation/piracy was a factor. Both the Wii and DS were cracked very early on and the FE fanbase is naturally tech savvy. A lot of people became used to playing the GBA games on emulator for benign reasons (ROM hacks, state files) and this may have bled over. The 3DS was not so easy to crack or emulate.

As for why NOA has not localized titles before Blazing Sword except for FE1: localizing text-heavy cartridge games is NOT easy if the developers didn’t originally have any intention of localization. Fan translations are largely volunteer efforts. I don’t think the effort could be profitable. I’d be curious to know if the FE1 localization made a profit.
 
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Path of Radiance did well enough that Nintendo gave IS too much budget for Radiant Dawn. That’s why it turned out to be a flop. I’m not exactly sure why. The marketing was good. Some possibilities are that there were a lot of competitive games out at the time, it had a reputation of being super fucking hard which may have turned off new players, and it had a woman main character who was not a sex symbol, featured prominently on the box and in ads.

The Wii in general was not a good console for Fire Emblem; despite its large install base, the majority of Wii owners were casuals that just bought it for Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Mario Kart, and NSMB, with them only maybe buying a couple of the other big Nintendo releases or the myriad of casual slop on the console, leading to low attach rates for Wii games outside of the big casual titles. A big budget Fire Emblem game was never going to succeed on the Wii no matter how good it was, especially when it wasn't adjusted in any way to try appealing to the Wii's casual-oriented install base like some other more hardcore titles were (e.g. Twilight Princess incorporating the Wiimote into its control scheme and Skyward Sword being fully motion controlled, Mario Galaxy and Donkey Kong Returns incorporating pointless motion control, Super Smash Bros Brawl's infamous casualizing, etc.). There was that infamous review of Radiant Dawn from that time which criticized it for having no motion control nor mii support, which is funny to look back on now, but it is the sort of attitude your average Wii owner would have had at the time.

The DS had a similar problem of its massive on-paper install base being largely casuals, so it wasn't an ideal platform either for Fire Emblem games, though being cheaper to produce them for DS meant Shadow Dragon and New Mystery weren't the big financial failure that Radiant Dawn was.
 
The Wii in general was not a good console for Fire Emblem; despite its large install base, the majority of Wii owners were casuals that just bought it for Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Mario Kart, and NSMB, with them only maybe buying a couple of the other big Nintendo releases or the myriad of casual slop on the console, leading to low attach rates for Wii games outside of the big casual titles. A big budget Fire Emblem game was never going to succeed on the Wii no matter how good it was, especially when it wasn't adjusted in any way to try appealing to the Wii's casual-oriented install base like some other more hardcore titles were (e.g. Twilight Princess incorporating the Wiimote into its control scheme and Skyward Sword being fully motion controlled, Mario Galaxy and Donkey Kong Returns incorporating pointless motion control, Super Smash Bros Brawl's infamous casualizing, etc.). There was that infamous review of Radiant Dawn from that time which criticized it for having no motion control nor mii support, which is funny to look back on now, but it is the sort of attitude your average Wii owner would have had at the time.

The DS had a similar problem of its massive on-paper install base being largely casuals, so it wasn't an ideal platform either for Fire Emblem games, though being cheaper to produce them for DS meant Shadow Dragon and New Mystery weren't the big financial failure that Radiant Dawn was.
Yeah those era factors are a good point. A lot of hardcore gamers were obsessed with online gaming at the time, too, and Radiant Dawn had no multiplayer or online features of any kind. It was a pretty rough era of dumb fads on both the casual and hardcore side, IMO.
 
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