Opinion Elections Are Bad for Democracy - NYT

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On the eve of the first debate of the 2024 presidential race, trust in government is rivaling historic lows. Officials have been working hard to safeguard elections and assure citizens of their integrity. But if we want public office to have integrity, we might be better off eliminating elections altogether.

If you think that sounds anti-democratic, think again. The ancient Greeks invented democracy, and in Athens many government officials were selected through sortition — a random lottery from a pool of candidates. In the United States, we already use a version of a lottery to select jurors. What if we did the same with mayors, governors, legislators, justices and even presidents?

People expect leaders chosen at random to be less effective than those picked systematically. But in multiple experiments led by the psychologist Alexander Haslam, the opposite held true. Groups actually made smarter decisions when leaders were chosen at random than when they were elected by a group or chosen based on leadership skill.

Why were randomly chosen leaders more effective? They led more democratically. “Systematically selected leaders can undermine group goals,” Dr. Haslam and his colleagues suggest, because they have a tendency to “assert their personal superiority.” When you’re anointed by the group, it can quickly go to your head: I’m the chosen one.

When you know you’re picked at random, you don’t experience enough power to be corrupted by it. Instead, you feel a heightened sense of responsibility: I did nothing to earn this, so I need to make sure I represent the group well. And in one of the Haslam experiments, when a leader was picked at random, members were more likely to stand by the group’s decisions.

Over the past year I’ve floated the idea of sortition with a number of current members of Congress. Their immediate concern is ability: How do we make sure that citizens chosen randomly are capable of governing?

In ancient Athens, people had a choice about whether to participate in the lottery. They also had to pass an examination of their capacity to exercise public rights and duties. In America, imagine that anyone who wants to enter the pool has to pass a civics test — the same standard as immigrants applying for citizenship. We might wind up with leaders who understand the Constitution.

A lottery would also improve our odds of avoiding the worst candidates in the first place. When it comes to character, our elected officials aren’t exactly crushing it. To paraphrase William F. Buckley Jr., I’d rather be governed by the first 535 people in the phone book. That’s because the people most drawn to power are usually the least fit to wield it.

The most dangerous traits in a leader are what psychologists call the dark triad of personality traits: narcissism, Machiavellianism and psychopathy. What these traits share is a willingness to exploit others for personal gain. People with dark triad traits tend to be more politically ambitious — they’re attracted to authority for its own sake. But we often fall under their spell. Is that you, George Santos?

In a study of elections worldwide, candidates who were rated by experts as having high psychopathy scores actually did better at the ballot box. In the United States, presidents assessed as having psychopathic and narcissistic tendencies were more persuasive with the public than their peers. A common explanation is that they’re masters of fearless dominance and superficial charm, and we mistake their confidence for competence. Sadly, it starts early: Even kids who display narcissistic personality traits get more leadership nominations and claim to be better leaders. (They aren’t.)

If the dark triad wins an election, we all lose. When psychologists rated the first 42 American presidents, the narcissists were more likely to take reckless risks, make unethical decisions and get impeached. Add a dash of Machiavellianism and a pinch of psychopathy, and you get autocrats like Putin, Erdoğan, Orbán and Duterte.

Eliminate voting, and candidates with dark triad traits would be less likely than they are now to rise to the top. Of course, there’s also a risk that a lottery would deprive us of the chance to select a leader with distinctive skills. At this point, that’s a risk I’m willing to take. As lucky as America was to have Lincoln at the helm, it’s more important to limit our exposure to bad character than to roll the dice on the hopes of finding the best.

Besides, if Lincoln were alive now, it’s hard to imagine that he’d even put his top hat in the ring. In a world filled with divisiveness and derision, evidence shows that members of Congress are increasingly rewarded for incivility. And they know it.

A lottery would give a fair shot to people who aren’t tall enough or male enough to win. It would also open the door to people who aren’t connected or wealthy enough to run. Our broken campaign finance system lets the rich and powerful buy their way into races while preventing people without money or influence from getting on the ballot. They’re probably better candidates: Research suggests that on average, people who grow up in low-income families tend to be more effective leaders and less likely to cheat — they’re less prone to narcissism and entitlement.

Switching to sortition would save a lot of money too. The 2020 elections alone cost upward of $14 billion. And if there’s no campaign, there are no special interests offering to help pay for it.

Finally, no voting also means no boundaries to gerrymander and no Electoral College to dispute. Instead of questioning whether millions of ballots were counted accurately, we could watch the lottery live, like we do with teams getting their lottery picks in the NBA draft.

Other countries have begun to see the promise of sortition. Two decades ago, Canadian provinces and the Dutch government started using sortition to create citizens’ assemblies that generated ideas for improving democracy. In the past few years, the French, British and German governments have run lotteries to select citizens to work on climate change policies. Ireland tried a hybrid model, gathering 33 politicians and 66 randomly chosen citizens for its 2012 constitutional convention. In Bolivia, the nonprofit Democracy in Practice works with schools to replace student council elections with lotteries. Instead of elevating the usual suspects, it welcomes a wider range of students to lead and solve real problems in their schools and their communities.

As we prepare for America to turn 250 years old, it may be time to rethink and renew our approach to choosing officials. The lifeblood of a democracy is the active participation of the people. There is nothing more democratic than offering each and every citizen an equal opportunity to lead.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/21/opinion/elections-democracy.html (Archive)
 
What they don't tell you is that sortition would lead to a system where the bureaucracy and lobbyists totally run the show since that's exactly what happens when you shove inexperienced people into politics.
 
Considering the lack of quality in the faggots who "represent" our interests in Washington, this sounds reasonable, but...

What they don't tell you is that sortition would lead to a system where the bureaucracy and lobbyists totally run the show since that's exactly what happens when you shove inexperienced people into politics.
Yep. If you managed to kill the deep state and ban lobbyists and other political action groups, this might lead to superior outcomes over the current system, but I think we all know that's never going to happen. The 1% have a system that works extremely well at funneling money from the pockets of ordinary people into their own, and they're never going to do anything to threaten that.
 
Studies show the author is retarded. The sample size examined was this article
 
WE DID IT! WE GOT ONE OF THE FUCKING COMMUNISTS TO JUST COME OUT AND TELL THE TRUTH!

Holy fuck talk about jumping the shark.

Officials have been working hard to safeguard elections and assure citizens of their integrity.

What a bold faced lie. The gall of this faggot. There have been no efforts whatsoever to increase integrity since 2020, and in fact there have been multiple attempts at making it worse like with HR1 which would make mail in voting permanent and nation wide.

The most dangerous traits in a leader are what psychologists call the dark triad of personality traits: narcissism, Machiavellianism and psychopathy. What these traits share is a willingness to exploit others for personal gain. People with dark triad traits tend to be more politically ambitious — they’re attracted to authority for its own sake. But we often fall under their spell. Is that you, George Santos?

Really nigger? That is who you choose? Is the only person you see with those characteristics in US politics that one guy?

I want this dude dead. I am seriously this close to glowposting.
 
What they don't tell you is that sortition would lead to a system where the bureaucracy and lobbyists totally run the show since that's exactly what happens when you shove inexperienced people into politics.
In Athens, the exact opposite happened, as contrary to many other democratic systems, it was innately anti-bureaucratic with its selection by lot, by removing the ability for repeated elections and consolidation, as well as preventing specialization, it removes the crux of bureaucratic power, specialization and competence in field which garners power by virtue that few others can perform it. The problem is that applying the Athenian model to any modern day nation ignores that Athens was a city-state with some 60,000 citizens, homogeneous, had a body politic actually interested in the issues of the day, lacked any notion of political party, and also limited enfranchisement.
 
What we lack is a true concern for the society and it’s future in the people in charge. The people who want power shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near it. People who want society to be stable and thriving should be the ones governing.
We have a ruling class who are both elected and unelected (politicians, media, NGOs, banking, corporate) and their wants are not aligned with what’s best for society.
If everyone in charge had a true reason for wanting society to thrive and be good, we’d instantly see better outcomes.
People need two things actually: a stake in the future of their society, and the knowledge that the people they’re governing can oust them.
What’s that cautionary tale from history? The desk of the chief judge was made from the skin of his predecessor, just to make that point.
I firmly believe that those in charge should have to live off the median wage of their country, and live in the most deprived and crime ridden area of it, without security.
That alone would sort a lot of stuff.
 
Eliminate voting, and candidates with dark triad traits would be less likely than they are now to rise to the top. Of course, there’s also a risk that a lottery would deprive us of the chance to select a leader with distinctive skills. At this point, that’s a risk I’m willing to take. As lucky as America was to have Lincoln at the helm, it’s more important to limit our exposure to bad character than to roll the dice on the hopes of finding the best.

Besides, if Lincoln were alive now, it’s hard to imagine that he’d even put his top hat in the ring. In a world filled with divisiveness and derision, evidence shows that members of Congress are increasingly rewarded for incivility. And they know it.
The person who made this article knows as much about history as they do politics. What mid-19th century USA did they read about?

This whole piece is filled with wild statements but this stands out as a highlight of pure ignorance or intentional revisionism.
 
If you think that sounds anti-democratic, think again. The ancient Greeks invented democracy, and in Athens many government officials were selected through sortition — a random lottery from a pool of candidates.
Cool story. And what, exactly, happened to the Athenians for the next few thousand years when they came up against a chain of more robust less convoluted state structures?

This guy smells like a wumao to me.
 
Like others have said before me; this would only work if you had smaller societys who were more homogenous (ie: race, morals and religion). I do agree that we need to stop electing clowns with trust funds and move toward the putting the average WORKING citizen in charge. There is that old saying about power corrupting though, so who knows whats the best solution. Terms should only be 1 too. In Canada this Clown in Chief can remain there as long as his jesters vote for him constantly.
 
I feel like Adam might not have a great knowledge of history but heard about some things that he thinks are a great idea because he is not very smart and did not bother to research the consequences of systems of the past.
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Ah...guy who got the bare minimum PhD suggests retarded shit.
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Shaved rat vibe on lock.
 
At first I thought the thread title was Kiwi editorializing. Now it seems like NYT is in the business of straight-up trollposting with this fart-sniffing thought experiment and purposefully-provocative headline.
 
The ancient Greeks invented democracy, and in Athens many government officials were selected through sortition — a random lottery from a pool of candidates. In the United States, we already use a version of a lottery to select jurors. What if we did the same with mayors, governors, legislators, justices and even presidents?
Except the lottery wouldn't be random.

And the author knows it. That's why they're proposing it.
 
There's no mask to take off, anymore. Now they're ripping off their faces and exposing their skulls.

This just confirms that "Our Democracy" is code for elite hegemony. The crux of this argument is "how dare you vote for someone we disapprove of!"

Populism IS democracy. It does not become undemocratic merely because it hurts people's feefees.
They're preparing us for a cancelled election, aren't they?
They certainly don't seem too confident of their chances, even with Trump on the ropes and their fortification schemes in place.

All their recent power-grabs are signs of their increasing desperation.
 
The most immediate problem with a system like this is the existence of those officials that have never held elected office. Advisors, beaurecrats of all shapes and sizes, they have already more or less wrested control from the public but a system like this would make it de facto. When a total random is inserted into an official position they are going to look to the people around them that know what they're doing, which will be those exact nepotists that crave power and control.
 
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