Culture Wars General - KiA Diet Coke Edition

[BananaSplit]

It also isn't censorship since the original was released unaltered. They're saying "hey nobody liked the original game and found the character interactions stupid or clearly run by an agenda, stop wasting resources on a gay story and put resources into the gameplay systems"

That's censorship you're describing and defending right now though, altering a creative work under the false pretense it would attract more people by removing its main appeal (yuri magical girl setting in the case of Blue Reflection) you clearly don't like.

Games don't have to cater to everyone and can just aim for a specific type of audience even a small one (which mean in exchange there's more variety when titles do that way), that's a fact, so stop being a turbo-autist over games and genres you aren't into for god's sake.

 

[Marissa Moira]

That's censorship you're describing and defending right now though, altering a creative work under the false pretense it would attract more people by removing its main appeal (yuri magical girl setting in the case of Blue Reflection) you clearly don't like.

Games don't have to cater to everyone and can just aim for a specific type of audience even a small one (which mean in exchange there's more variety when titles do that way), that's a fact, so stop being a turbo-autist over games and genres you aren't into for god's sake.

Dude having an editor isn't a form of censorship, this is just how companies work. Games are not the creation of a sole individual 99% of the time. This is a group effort.

Something featuring gay characters is never enough to make a game worthwhile, they need actual substance in terms of gameplay.

If you want 100% pure unrestrained gay girls, there's a plethora of Hentai games already.

 

[ZMOT]

imagine defending self censorship via economic pressure as a group effort.
that's like claiming it was good that playboy removed all nudity (for funsies look up how that worked out for them).

 

[Marissa Moira]

imagine defending self censorship via economic pressure as a group effort.
that's like claiming it was good that playboy removed all nudity (for funsies look up how that worked out for them).

Yeah but the difference was people bought playboy when it had nudity, for Blue Reflection not only did people not buy it, it went over so poorly that the blu-ray release of the anime series was canceled. Now even Interspecies Reveiwers got a global physical release and that's a level beyond Blue Reflection in terms of nudity. So you're dealing with a series who's story was ass, who's fan service was ass, and who's game it was based on was ass.

Only now it's getting promoted because the sequel is coming out and they're trying to generate hype for it by stirring controversy.

Mind you the track record for Gust anime series hasn't really been all that well, the Atelier Escha and Logy anime wasn't anything all that great. So for something to get it's release canceled it meant it was a level below that.

 

[Thiletonomics]

imagine defending self censorship via economic pressure as a group effort.
that's like claiming it was good that playboy removed all nudity (for funsies look up how that worked out for them).

And even if the right thing is to agree to self-censor, then you run into another game that doesn't subject themselves to the same censorship standards, i.e. The Last of Us 2.

 

[BananaSplit]

game bombed there.

Blue Reflection bombed in japan

for Blue Reflection not only did people not buy it, it went over so poorly that the blu-ray release of the anime series was canceled.

The blu-ray release cancel was for the prologue anime of the sequel game title, which happened in 2021 anyway. It has nothing to do with the original game and its initial reception, you disingenuous faggot.

And Blue Reflection actually did relatively pretty well in Japan for a Gust's new IP during its time of release (in 2017) in comparison of others Gust titles. Hardly of a flop itself.

[PS4] Blue Reflection: Sword of the Girl Who Dances in Illusions (Koei Tecmo, 03/30/17) – 34,592 (New)
[PSV] Blue Reflection: Sword of the Girl Who Dances in Illusions (Koei Tecmo, 03/30/17) – 13,850 (New)

Media Create Sales: 3/27/17 – 4/2/17 - Gematsu

Musou Stars debuted at 40,368 sales on PlayStation 4 and 17,866 sales on PS Vita for a total of 58,234 sales, the latest Media Create sales figures reveal. Also new this week, Gust'

www.gematsu.com

[PS4] Atelier Lydie & Suelle: The Alchemists and the Mysterious Paintings (Gust, 12/21/17) – 21,129 (New)

Media Create Sales: 12/18/17 – 12/24/17 - Gematsu

The Idolmaster: Stella Stage for PlayStation 4 sold 23,772 copies during its first week of sales in Japan, the latest Media Create sales figures reveal. Also new, Atelier Lydie & Suelle: The…

www.gematsu.com

[PS4] Nights of Azure 2: Bride of the New Moon (Limited Edition Included) (Gust, 08/31/17) – 18,207 (New)
[PSV] Nights of Azure 2: Bride of the New Moon (Limited Edition Included) (Gust, 08/31/17) – 7,168 (New)

Media Create Sales: 8/28/17 – 9/3/17 - Gematsu

Everybody's Golf, the first PlayStation 4 entry in the long-running golf series, sold 100,719 during its first week of release in Japan, the latest Media Create sales figures reveal.

www.gematsu.com

Can't say I'm remotely surprised that you lie like you breathe however. You should keep a low-profile for a while instead of continuing your shitposting for your reputation's sake.

 

[Marissa Moira]

The blu-ray release cancel was for the prologue anime of the sequel game title, which happened in 2021 anyway. It has nothing to do with the original game and its initial reception, you disingenuous faggot.

And Blue Reflection actually did relatively pretty well in Japan for a Gust's new IP during its time of release (in 2017) in comparison of others Gust titles. Hardly of a flop itself.

Media Create Sales: 3/27/17 – 4/2/17 - Gematsu

Musou Stars debuted at 40,368 sales on PlayStation 4 and 17,866 sales on PS Vita for a total of 58,234 sales, the latest Media Create sales figures reveal. Also new this week, Gust'

www.gematsu.com

Media Create Sales: 12/18/17 – 12/24/17 - Gematsu

The Idolmaster: Stella Stage for PlayStation 4 sold 23,772 copies during its first week of sales in Japan, the latest Media Create sales figures reveal. Also new, Atelier Lydie & Suelle: The…

www.gematsu.com

Media Create Sales: 8/28/17 – 9/3/17 - Gematsu

Everybody's Golf, the first PlayStation 4 entry in the long-running golf series, sold 100,719 during its first week of release in Japan, the latest Media Create sales figures reveal.

www.gematsu.com

Can't say I'm remotely surprised that you lie like you breathe however. You should keep a low-profile for a while instead of continuing your shitposting for your reputation's sake.

Nope blue reflection underperformed and did not do well. You are absolutely wrong in saying that it did OK when KT even said it didn't meet their expectations.

Koei Tecmo expects record profits next year, weighs in on sales, teases future, more

From Niko Partners industry analyst Daniel Ahmad: Koei Tecmo had an increases in profit for the 7th consecutive year in a row. Ni-Oh shipped 1 million in its first two weeks and was a notable highlight of this fiscal year. Musou All-Stars (Koei character Dynasty Warriors like game, 130K) and...

www.neogaf.com

The series was already in trouble before the sequel was announced.

I mean it received a very low print number which attributed to it's rarity for a reason.

 

[BananaSplit]

"Musou All-Stars (Koei character Dynasty Warriors like game, 130K) and Blue Reflection (Gust New IP, 80K) were below expectations."

Interesting that Blue Reflection is below expectations, because that seems roughly in line with how the more recent Atelier games have done.

Quite interesting that Blue Reflection was under expectations at 80k. iirc Atelier Shallie shipped 80k across Japan/Asia and they seemed content with that (well content enough to keep plowing forward with the franchise) and it seems like fairly average sales for Gust's games these days.

Gotta agree with these posts from that neogaf thread. Considering the thread is from May 2017 (japanese release was roughly a month ago) and the game wasn't released in the West until later in September, that's still a pretty good number for BR1 and it sounds more like Koei Tecmo may have overestimated its initial forecast by a lot. It's not like it was a high-budget game by any means.

That said, once again that doesn't excuse any attempt of censorship against the japanese release of the sequel through pressure of "western standards". Not that it's gonna change your mind since it's a japanese media you personally despise and I consider the debate done with you anyway

 

[Marissa Moira]

Gotta agree with these posts from that neogaf thread. Considering the thread is from May 2017 (japanese release was roughly a month ago) and the game wasn't released in the West until later in September, that's still a pretty good number for BR1 and it sounds more like Koei Tecmo may have overestimated its initial forecast by a lot. It's not like it was a high-budget game by any means.

That said, once again that doesn't excuse any attempt of censorship against the japanese release of the sequel through pressure of "western standards". Not that it's gonna change your mind since it's a japanese media you personally despise and I consider the debate done with you anyway

If you played the game, the reason more than likely is because the game is pretty cringey. Now I've played through stuff like Summer Lesson and Blue Reflection is even worse than that.

I mean the whole thing is pretty much this

And it's really from start to finish. Like you can't even take it as Satire from the Magical Girl genre. They've got a battle system in there that could really shine if they did more work on it, but the game was clearly not cheap to make. They blew a ton of cash on mocap because it's used everywhere. Mocap requires cleanup artists and entire crews which greatly adds to the expense. They went heavily into the aesthetics of the game and the gameplay aspect really comes off as neglected, because it wasn't given the same amount of care.

So if someone over at KT is tard wrangling the developers it's probably going to lead to a better game if they get their priorities straight. It didn't do well in the states either because the limited printing was entirely for the west. The japanese copy is worlds cheaper.

 

[Jonah Hill poster]

Dude Japan censors violence from western works all the fucking time due to Japanese losing their shit over a tiny amount of blood and gore, the situation isn't unique nor is it one sided. They too have exceptional cultural sensibilities. Blue Reflection bombed in japan so they're turning to the west in the hopes it saves the IP.

The fact is by not caring about the quality of the game itself, you're missing the sole reason why the situation is happening in the first place. The Japanese flag isn't some seal of higher quality, these people made a bad game and a bad anime series and are hoping people outside of japan who are not familiar with the negative reputation will buy the game.

Blue Reflection has the same amount of cringe as Life is Strange. The whole thing was made by tone deaf people.

It also isn't censorship since the original was released unaltered. They're saying "hey nobody liked the original game and found the character interactions stupid or clearly run by an agenda, stop wasting resources on a gay story and put resources into the gameplay systems"

This has zero to do with Sony either since NISA is publishing it in the west. This is Koei Techmo saying to the development team that the game was not palatable the world over and in order to get the sequel you need to stop putting the focus on Japanese schoolgirls going "UwU senpai my womanly instincts are coming into full bloom UwU Let me sniff your hair UwU" and make an actual fucking game and not some fetish fueled Neil Breen simulator.. After Gust having success with bringing the Atelier series out of the gutter, they're more than likely wanting to build up more series so it can be as successful as Ryza.

Like really if you want stuff like that to take priority over Gameplay, you can get H games. Because flat out porn never gets sold on consoles.

These posts almost read like a Catch-22 from Marissa. Why should Japan tiptoe and lose their individuality to “Western sensibilities“ when they’re supposed to be catering to their audience by making games for them? And why do you then pivot to “H games” and “uWu Senpai“ while ignoring the ideas of subtle censorship creeping in to appease global audiences?

This is just a huge contradiction.

 

[Marissa Moira]

These posts almost read like a Catch-22 from Marissa. Why should Japan tiptoe and lose their individuality to “Western sensibilities“ when they’re supposed to be catering to their audience by making games for them? And why do you then pivot to “H games” and “uWu Senpai“ while ignoring the ideas of subtle censorship creeping in to appease global audiences?

This is just a huge contradiction.

Well first off, one post Is broad/generalized and the other is specific about Koei itself.

Stuff like Nioh is largely reliant on western markets and the recent Atelier only did as well as it did due to the western markets.

I mean I guess you could take Koei's preference for the west as a trend since many other developers have done so as well. I mean in that instance then yes they would be catering towards their audience by not including stuff they don't like and pivoting more towards their taste.

It's not a full on reimaging like in the days of Cardcaptor Sakura where they tried to refocus and already made piece of media around an entirely different trend. But for the sequel it's sounding like it's less focused on the overall story aspect and they're wanting to but more focus on the RPG gameplay which will have broader appeal. Essentially the sequel is a tonal shift.

If I'm understanding your post correctly, I mean Koei has had a larger focus on western markets for awhile now. None of any of the main gameplay elements in Blue Reflection are really all that alien, it's just it was handled very poorly. Especially since you have Persona 5 and Legend of Heroes which do pretty much the same thing with RPG combat and a heavy focus around a school setting.

 

[BrokenWokenBespoken]

First of all Moira please learn to shut the fuck up. You are being dogpiled and nothing you say is convincing people you are even barely convincing.

Anyways back on the stuff involving blue reflection is as someone who have at learned to accept wokeshit in media an incurable tumor. I wouldn't fault Mel on that since Blue Reflection is like those niche Yuri series that historically relied on lesbophiliac male fans making skeevy shots up the skirts or the purity of the game which also reinforced negative sexual stereotypes about lesbians that doesn't click with someone from say The Gamer's author of the article.

 

[Marissa Moira]

First of all Moira please learn to shut the fuck up. You are being dogpiled and nothing you say is convincing people you are even barely convincing.

Anyways back on the stuff involving blue reflection is as someone who have at learned to accept wokeshit in media an incurable tumor. I wouldn't fault Mel on that since Blue Reflection is like those niche Yuri series that historically relied on lesbophiliac male fans making skeevy shots up the skirts of the skirt or the purity of the game which also reinforced negative sexual stereotypes about lesbians that doesn't click with someone from say The Gamer's author of the article.

Blue Reflection's yuri scenes were closer to an after thought and most of the stuff is poorly done and redundant interactions with numerous side characters. The game received a direct translation which means everything reads stilted from the get go, it never got the script localized so if you're reading it in english it's not going to come off as sincere hence why I said it was cringy. The main aspect of the game is to go into your classmate's minds and resolve their negative feelings. I wasn't joking about the Life is Strange comparison either. The character's whole thing is that she's afflicted with anime sickness bullshit unable to make her dance and she calls herself a cripple, but she moves perfectly fine throughout the whole game which means the whole establishing thing for the conflict is dropped right at the start. It's something that was created when the plot required it, but then drops it when it's no longer covenant.

Mostly everything happens via side quests in between dungeons and the side quests are tedious as all hell. I mean if you're playing it for yuri fan service you're going to have to slog through a whole boatload of shit.

If you want Yuri you're honestly better off playing something made specifically for that, because if you want it it's shackled to bad quest design. I mean you can feel free to play it but it's pretty bad. If they're toning down the fan service bullshit and are bothering to fix the main core issues of the game for the sequel it could probably turn out better than the original game. The fan service was something that even if removed entirely form the original would not help the larger problems of the game.

If the gold standard for actual porn games is Evenicle, this game fails to even live up to that. The battle system can draw things out more than needed due to how it's structured, and again the game is littered with badly done side quests that not well done. Evenicle didn't even have side quests that acted as pointless filler but Blue Reflection is really weighed down by them.

So if you're wanting girl on girl stuff you can really find better stuff elsewhere and if you're wanting an actual RPG you can find it elsewhere as well.

 

[Articles and Nudes]

Moira please learn to shut the fuck up.

 

[Cincinnatus]

Blue Reflection's yuri scenes were closer to an after thought and most of the stuff is poorly done and redundant interactions with numerous side characters. The game received a direct translation which means everything reads stilted from the get go, it never got the script localized so if you're reading it in english it's not going to come off as sincere hence why I said it was cringy. The main aspect of the game is to go into your classmate's minds and resolve their negative feelings. I wasn't joking about the Life is Strange comparison either. The character's whole thing is that she's afflicted with anime sickness bullshit unable to make her dance and she calls herself a cripple, but she moves perfectly fine throughout the whole game which means the whole establishing thing for the conflict is dropped right at the start. It's something that was created when the plot required it, but then drops it when it's no longer covenant.

Mostly everything happens via side quests in between dungeons and the side quests are tedious as all hell. I mean if you're playing it for yuri fan service you're going to have to slog through a whole boatload of shit.

If you want Yuri you're honestly better off playing something made specifically for that, because if you want it it's shackled to bad quest design. I mean you can feel free to play it but it's pretty bad. If they're toning down the fan service bullshit and are bothering to fix the main core issues of the game for the sequel it could probably turn out better than the original game. The fan service was something that even if removed entirely form the original would not help the larger problems of the game.

If the gold standard for actual porn games is Evenicle, this game fails to even live up to that. The battle system can draw things out more than needed due to how it's structured, and again the game is littered with badly done side quests that not well done. Evenicle didn't even have side quests that acted as pointless filler but Blue Reflection is really weighed down by them.

So if you're wanting girl on girl stuff you can really find better stuff elsewhere and if you're wanting an actual RPG you can find it elsewhere as well.

Why is everything so sterile and sexless nowadays? I miss back when casual fanservice was still a thing.

 

[Jonah Hill poster]

Why is everything so sterile and sexless nowadays? I miss back when casual fanservice was still a thing.View attachment 2642892

It also doesn’t help that out of all of things to complain about Mass Effect, one of them was toning down the female character’s butt.

As if that was the only problem Mass Effect had.

 

[Jonah Hill poster]

Apologies for double posting (since I was going to put this in the Video Game Chat Thread), but it’s been brought to my attention yesterday that the famous graphic artist Hiroshi ‘Mr Dotman’ Ono who created the famous pixel art for the likes of well-known Namco games like Galaga, Pac-Man and Dig-Dug, has unfortunately passed away at the age of 64.

As someone that played those three games growing up in both arcades and consoles like the N64 alike, this guy was really responsible for getting me into arcade gaming at an early age. Thank this man for his incredible creativity at making something as unique as pixel art look groundbreaking in retrospect.

 

[Marissa Moira]

Why is everything so sterile and sexless nowadays? I miss back when casual fanservice was still a thing.View attachment 2642892

Mass Effect had pretty bad and awkward romance scenes, so much so that Saint's Row 4 parodied them.

It's just something that tends to get tossed by the wayside because not a whole lot of people are really in the market for it. It's not their primary reason for people buying games. Like Compile Heart games are known for their fan service but it's also a known fact the vast majority of the stuff they put out are just bad games.

If people want tits and ass other mediums are better at delivering it. Games tend to be much more of a time investment and fan service isn't something that can sustain a game for 30+ hours. Hell the later Mass Effect and Dragon Age games were bad and one of the factors was the vocal fans didn't want an RPG they wanted a CYOA romance.

 

[SiccDicc]

View attachment 2643254

Apologies for double posting (since I was going to put this in the Video Game Chat Thread), but it’s been brought to my attention yesterday that the famous graphic artist Hiroshi ‘Mr Dotman’ Ono who created the famous pixel art for the likes of well-known Nampo games like Galaga, Pac-Man and Dig-Dug, has unfortunately passed away at the age of 64.

As someone that played those three games growing up in both arcades and consoles like the N64 alike, this guy was really responsible for getting me into arcade gaming at an early age. Thank this man for his incredible creativity at making something as unique as pixel art look groundbreaking in retrospect.

This isn't culture war. This is a memoriam.

Although, that's a decent thread you can start. In Memoriam.

 

[Jonah Hill poster]

This isn't culture war. This is a memoriam.

Although, that's a decent thread you can start. In Memoriam.

True, but the man who created pixel art for PAC-Man technically embodies Culture as a whole. I still remember the days before the Internet being as huge now when people used to joke about how the world will view Ms. Pac-Man from a gender role standpoint.