Culture Wars General - KiA Diet Coke Edition

[Dom Cruise]

was going to post this in the now deleted recent thread about Gamergate.

When are just going to admit that the push for "diversity" in gaming... made video games worse? Gaming was better when no one gave a fuck what you were when making games, they cared about your talent, nobody gave a shit that John Romero was part Hispanic, they cared that he made DOOM.

Gamers knew what the era of forced diversity was going to lead to and were in the right to try to stop it and offer some pushback, do these fucks really think they deserved to seize control of an entire business, hobby, subculture and medium without a fight?

 

[The Lawgiver]

Pacs have no visible sexual dimorphism and have to rely on exterior clothing in order to tell the sexes apart.
View attachment 2644663

the female pacmen have eyelashes and presumably pac-pusspuss considering pac man has kids. Is there a canonical name for what the fuck the pacmen are, or is this a Toad situation where the race is the same name as like the main one guy.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

It's not that there's nothing inherently wrong with fanservice, the problem is when it becomes the primary point of the game and they forget to make an actual game.

Like Tales of Arise has fan service, but they put an actual game behind it and gave it substance.

There is nothing wrong with fanservice being the primary point of a game, just like there is nothing wrong with fanservice being the primary point of a movie, book, or painting.

 

[BananaSplit]

I'm not posting proof in an open forum about a game platform that is the least secure in terms of online infrastructure and customer data. Why the fuck would I then do the same on reddit and 4chan which can just be easily tracked? You make way too many assumptions

You'll need to get a mod or something if you want to pry that info from my hands because I'm not giving that stuff willingly in a public space. Because even if I was to show evidence I get the feeling that somehow still wouldn't be enough that I've got over 50+ switch games and I'm giving my opinion of these games from a personal standpoint.

And yes visual novels don't take so fucking long to get through. They're text boxes you click through. Most can be done in a little over a half hour, they're not heavy reading at all.

You're the one who always brought up how much games you've "played" and "bought" after you're called out of your countless dumb comments on topics you're participating, as if to claim you're a higher authority and make yourself look unquestionable. Then you have the audacity to backpedal when you get asked for proofs and cry victimhood how your privacy is "at risk" (despite how easy it is to get around the hidden data issue you're presumably worrying about). You made your bed, now lie on it, you dishonest attention-whore.

And text adventure games are usually long, 30 minutes sounds more like your personal average attention span

 

[Marissa Moira]

You're the one who always brought up how much games you've "played" and "bought" after you're called out of your countless dumb comments on topics you're participating, as if to claim you're a higher authority and make yourself look unquestionable. Then you have the audacity to backpedal when you get asked for proofs and cry victimhood how your privacy is "at risk" (despite how easy it is to get around the hidden data issue you're presumably worrying about). You made your bed, now lie on it, you dishonest attention-whore.

And text adventure games are usually long, 30 minutes sounds more like your personal average attention span

Proofs have been posted just not publicly.

There is nothing wrong with fanservice being the primary point of a game, just like there is nothing wrong with fanservice being the primary point of a movie, book, or painting.

For games yes there is, because they tend to miss the primary point of the medium which would be interactivity. There's a ton of H games which are just clicking through boxes which is no different than some visual novels like Nekopara. You have have the Senran games which lack any type of real depth and have been pretty much just coasting on minimal improvements since the vita. Jet Girls I've mentioned is that the enemy racers don't function properly and can be beaten with the autopilot. Fan service doesn't save a game from mechanical shortcomings and failures. The Neptunia games have really done nothing to improve their quality and you're now dealing with a series that has more installments than most game series that have existed since the 80's.

Fan service games are basically just a skin over a basic game structure for most things. Like quite a few of them are basic first person dungeon crawlers and they don't do much to refine or switch up the formula.

 

[Wormy]

Gamers knew what the era of forced diversity was going to lead to and were in the right to try to stop it and offer some pushback, do these fucks really think they deserved to seize control of an entire business, hobby, subculture and medium without a fight?

I'd like to ask the same people claiming to fight for me in the hobby to save me from teh ebil ess jay dubyas the same thing? The same people who've brought about this anti-"Freakshit" garbage into my hobby....

Murder House has child murder but the game's done in deliberately trashy ps1 graphics and is not even that gory.

Bu...bu...but the right wing told me that Japan is all about freedom of expression and never censors "offensive" things, hence why they're more liberated and better than all the cucked western developers! I's so confused!!!!

It doesn't change the point that japanese creative works shouldn't be compromised by whatever western faux-prudism due of cultural differences, regardless of how much of a contrarian you want to be Marissa Moira. Doesn't matter if the creative work is popular or not either.

So why do western developers have to do it to the japanese's strange prudism?

 

[Marissa Moira]

Bu...bu...but the right wing told me that Japan is all about freedom of expression and never censors "offensive" things, hence why they're more liberated and better than all the cucked western developers! I's so confused!!!!

They're honestly roughly the same in my experience, it just depends what your preferences are.

 

[Jack Awful]

was going to post this in the now deleted recent thread about Gamergate.

When are just going to admit that the push for "diversity" in gaming... made video games worse? Gaming was better when no one gave a fuck what you were when making games, they cared about your talent, nobody gave a shit that John Romero was part Hispanic, they cared that he made DOOM.

Gamers knew what the era of forced diversity was going to lead to and were in the right to try to stop it and offer some pushback, do these fucks really think they deserved to seize control of an entire business, hobby, subculture and medium without a fight?

Nobody complains about diversity if it's done well and not used by the developers as a selling point.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

For games yes there is, because they tend to miss the primary point of the medium which would be interactivity. There's a ton of H games which are just clicking through boxes which is no different than some visual novels like Nekopara. You have have the Senran games which lack any type of real depth and have been pretty much just coasting on minimal improvements since the vita. Jet Girls I've mentioned is that the enemy racers don't function properly and can be beaten with the autopilot. Fan service doesn't save a game from mechanical shortcomings and failures. The Neptunia games have really done nothing to improve their quality and you're now dealing with a series that has more installments than most game series that have existed since the 80's.

Why does a video game necessarily need to prioritize "interactivity?" That's like saying silent films are somehow missing the point because they stop the action and bring up text cards or comic books are bad because these funny cartoons are getting in the way of reading. Blending mediums has been a thing for thousands of years. If it's interactive, it's a video game (except maybe visual novels where you only click a box, that's just a sort of book).

Fan service games are basically just a skin over a basic game structure for most things. Like quite a few of them are basic first person dungeon crawlers and they don't do much to refine or switch up the formula.

Well yeah, that's why you're playing it for the fanservice, it's literally the appeal of the game. You're not there to play a deep experience, you're there to play something simple while you look at tits or lolis or whatever. The only valid point you have is that some of these games can be very buggy.

 

[Marissa Moira]

Why does a video game necessarily need to prioritize "interactivity?" That's like saying silent films are somehow missing the point because they stop the action and bring up text cards or comic books are bad because these funny cartoons are getting in the way of reading. Blending mediums has been a thing for thousands of years. If it's interactive, it's a video game (except maybe visual novels where you only click a box, that's just a sort of book).

That's literally the whole point of games is interactivity. You're comparing passive forms of media to one that's interactive.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

That's literally the whole point of games is interactivity. You're comparing passive forms of media to one that's interactive.

And the whole point of movies is watching things act on screen through the director's cinematography, but they sure had a lot of title cards and some guy noodling on a piano behind the screen in the first 30 years of film. Interactivity is to video games what text is to literature, it's not some inherently special thing that makes "Hyper Oppai Adventure Isekai V" or whatever automatically bad because it's just a reskinned version of some utterly generic but functional JRPG. Someone out there doesn't give a fuck and wants to see some jiggling tits when they kill slimes for the 500th time today to make numbers go up because it's more fun to them than reading a doujin or watching hentai.

 

[BananaSplit]

So why do western developers have to do it to the japanese's strange prudism?

I said, in the next post just below of the one you've quoted, that neither practice is acceptable but one is much more despicable than the other. The japs aren't forcing western devs to change things right to the source, the censorship of western games happen in japanese localizations just as censorship of japanese games used to mainly happen in western localizations. Whereas SIE California has actually been directly meddling with japanese game development behind the public scenes for a while, with only a few devs coming out of the wood to explain the situation like the dude from the .light team.

It's already hard enough for japanese developers to deal with the japanese rating board CERO, Sony pulling those double-standard regulations is just putting an additional brake on japanese game creativity and making said devs life miserable on purpose, all while western game development remains untouched.

If it's interactive, it's a video game (except maybe visual novels where you only click a box, that's just a sort of book).

Even text adventure games (what they're usually called over there in nipponland) are still games because they have choice prompts, various routes/endings, and can sometimes offer additional gameplay elements such as turn-based strategic battles in Utawarerumono, investigations and courtrooms in Ace Attorney, Lain's art and inference logic in Shin Hayarigami (see pics below), romance simulation in Amagami or Tokimeki Memorial, "dungeon" exploration in Death Mark, etc.

The main point however is that people consume media that they find enjoyable, it's as simple as that. Autistically screeching about genre purity, the required amount of interactivity or whatever is pointless. Games are also allowed to fill their own niches just like they can be flawed too, promoting censorship against those as some kind of greater good is a scumbag shit to do (regardless it's a shitpost or not).

 

[Judge Dredd]

I'd like to ask the same people claiming to fight for me in the hobby to save me from teh ebil ess jay dubyas the same thing? The same people who've brought about this anti-"Freakshit" garbage into my hobby....

It depends on who is doing the fighting and why.

Hard to think it's been more than a decade since this culture war shit began, but for those that don't remember, back in the pre-GamerGate days radical feminists (SJWs) and the religious/traditional right (tradcons) were on the same team. They both wanted sex and violence removed from games. Their reasons differed, but their goals were the same.

Somewhere along the way, the tradcons sided with those that wanted freedom of speech.

Now the SJWs are losing, the tradcons are moving into position to fire up their old rhetoric. "Freakshit", "coomer", and "degenerate" are the new buzzwords, but the goal is the same. Browbeat devs who make things they don't approve of.

 

[Kurtis Trent]

so what do you guys think of fatal frame 5 controversy?
new:

old:

 

[SiccDicc]

It depends on who is doing the fighting and why.

Hard to think it's been more than a decade since this culture war shit began, but for those that don't remember, back in the pre-GamerGate days radical feminists (SJWs) and the religious/traditional right (tradcons) were on the same team. They both wanted sex and violence removed from games. Their reasons differed, but their goals were the same.

Somewhere along the way, the tradcons sided with those that wanted freedom of speech.

Now the SJWs are losing, the tradcons are moving into position to fire up their old rhetoric. "Freakshit", "coomer", and "degenerate" are the new buzzwords, but the goal is the same. Browbeat devs who make things they don't approve of.

Honestly, I preferred the tradcons to the SJWs to begin with. I'm not getting lectured by them which is funny and they're doing it to save my soul rather than spare someone's feelings. These two things make them much less insufferable in my eyes.

And who knows? Maybe game devs will spite them once more and we get back to the 90's and early 00's.

 

[Judge Dredd]

It also helped that the gaming press and developers were unified against the tradcons. It's not like now where the press were on their side and devs bend the knee. No one was pretending Jack Thompson was an avid gamer who had been playing since he was a child, and no one was saying that criticising Christian games was harassment.

Maybe game devs will spite them once more and we get back to the 90's and early 00's.

Devs might, but there's already a subset of gamers who complain about anime games, furries, and basically anything that isn't hyper masculine men espousing tradcon values.

 

[Jack Awful]

It depends on who is doing the fighting and why.

Hard to think it's been more than a decade since this culture war shit began, but for those that don't remember, back in the pre-GamerGate days radical feminists (SJWs) and the religious/traditional right (tradcons) were on the same team. They both wanted sex and violence removed from games. Their reasons differed, but their goals were the same.

Somewhere along the way, the tradcons sided with those that wanted freedom of speech.

Now the SJWs are losing, the tradcons are moving into position to fire up their old rhetoric. "Freakshit", "coomer", and "degenerate" are the new buzzwords, but the goal is the same. Browbeat devs who make things they don't approve of.

The tradcons were "free speech" because they saw an opening to gain ground against the increasingly censorious left, who were previously also free speech until they had enough power to overtake the right.

Both sides will inevitably attempt censorship because they both believe that forcing their ideals on society will help improve it. Different sides of the same coin.

 

[Marissa Moira]

Even text adventure games (what they're usually called over there in nipponland) are still games because they have choice prompts, various routes/endings, and can sometimes offer additional gameplay elements such as turn-based strategic battles in Utawarerumono, investigations and courtrooms in Ace Attorney, Lain's art and inference logic in Shin Hayarigami (see pics below), romance simulation in Amagami or Tokimeki Memorial, "dungeon" exploration in Death Mark, etc.

The main point however is that people consume media that they find enjoyable, it's as simple as that. Autistically screeching about genre purity, the required amount of interactivity or whatever is pointless. Games are also allowed to fill their own niches just like they can be flawed too, promoting censorship against those as some kind of greater good is a scumbag shit to do (regardless it's a shitpost or not).

Nope text adventures are an Entirely Different Thing than what you're saying

This is a Text Adventure

This is not

And no people consuming media they enjoy isn't simple as that. The entire fucking point of games is interactivity it is the one lone section of media that uses interactivity while the others do not. And people fucking not getting the fucking point of the new medium has happened before and it happened with film itself. Yes many of the early sound movies were absolute fucking garbage.

You see once sound was introduced people then decided to make movies about plays and other shit like that. And they were all shot with a single stagnant shot for the film's length, there were also movies with endless talking for hours on end with no real story because you were supposed to FEEL wrapped up in some bullshit conversation that had none of the hallmarks of proper script writing. So stuff lacked what made film unique and just injected a ton of stuff instead of what came prior to it like the Vaudeville or stage plays, they used zero of the techniques or benefits of filmmaking like multiple camera angles, framing, and other things related to cinematography. They kept trying to force the old shit onto the new shit and all they produced was garbage.

In fact the movies were so bad that nobody bothered to preserve them, most wound up getting lost to time. Many movies of this era did, and there were only restoration efforts for films made by directors who wound up making good movies.

 

[Wormy]

Somewhere along the way, the tradcons sided with those that wanted freedom of speech.

They didn't. They saw themselves becoming irrelevant, and decided to try a "How do you do, fellow gamers?" act to stay relevant. It makes me pull my hair out when I realize that they did it AND IT WORKED, even when back in their home bases they still called gaming the work of The Devil just like it was 1984 all over again. So many gamers forgot who it was told parents to burn their kid's D&D books and acted like those people were suddenly kindred spirits.

Honestly, I preferred the tradcons to the SJWs to begin with. I'm not getting lectured by them which is funny and they're doing it to save my soul rather than spare someone's feelings. These two things make them much less insufferable in my eyes.

Not me. When our after school gaming group back in 1990 was forced to disband, it wasn't on account of colored hair college nitwits screaming about microagressions, it was by conservative Christians thinking we were summoning demons. For all their stupidity, the only people I heard wanting to ban games outright were the right wingers who now say they're totes down with gaming, dude.

These not our allies.

 

[Marissa Moira]

They didn't. They saw themselves becoming irrelevant, and decided to try a "How do you do, fellow gamers?" act to stay relevant. It makes me pull my hair out when I realize that they did it AND IT WORKED, even when back in their home bases they still called gaming the work of The Devil just like it was 1984 all over again. So many gamers forgot who it was told parents to burn their kid's D&D books and acted like those people were suddenly kindred spirits.


Not me. When our after school gaming group back in 1990 was forced to disband, it wasn't on account of colored hair college nitwits screaming about microagressions, it was by conservative Christians thinking we were summoning demons. For all their stupidity, the only people I heard wanting to ban games outright were the right wingers who now say they're totes down with gaming, dude.

These not our allies.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZzNNTrh7rC0

Except, The satanic panic only became a thing when the kid killed himself and the parents didn't want to reveal that he was gay.

They even had a made for TV movie about it that was fueled by sensationalism.

Both the left and the right had a hand in the satanic panic.