Culture Wars General - KiA Diet Coke Edition

[Marissa Moira]

In my opinion, it’s easy to mock people like TheQuartering and AngryJoe since they seem like the biggest gatekeepers in the “Culture War” because of how well-known they are on the Internet. (I only know somewhat of Razorfist due to his political opinions, and not because of his love for games.)

The problem I have, however, is that these same “gatekeepers“ that want to keep people out of gaming for the same SJW/anti-SJW opinions would be the same ones that end up gaining virtue so much that they do a complete 180 since they never get challenged on their opinions about the state of the gaming industry in today’s marketplace.

Most gatekeepers are well-intentioned, but there are some that are only doing the “gate keeping” because it’s trendy to have to coerce and manipulate people into believing that a “culture war” is the equivalent into being a fan of a sports team or political party in the same climate of today‘s.

If anything, blaming today‘s “gatekeepers” is only going through the surface level opinion and thinking your own opinion is the right way. It’s much deeper than that.

You're correct, stuff like that always happens. Not only that most of the people who want to be Gatekeepers have little to no influence on the overall hobby or medium. You don't exactly have the power to stop Shelly Fujo Bluehair from ordering anime from amazon for example and sharing it with her discord friends. All the fan things pretty much begin at basement level, this is just a case of it being literal.

Like take for example what happened with Geofront and their translation efforts. They eventually went professional due to the attention they garnered with their efforts with the Kiseki games. That's kind of how the process has always worked, nothing like gatekeepers or anything like that have really been ever needed.

 

[Wormy]

But even if we ignore that (we shouldn't, but I will to steelman your position), why should we (gamers and devs) care? SJWs declared gamers to dead, called them every slur they can think of, and even pushed some devs out of the industry. After all that, why should we give them a second, third, or forth chance?

That isn't the problem. It's when the definition of "SJW's who need to be purged" gets so goddamned broad it includes anyone whos to the left of Nick Fuentes, which means my ass is out. This is self preservation.

 

[Hammr2]

That just boils down to people being paranoid. We're currently going through a phase where new technology has entered the fray and people are still figuring out how to properly utilize it so there's expected growing pains. The advanced facial mocap tech used for Horizon for example is able to get very detailed right to emulating the changing wrinkles formed while talking or emoting.

Considering how you said (may or may not jokingly) Aloy looked fugly in early HorizonFW thread (2020) then bullshitting about faulty high tech mocap (2021) and later about different Aloy face for different builds (2022). The "knowledge"/larping understand 100% about Soyny is gross.

All of this just boils down to, devs know they screwed up so they fix it (silently) somewhat. But hey it's gamers/coomers fault being overreact and so it's fine news media act against the bigot gamers on Aloy natural beauty.

Since Aloy is a female character, it's easier to flame on culture war rather than the whole Sonic movie redesign case "entitled fanboys".

Spoiler: Face comparison

Early preview


Final product, definitely less fat/round and better lightning not to blend jawline and neck. It's clearly worse in preview version.


The model in an interview 2017, a cooking youtube video 2020 and piniterest search

Did you even play 4?
View attachment 3219755

Or cute characters can be seen as dumb and faggy. It's why Sonic was invented in the first place because Mario lacked a cool edge.

And when you have grown men fawning over cute things it's the same reaction people had to Bronies. Like the grown ass men currently fawning over Anya from Spy Family are certainly getting looks.

Imagine cherry picking an option player can choose to be "ugly" rather than being forced. Here's the whole trailer for it.

It's like seeing a boomer trying to cosplay as many video game characters as much as he can.
But hey, thanks for being Cpt.Obvious to everyone on KF here knows a typical middle age man looks horrible when he's crossdressing.

MLP is aimed for little girls, meanwhile I'm sure Spy X Family is at least more approachable for more audience since it's a one of the current trendy anime.

But hey I can even include genre aim for adult men (seinen) with parenting and little kid too like, Sweetness & Lightning and Poco.

FYI, both are written by women btw.
But you are probably cherry picking on people having bad thoughts on character design rather than whole theme.

Look Mr. Pot, just because Papa Elon bought Twitter doesn't mean you can go around calling everyone racial slurs just yet.

And women can find cute things faggy and unappealing as well. It happens quite more frequently that you may realize.

See how funny it is when you're accusing someone using slur, and then the next sentence, you're the one using slur instead.

But the women type that find cute things unappealing, sure they exist. But in general, the ones find cute things appealing and ones find cute things unappealing, which one do you think is more common?

I can give you one video game example, Apex Legends, between two characters Wraith and Wattson. Character pick rate, Wraith is the highest while Wattson is one of the bottom pick, for obvious gameplay meta reason.
But if I only search the word "Wattson" on Google, it'll show the character Wattson immediately and loads of her images. Yet with Wraith you need to be a little bit more specific.

In danbooru (fanarts) search (obviously have some NSFW), Wattson search has way more result than Wraith.
I'll even let you guess, which character is being more cosplayed by female players.
I'm also letting you guess, even if a female player mains Wraith, what kind of skin does she use? Comparing to male players.

Or lets say Overwatch, between two tanks, D.Va and Zarya, which one is more appealing to female players?

I don't like stereotyping, but it's just what it is.

Let me use this fine example,

 

[Marissa Moira]

@Hammr2 reply bug so I can't quote you directly

See how funny it is when you're accusing someone using slur, and then the next sentence, you're the one using slur instead.

This went over your head, this was a pun about the pot calling the kettle black

Also referencing anita sarkessian in 2022, You let these people live in your head rent free. She has not been relevant in nearly a decade.

 

[Hammr2]

@Hammr2 reply bug so I can't quote you directly


This went over your head, this was a pun about the pot calling the kettle black

View attachment 3222511

Also referencing anita sarkessian in 2022, You let these people live in your head rent free.

You also let thing goes over your head, when I'm implying your love to projection onto others.
I haven't seen you actually give any example yet, only dodging and moving goal post as usual. Like actually prove me wrong.

Edit: In case if you don't know, it's not a reply bug. It's dear leader limits on replying long post, and actually wants users to quote specific sentence/paragraph rather than the whole post.

 

[Marissa Moira]

You also let thing goes over your head, when I'm implying your love to projection onto others.
I haven't seen you actually give any example yet, only dodging and moving goal post as usual. Like actually prove me wrong.

Edit: In case if you don't know, it's not a reply bug. It's dear leader limits on replying long post, and actually wants users to quote specific sentence/paragraph rather than the whole post.

Prove you wrong on what? That you're just weeb #123945543 looking to make anime a hill to die on for political reasons just like all the other people on the spectrum of neo-liberals?

 

[Hammr2]

Prove you wrong on what? That you're just weeb #123945543 looking to make anime a hill to die on for political reasons just like all the other people on the spectrum of neo-liberals?

Like any point replies of mine.
Call me a weeb, thats a lot from you used to have 2B avatar and love "thick thigh" btw, also ani avatar. And I know exactly it was a different colour palette for 2B, dark skin one.

Context.


It's really funny to me, let say how Sony western game box on thighs and that is coming from you.

But "it's just you shitposting for lulz"

I'm actually content with my hobby right now.

Could have spent more time in MonHun World, because a friend chickened out due to save file loss.

You actually don't remember I'm okay with people consuming woke stuffs, as long as they don't forcing their value onto other people hobby.

Except, it just really isn't that simple is it.

I'm actually more tolerant to fanservice censorship, since it's also to make fun of coomers too. But I'm also understand the whole slippery slope of censorship discussion and in turns agree with later more. All the age ratings and censorship thing for the sake of children is "useless", more or less because usual parenting faults is taken too lightly.

Like GTA series, despite all mainstream news media tried to blame all of its problematic (mostly violence) for years, they still hasn't changed. Now, it has to censor the "transphobic" part in GTA5 remaster because just some game journalist (Kotaku) reported about it some years ago?

I don't even play GTA5, so it doesn't really affect me, not one bit. If anything gaming hobbies have to change way more, because of ESG and most people in industry decide things are too problematic with "current days value".

But you do you, being Soyny or foot fetish researcher.

 

[Marissa Moira]

Like any point replies of mine.
Call me a weeb, thats a lot from you used to have 2B avatar and love "thick thigh" btw, also ani avatar. And I know exactly it was a different colour palette for 2B, dark skin one.

Context.
View attachment 3222576 View attachment 3222578

It's really funny to me, let say how Sony western game box on thighs and that is coming from you.
View attachment 3222582
But "it's just you shitposting for lulz"

I'm actually content with my hobby right now.
View attachment 3222602
Could have spent more time in MonHun World, because a friend chickened out due to save file loss.

You actually don't remember I'm okay with people consuming woke stuffs, as long as they don't forcing their value onto other people hobby.
View attachment 3222567
Except, it just really isn't that simple is it.

I'm actually more tolerant to fanservice censorship, since it's also to make fun of coomers too. But I'm also understand the whole slippery slope of censorship discussion and in turns agree with later more. All the age ratings and censorship thing for the sake of children is "useless", more or less because usual parenting faults is taken too lightly.

Like GTA series, despite all mainstream news media tried to blame all of its problematic (mostly violence) for years, they still hasn't changed. Now, it has to censor the "transphobic" part in GTA5 remaster because just some game journalist (Kotaku) reported about it some years ago?

I don't even play GTA5, so it doesn't really affect me, not one bit. If anything gaming hobbies have to change way more, because of ESG and most people in industry decide things are too problematic with "current days value".

But you do you, being Soyny or foot fetish researcher.
View attachment 3222609

Dude I don't if you're new to this whole thing. But Weebs shitting on other weebs has long existed for decades/since the beginning of recorded time and it's how in the larger picture shit has always worked. Nobody, not a feminist, not a bible thumper, not a politician can shit on weebs harder than another weeb. The level of hell in dante's inferno where everyone is beating up each other for all eternity, that's the anime fandom as a whole. Nobody also takes it seriously, so any attempt to rally the troops in either direction shall ever amount to anything. It is by design and function perfect disorganization. The slippery slope fallacy cannot exist because there is no slope to begin with.

It's why many people now troll the others who have been "traumatized by censorship" because what's usually been censored was a garbage series or game. Which draws becak to how weebs shit on other weebs for their taste.

There will be no reckoning, there will be no holy war or final confrontation, no closure at watching your ideological enemies vanquished into the night. You will just be shat on for you shit taste until the hydrogen death of the universe happens.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole]

Idk if it counts but once I witnessed an intesting shitshow around so-called "ugly "characters. Not in the context of uglifying the already existing franchises but in the context of creating new characters which are not some coomer dream material. Like let's say onew wants to make a game with intentionally ugly protagonist, is it ok or not? The agrument was that if you create an ugly character you are already SJW. Of course that's nothing more then discussion between ppl who are not related to gamedev but such narrative does exist, even though it way lesser quantinies then the opposte.

The reason or reasoning for the character being ugly is what matters. If it's for "representation" that will stick out like a sore thumb, it always does. In Days of Future Past the Mr. Midget played the bad guy, who wasn't a midget in the comics. It worked fine because there was no spiel about dwarfism empowering him or some shit.

A friend of mine is becoming less and less woke and recently he said, paraphrased using my own words, "why is there suddenly all these negroe elves and asian dwarfs in my fantasy/historical fiction? How do they become asian from living in a cave?". That's when representation goes wrong, it takes you out of it. Mr Midget worked fine and in Louise CK's show he had two blonde daughters and the actress who played their mom was black. I didn't even think about it when I first saw it.

An ugly character will work if its handled like a real character and not just a pawn in some stupid online war. As an example, people liked Pigsy just fine.

There is not a single AAA game that my wife would ever play. Of all the women I know there is only one... one that plays anything remotely close to that and she likes animal crossing and Mass Effect. They love their cutesy little simple tablet/mobile puzzle games and you know what, more power to them, but the sooner these companies accept there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that your average (non-twitch tit streaming) broad is going to start playing Elden Ring or CoD the sooner we can ditch the pretense of catering to a group that doesn't exist.

There are women that will play Elden Ring... if a guy is around, but they won't play it alone at home in their spare time. Misunderstand that any way you want. It sounds demeaning but it isn't, it's about having fun with someone else and a lady friend is less likely than a man to pick up a copy of Dragon Age.
A similar thing can also be seen in some sports where there are many women that are very dedicated and accomplished, but if all the dudes stopped doing [sport] then maybe 80% of the chicks would lose interest. Like, how many skatergirls do you think picked up a skateboard because of the skaterboys?

 

[Wormy]

There are women that will play Elden Ring... if a guy is around, but they won't play it alone at home in their spare time. Misunderstand that any way you want. It sounds demeaning but it isn't, it's about having fun with someone else and a lady friend is less likely than a man to pick up a copy of Dragon Age.

They can surprise you though. My wife went in HARD on the two PS1 Lunar games, and I wouldn't touch that weeb bait with a 10 foot pole. And no, she's not a weeb or even an anime fan. I'd love to buy games for her, but I have no idea what will stick and what won't. She also still plays Skyrim even though I stopped over a year ago.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole]

They can surprise you though. My wife went in HARD on the two PS1 Lunar games, and I wouldn't touch that weeb bait with a 10 foot pole. And no, she's not a weeb or even an anime fan. I'd love to buy games for her, but I have no idea what will stick and what won't. She also still plays Skyrim even though I stopped over a year ago.

Yeah, it was meant as a counterpoint to the idea of "look how many women plays games and therefore the playerbase of [popular title] must be XX%...". There are games where some amount of women will be buying them but more than that will end up playing them. That makes them a strange market. Times are changing but that's how I see it.

And like you say it can be hard to guess what sticks or figure out what the appeal is. One lady might have played through Dragon Age 1 ten times but won't entertain the thought of taking a look at Pillars of Eternity, Divinity, old Infinity Engine games etc. What about Dragon Age 2 or 3? No! Just 1. How do you sell a cRPG to a person like that?

 

[Wormy]

Yeah, it was meant as a counterpoint to the idea of "look how many women plays games and therefore the playerbase of [popular title] must be XX%...". There are games where some amount of women will be buying them but more than that will end up playing them. That makes them a strange market. Times are changing but that's how I see it.

And like you say it can be hard to guess what sticks or figure out what the appeal is. One lady might have played through Dragon Age 1 ten times but won't entertain the thought of taking a look at Pillars of Eternity, Divinity, old Infinity Engine games etc. What about Dragon Age 2 or 3? No! Just 1. How do you sell a cRPG to a person like that?

Also, has your friend that is becoming less woke read LOTR? If he's so upset seeing non whites in his fantasy, he might lose it when it starts talking about the Easterlings or the Haradrim...

 

[UnsufficentBoobage]

And like you say it can be hard to guess what sticks or figure out what the appeal is. One lady might have played through Dragon Age 1 ten times but won't entertain the thought of taking a look at Pillars of Eternity, Divinity, old Infinity Engine games etc. What about Dragon Age 2 or 3? No! Just 1. How do you sell a cRPG to a person like that?

Fuck, so this is not my retard brain, but the genitals?

Trust me, it is annoying to get recommended something because you enjoyed whatever, then hate it immediately.

 

[Marissa Moira]

A friend of mine is becoming less and less woke and recently he said, paraphrased using my own words, "why is there suddenly all these negroe elves and asian dwarfs in my fantasy/historical fiction? How do they become asian from living in a cave?". That's when representation goes wrong, it takes you out of it. Mr Midget worked fine and in Louise CK's show he had two blonde daughters and the actress who played their mom was black. I didn't even think about it when I first saw it.

I don't know ask the Falmer.

It's shown in the movies during the birth of Uruk-Hai but Tolkien did use an early version of genetic theory that believed that trauma could warp the genetic structure of people and animals. So by using torture you could warp an elf into a further horrid abomination. Of course this isn't true but Crick and Watson only published their stuff in 1952 where at LOTR was published later in 1954 but was worked on for far longer.

Now the one thing that has happened is timeskips. They'll have a little white girl playing the character but then the fast forward will feature the adult version as another race. It's happened a few times and it always confuses the hell out of audience. It is genuine narrative breaking.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole]

Fuck, so this is not my retard brain, but the genitals?

Trust me, it is annoying to get recommended something because you enjoyed whatever, then hate it immediately.

Nah, it's not really tied to gender in my opinion. Like, some old sailors used to take up knitting to pass the time but that doesn't mean they have any interest in joining the local sewing circle and learn lace knitting. Even though that would probably be interesting for someone that knits a lot. I don't know what it is.

 

[BananaSplit]

That isn't the problem. It's when the definition of "SJW's who need to be purged" gets so goddamned broad it includes anyone whos to the left of Nick Fuentes, which means my ass is out. This is self preservation.

You're worrying too much on that aspect as we're by default nobodies. I also believe the concept of political spectrum is absolutely stupid anyway and shouldn't be taken account ever: people can share and follow the same principles in spite of their differences in other things, and assholes & smartasses can come from any side.

Dude I don't if you're new to this whole thing. But Weebs shitting on other weebs has long existed for decades/since the beginning of recorded time and it's how in the larger picture shit has always worked. Nobody, not a feminist, not a bible thumper, not a politician can shit on weebs harder than another weeb. The level of hell in dante's inferno where everyone is beating up each other for all eternity, that's the anime fandom as a whole. Nobody also takes it seriously, so any attempt to rally the troops in either direction shall ever amount to anything. It is by design and function perfect disorganization. The slippery slope fallacy cannot exist because there is no slope to begin with.

It's why many people now troll the others who have been "traumatized by censorship" because what's usually been censored was a garbage series or game. Which draws becak to how weebs shit on other weebs for their taste.

There will be no reckoning, there will be no holy war or final confrontation, no closure at watching your ideological enemies vanquished into the night. You will just be shat on for you shit taste until the hydrogen death of the universe happens.

The fact is that it's less bantering and more you sucking up the cocks of corporations like crazy: between getting upset over informative posts, defending the power-trips of localizers and promoting blind rabid consumerism. Whether it's intentional or not but considering how much of a schizo you are (and one who spends way too much time on the Internet), it wouldn't surprise us you believe your own ad hominems and lies.

And what kind of moron believes that not wanting localizers trying to ruin (japanese) videogames, either through bad translations and censorship, is part of some kind of political movement? Billy Usher from OAG believed that way and everyone can look where he ended up. You're apparently cut from the same cloth as Billy from what @Hammr2 has gathered on you, with all the projections, hypocrisy, obsession of the political spectrum and the tunnel vision on many topics. The sole minor difference is that you label yourself as an "enlighten centrist" to show off how 'smart' you are and how everyone else is dumb.

People just want to play games in peace without faggots in positions of power turning the medium into their political scapegoat. The idea apply to other hobbies as well.

 

[YourFriendlyLurker]

"look how many women plays games and therefore the playerbase of [popular title] must be XX%...".

I wonder if anyone even have stats regarding who plays what games, it's not like you have to send dickpic to the Steam every time you log in. Also I have never seen any figures-based studies how the game "aimed at women" should be different from the game "aimed at men" . The same is with racial issue, how does makig a protagonist black influences the auditory? I think all those things are either have never been properly researched or have never been published.

 

[Marissa Moira]

You're worrying too much on that aspect as we're by default nobodies. I also believe the concept of political spectrum is absolutely stupid anyway and shouldn't be taken account ever: people can share and follow the same principles in spite of their differences in other things, and assholes & smartasses can come from any side.


The fact is that it's less bantering and more you sucking up the cocks of corporations like crazy: between getting upset over informative posts, defending the power-trips of localizers and promoting blind rabid consumerism. Whether it's intentional or not but considering how much of a schizo you are (and one who spends way too much time on the Internet), it wouldn't surprise us you believe your own ad hominems and lies.

And what kind of moron believes that not wanting localizers trying to ruin (japanese) videogames, either through bad translations and censorship, is part of some kind of political movement? Billy Usher from OAG believed that way and everyone can look where he ended up. You're apparently cut from the same cloth as Billy from what @Hammr2 has gathered on you, with all the projections, hypocrisy, obsession of the political spectrum and the tunnel vision on many topics. The sole minor difference is that you label yourself as an "enlighten centrist" to show off how 'smart' you are and how everyone else is dumb.

People just want to play games in peace without faggots in positions of power turning the medium into their political scapegoat. The idea apply to other hobbies as well.

You getting buttmad about localizers has happened since the 80's when everything had been Ruined Forever™ because someone changed wording.

The reason why direct translations are not widely used is because you wind up getting unnatural sentences. People have tried doing so since VHS was a thing and providing translation notes and having the script wind up destroying the context. The longer the translation is the more chances you have this happening, especially if it involves verbal comedy. They'll translate the book, movie or game fully and usually never have another set of eyes to make sure that everything they're translating makes sense as a whole. This has been done thousands of times both professionally and on a fan level. And Literal Translation groups at a fan level wind up breaking up because nobody can agree on what's The One True Japanese and since you have a whole team of "experts" it's usually them jockeying to be King Weeb and then rage quitting when they're not as special as they thought they were. Literal translations have by and large been done mostly by machine translations today and it's considered a budget option because it's signifgantly cheaper than having a localizing team.

Anime and translated Japanese media as a whole has never functioned from a level of perfection, it's always worked on on a level of acceptable flaws. People finding beauty in it's imperfections, This has lead to shows being cut up and turning into million dollar franchises like Power Rangers. It's always been like this since the beginning, right down to Voltron being an accident because the Japanese team didn't realize the American company wanted Daltanious and not Go-Lion.

Literally everything you've ever suggested on keeping The Liberals®/SJWs/Whomstever out from ever touching a script has been tried and tried again multiple times on all levels. It's not some epidemic it's the system functioning as it's always been. Hell the Japanese themselves don't even bother having literal translations for english media they bring over. They will usually voice an american character with a specific amount of added gruffness because english to them sounds like something along the lines of german to english speakers.

 

[Judge Dredd]

I wonder if anyone even have stats regarding who plays what games, it's not like you have to send dickpic to the Steam every time you log in. Also I have never seen any figures-based studies how the game "aimed at women" should be different from the game "aimed at men" . The same is with racial issue, how does makig a protagonist black influences the auditory? I think all those things are either have never been properly researched or have never been published.

The ESA used to have stats, but they were criticised because any old woman who ever booted up candy crush on Facebook was counted as a female gamer. The results were more women than men play games, but women mostly play casual games, while men play action and competitive games.

There was one stat (I don't know where from) that in Korea, MOBAs are mostly played by women, but in the west they're mostly played by men.

Of course, the stats change nothing when it comes to demands. If women are a minority "games should be changed to appeal to women!". If women are the majority "games should be changed to appeal to women!".

 

[Marissa Moira]

The ESA used to have stats, but they were criticised because any old woman who ever booted up candy crush on Facebook was counted as a female gamer. The results were more women than men play games, but women mostly play casual games, while men play action and competitive games.

There was one stat (I don't know where from) that in Korea, MOBAs are mostly played by women, but in the west they're mostly played by men.

Of course, the stats change nothing when it comes to demands. If women are a minority "games should be changed to appeal to women!". If women are the majority "games should be changed to appeal to women!".

The mobile games being geared towards women is true on the deeper level. They will spend vast amounts of time and money on them daily.

The difference that will stick out is that in the formative years, girls still don't play games in the same quality or quantity that boys do. For other forms of media they will now average around the same though. Books for example boys and girls prefer similar types of hero stories. That's why most YA Authors try to aim towards similar standards. If you go by Joepsh Campbell's rules it's not an unsuccessful model to just have an arch type and just have them visually distinct by having them be a specific demographic because the end result should not matter if it follows something like The Hero's Journey. Because all that is, is a narrative framework to base everything around. Western literature itself is based around only a few great literary conflicts of which all stories came from.