Opinion Elections Are Bad for Democracy - NYT

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On the eve of the first debate of the 2024 presidential race, trust in government is rivaling historic lows. Officials have been working hard to safeguard elections and assure citizens of their integrity. But if we want public office to have integrity, we might be better off eliminating elections altogether.

If you think that sounds anti-democratic, think again. The ancient Greeks invented democracy, and in Athens many government officials were selected through sortition — a random lottery from a pool of candidates. In the United States, we already use a version of a lottery to select jurors. What if we did the same with mayors, governors, legislators, justices and even presidents?

People expect leaders chosen at random to be less effective than those picked systematically. But in multiple experiments led by the psychologist Alexander Haslam, the opposite held true. Groups actually made smarter decisions when leaders were chosen at random than when they were elected by a group or chosen based on leadership skill.

Why were randomly chosen leaders more effective? They led more democratically. “Systematically selected leaders can undermine group goals,” Dr. Haslam and his colleagues suggest, because they have a tendency to “assert their personal superiority.” When you’re anointed by the group, it can quickly go to your head: I’m the chosen one.

When you know you’re picked at random, you don’t experience enough power to be corrupted by it. Instead, you feel a heightened sense of responsibility: I did nothing to earn this, so I need to make sure I represent the group well. And in one of the Haslam experiments, when a leader was picked at random, members were more likely to stand by the group’s decisions.

Over the past year I’ve floated the idea of sortition with a number of current members of Congress. Their immediate concern is ability: How do we make sure that citizens chosen randomly are capable of governing?

In ancient Athens, people had a choice about whether to participate in the lottery. They also had to pass an examination of their capacity to exercise public rights and duties. In America, imagine that anyone who wants to enter the pool has to pass a civics test — the same standard as immigrants applying for citizenship. We might wind up with leaders who understand the Constitution.

A lottery would also improve our odds of avoiding the worst candidates in the first place. When it comes to character, our elected officials aren’t exactly crushing it. To paraphrase William F. Buckley Jr., I’d rather be governed by the first 535 people in the phone book. That’s because the people most drawn to power are usually the least fit to wield it.

The most dangerous traits in a leader are what psychologists call the dark triad of personality traits: narcissism, Machiavellianism and psychopathy. What these traits share is a willingness to exploit others for personal gain. People with dark triad traits tend to be more politically ambitious — they’re attracted to authority for its own sake. But we often fall under their spell. Is that you, George Santos?

In a study of elections worldwide, candidates who were rated by experts as having high psychopathy scores actually did better at the ballot box. In the United States, presidents assessed as having psychopathic and narcissistic tendencies were more persuasive with the public than their peers. A common explanation is that they’re masters of fearless dominance and superficial charm, and we mistake their confidence for competence. Sadly, it starts early: Even kids who display narcissistic personality traits get more leadership nominations and claim to be better leaders. (They aren’t.)

If the dark triad wins an election, we all lose. When psychologists rated the first 42 American presidents, the narcissists were more likely to take reckless risks, make unethical decisions and get impeached. Add a dash of Machiavellianism and a pinch of psychopathy, and you get autocrats like Putin, Erdoğan, Orbán and Duterte.

Eliminate voting, and candidates with dark triad traits would be less likely than they are now to rise to the top. Of course, there’s also a risk that a lottery would deprive us of the chance to select a leader with distinctive skills. At this point, that’s a risk I’m willing to take. As lucky as America was to have Lincoln at the helm, it’s more important to limit our exposure to bad character than to roll the dice on the hopes of finding the best.

Besides, if Lincoln were alive now, it’s hard to imagine that he’d even put his top hat in the ring. In a world filled with divisiveness and derision, evidence shows that members of Congress are increasingly rewarded for incivility. And they know it.

A lottery would give a fair shot to people who aren’t tall enough or male enough to win. It would also open the door to people who aren’t connected or wealthy enough to run. Our broken campaign finance system lets the rich and powerful buy their way into races while preventing people without money or influence from getting on the ballot. They’re probably better candidates: Research suggests that on average, people who grow up in low-income families tend to be more effective leaders and less likely to cheat — they’re less prone to narcissism and entitlement.

Switching to sortition would save a lot of money too. The 2020 elections alone cost upward of $14 billion. And if there’s no campaign, there are no special interests offering to help pay for it.

Finally, no voting also means no boundaries to gerrymander and no Electoral College to dispute. Instead of questioning whether millions of ballots were counted accurately, we could watch the lottery live, like we do with teams getting their lottery picks in the NBA draft.

Other countries have begun to see the promise of sortition. Two decades ago, Canadian provinces and the Dutch government started using sortition to create citizens’ assemblies that generated ideas for improving democracy. In the past few years, the French, British and German governments have run lotteries to select citizens to work on climate change policies. Ireland tried a hybrid model, gathering 33 politicians and 66 randomly chosen citizens for its 2012 constitutional convention. In Bolivia, the nonprofit Democracy in Practice works with schools to replace student council elections with lotteries. Instead of elevating the usual suspects, it welcomes a wider range of students to lead and solve real problems in their schools and their communities.

As we prepare for America to turn 250 years old, it may be time to rethink and renew our approach to choosing officials. The lifeblood of a democracy is the active participation of the people. There is nothing more democratic than offering each and every citizen an equal opportunity to lead.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/21/opinion/elections-democracy.html (Archive)
 
They certainly don't seem too confident of their chances, even with Trump on the ropes and their fortification schemes in place.

All their recent power-grabs are signs of their increasing desperation.
Trump going against Biden is their nightmare.

A lot of people bought that Biden won the first time out of sheer intellectual cowardice, not being willing or able to accept that "democracy" is truly fucking dead in this country.

A lot of those people, however, will not be capable of buying a second Biden win over Trump. And they know it.

Winning means fucking nothing if the months following are filled with societal disarray.
 
Trump going against Biden is their nightmare.

A lot of people bought that Biden won the first time out of sheer intellectual cowardice, not being willing or able to accept that "democracy" is truly fucking dead in this country.

A lot of those people, however, will not be capable of buying a second Biden win over Trump. And they know it.

Winning means fucking nothing if the months following are filled with societal disarray.
They keep talking about how Biden's "successes" are going unappreciated, as if it's all Fox News' fault. They don't understand, or care, that numbers going up on paper are not translating to real-life tangible benefits.
 
The author belies his alleged historical literacy by forgetting what happened to Athens: the factions of the oligarchy corrupted the process, and weakened the polis by their infighting. Then they promptly gaped their negholes for every two-bit Macedonian that wanted some of that Attic bussy for 200 years, then traded in the Macedonians for Romans
 
The author belies his alleged historical literacy by forgetting what happened to Athens: the factions of the oligarchy corrupted the process, and weakened the polis by their infighting. Then they promptly gaped their negholes for every two-bit Macedonian that wanted some of that Attic bussy for 200 years, then traded in the Macedonians for Romans
Democracy isn't in itself particularly good. Lynching are democracy. There's a reason the US Constitution blunts democracy and (intentionally) built an antogistic system full of roadblocks and logjams. The more democratic first attempt at a government failed spectacularly.
 
They keep talking about how Biden's "successes" are going unappreciated, as if it's all Fox News' fault. They don't understand, or care, that numbers going up on paper are not translating to real-life tangible benefits.
It also does not help that his successes end up being adjusted after they are announced.
 
This would have worked if the lottery style of selection had been written into the Constitution from the get-go. Heck, believe every single public office should be selected via lottery, down to school boards, etc.. There would be certain qualifications, such as minimum and maximum ages for selection. Some others - to be selected as President/VP, you'd have had to do a term first as a governor/Representative/Senator. To be governor, would have had to serve a term in the state assembly first. Staggered selections, some longer terms for continuity's sake. This also ensures term limits - once you have served your term in the office you are no longer eligible for selection to that office. This also means no political parties. There would be ways to remove those who refused to serve, malfeasance in office, etc.

In this environment, an obvious non-starter. The trust is long gone, no way in hell could we trust them to put in any sort of fair and equitable selection system.
 
I'll grant it's an interesting idea in a vacuum, but this seems like a long way around Robin Hood's barn to avoid electing exclusively psychopaths (which is a current problem). I'll give the author credit for identifying that psychos are a big part of the problem, though I'll also note his example (George Santos) is extremely questionable given the point he's attempting to make.

But back to the core of the problem: what's wrong with structuring the law such that political office strips you of certain legal protections, that is to say, making it much easier for the electorate to boink you out of office using non-ballot methods without serious risk to themselves? The current bigger problem than electing exclusively psychopaths is the impossibility of holding them accountable legally outside of waiting for another election, which in the era of instant satisfaction is, quite frankly, too long given the damage a dedicated psycho can do in a zero accountability environment.

Psychopaths need strong reasons to behave, and having the full weight of law enforcement protecting them is not how you provide strong reasons for psychos to behave.
 
They are just retarded... do they think that a random sample from the street wouldnt put them all in camps for degeneracy and corruption?
It would also make korruption very very expensive---
 
In Athens, the exact opposite happened, as contrary to many other democratic systems, it was innately anti-bureaucratic with its selection by lot, by removing the ability for repeated elections and consolidation, as well as preventing specialization, it removes the crux of bureaucratic power, specialization and competence in field which garners power by virtue that few others can perform it. The problem is that applying the Athenian model to any modern day nation ignores that Athens was a city-state with some 60,000 citizens, homogeneous, had a body politic actually interested in the issues of the day, lacked any notion of political party, and also limited enfranchisement.
The system as the author proposes would last as long as one cycle before everyone flipped out about minority underrepresentation and it was gamed until we're governed by a bunch of dangerhairs and DMV Shanequas.

They're preparing us for a cancelled election, aren't they?
I've said it before and I'll say it again: there is a strong chance the next election will be put off indefinitely due to some national crisis, political violence, etc. Doesn't even have to be a false flag, just taking advantage of circumstances.

I'd say it's about 50/50 we get a November election and Presidential Oath in January.
 
"Here is why participating in democracy is bad for democracy. To save democracy we must institute a system that is not democracy!"
Look, I don't like democracy either, but electing people "at random" (from a list I'm sure you didn't stack with your own ideological lackeys) is idiocy.

How about instead we institute a nice Citizen's Republic wherein franchise is only held by those willing to either risk their lives or devote huge amounts of their time to upholding and defending their society?
But that wouldn't work for you because it would absolutely disqualify most of your shiftless, amoral, feckless ilk wouldn't it?
 
"Here is why participating in democracy is bad for democracy. To save democracy we must institute a system that is not democracy!"
Look, I don't like democracy either, but electing people "at random" (from a list I'm sure you didn't stack with your own ideological lackeys) is idiocy.

How about instead we institute a nice Citizen's Republic wherein franchise is only held by those willing to either risk their lives or devote huge amounts of their time to upholding and defending their society?
But that wouldn't work for you because it would absolutely disqualify most of your shiftless, amoral, feckless ilk wouldn't it?

Sounds good to me, already served over twenty years in the military.
 
What if we did the same with mayors, governors, legislators, justices and even presidents?
Justice Scalia has already addressed this:
Basically, a significant majority of the law is so boring it will put most people to sleep.
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again: there is a strong chance the next election will be put off indefinitely due to some national crisis, political violence, etc. Doesn't even have to be a false flag, just taking advantage of circumstances.

I'd say it's about 50/50 we get a November election and Presidential Oath in January.
Biden after shutting down the election in Jan. 25
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Cool story. And what, exactly, happened to the Athenians for the next few thousand years when they came up against a chain of more robust less convoluted state structures?

I just learned last week that things like Gyros and Tzatziki, that I consider stereotypically Greek, are actually arguably Turkish.

Which makes sense if you know history.
 
Film studios right now are doing something where they hire first time directors to make big blockbuster films. They advertise this as promoting new talent. What they're actually doing is giving these people massive projects that are way over their head, and giving them far less creative control over the project. Essentially making it so "director" just means the person who tells people where to point the camera. With the actual creative control in the hands of the executive producers and the people who run the studio.

That's essentially what would happen if you remove deciding who runs the country from the hands of the people. A group of bureaucrats find a way to rig the process so it always operates in their favor. You can't figure this out through simulations, a computer can't determine this would occur.
 
Say it with me now: The United States is NOT a Democracy! It is a Representative Republic. The Framers avoided making our government a Democracy for a fucking reason.
 
Trump going against Biden is their nightmare.

A lot of people bought that Biden won the first time out of sheer intellectual cowardice, not being willing or able to accept that "democracy" is truly fucking dead in this country.

A lot of those people, however, will not be capable of buying a second Biden win over Trump. And they know it.

Winning means fucking nothing if the months following are filled with societal disarray.
This case is what I think the establishment wants. They want to jail trump so Biden looks clean and squeaky despite the fact he makes Nixon, and the Clinton family seem like boy scouts.
The government is out to lunch and no one trusts the media but people don't care because drumpflr is literally Hitler who committed treason for questing muh heckin election and Georgia needs to jail him ASAP.
 
Say it with me now: The United States is NOT a Democracy! It is a Representative Republic. The Framers avoided making our government a Democracy for a fucking reason.
Another thing to note is that the American system was somewhat cleverly designed so that one specific branch of govt would never have absolute power over all of the others. Like Congress votes on laws, however those laws have to be approved by the president. Congress is elected by people in their state. And who determines if a law is legal under the US Constitution is the Supreme Court. Which is picked by the president. It makes it so if anyone wants to make a substantial change it has to at some point be agreed upon by at least 2 of these 3 parties. It was designed this way so that in 10-20 years after the founding document gets signed that the next guy who takes over can't just rewrite half of it and say he's king now. The electoral college also made it so who gets to pick the president can't be manipulated by bribing people who live in costal cities and fucking over people in rural parts of the country.

In China for example they didn't have any of these checks and balances so all Chairman Xi needed to remove term limits was just his party voting in his direction. They also don't have fair elections so he got to choose who made up his party. People in rural parts of the country also live in squalor because the government has zero incentive to do anything for them.
 
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