Culture Wars General - KiA Diet Coke Edition

[Marissa Moira]

1) The PS1 era was 20-25 years ago. That doesn't account for the last 20 years, even including the PS2 era.

2) Pokemon is one RPG. That is not all rpgs. That does not mean that all rpgs do better in the West. You fucking fucktard.

Well here's another article from when persona 5 royal launched.

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2021/06/atlus_stresses_importance_of_overseas_sales_as_persona_5_royal_tops_1_8_million_copies#:~:text=The%20report%20states%20that%20Persona,stolen%20a%20lot%20of%20hearts.

You've got the overwhelming majority of large RPG publishers targeting areas outside of Japan. Like Atlus, Capcom, Square Enix etc..

During the PS2 era the Japanese console market was already shrinking so developers began to ramp up their global approach there. Final Fantasy 10 further spread the series to a larger audience as did 10-2 and 12 did. The RPG genre did very well under the PS2 and further spread the genre's influence globally. The US got it's first new Dragon Quest localized which had not happened since 7 on the PS1 and that was the first one localized since the NES days(7 was still called Dragon Warrior, so 8 was the first official Dragon Quest release).

Then the PS3 hit and it kind of declined for a few years, then in 2009 Demon's Souls launched and did most of it's sales in western territories, as did Dark Souls, Dark Souls 2, and a whole new subgenre of RPG was birthed. Later came Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3 on the PS4.

Persona 5 was Atlus' largest selling game ever in it's whole history and it was due to it's western sales. You also had cult series like Nier take off and Nier automata did very well on the PS4 due to the western audience. Monster Hunter World did the majority of it's sales outside of Japan as well where as prior the series was almost entirely dependent on Japan.

You've got pretty much all the major franchises and publishers making majority of their headway in western markets. Some are left like Falcom but even they are hosting western centric events now and wanting to expand further in those markets. Crunchyroll has funded a full season of anime based on Legend of Heroes to act as an advertisement for the games and that's for the western market.

 

[IDanceonTrannyGraves]

Capcom doesn't make Jrpgs *any more* you fuckwit. Demons Souls was a cult hit that you had to import at first. It wasn't a smash out of the gate.

And again, you're acting like one franchise represents the entirety of the genre. Fuckwit.

Nier Automata and Monster Hunter are *barely* rpgs, if at all. You might as well call Bayonetta an rpg at that point.

I'm still waiting for sales figures that you won't provide.

Also, fuck off retard.

 

[Gravemind]

Capcom doesn't make Jrpgs you fuckwit.

Breath of Fire, Mega Man Battle Network/Star Force, Mega Man X: Command Mission, and Monster Hunter Stories would beg to differ.

Capcom doesn't make JRPGs very often, but they have made some.

 

[IDanceonTrannyGraves]

Breath of Fire, Mega Man Battle Network/Star Force, Mega Man X: Command Mission, and Monster Hunter Stories would beg to differ.

Capcom doesn't make JRPGs very often, but they have made some.

I meant anymore.

 

[BananaSplit]

One of the problems with the flawed "argument" that the sony fanboy keeps repeating over and over again (with the same very vague and dubious proofs) is that it's forgetting one important thing:

Manga and their anime adaptations are often popular around the world (France has been its biggest importer and consumer since the 70s, and according to this article mangas have currently taken hold of 50% of the french comic market), but those media are still created to be consumed by the japanese audience firstmost. Japanese authors are not going change things because there is seemingly a bigger audience outside Japan that is divided across several multiple countries. The same can be said for japanese games as a general rule as well: they can be popular outside of the home country but they were made for the japanese audience firsmost unless exactly told otherwise. There is no detailed hard data available anyway, at least for the public, that could prove one specific country generate more sales of japanese games than Japan itself in order to claim a general truth as such. Hence the reliance on claiming shipments (to retailers) in related news because the infrastructure in western countries don't seem good enough to keep track of sales like Japan does with Famitsu and Media Create (which has shipment stock represented as a colored bar alongside of the sale numbers)

To move on to the other problem of his "argument" of muh sales, it's been presented so far as an excuse for localizers to do anything they want. And likewise, to justify pressure put on creative freedom so they could meet the supposed & superfluous western value standards. That's the part that annoys me the most admittedly.

Translators should stick at only translating the works (they were put in charge) as faithfully as possible, instead of changing things for political and egoistical reasons while gloating on social media how much they hate the media and its audiences. A gesture of respect should apply for japanese media as well as for any entertainment media from other regions of the world, on an equal measure. It shouldn't be hard to understand this but yet

 

[IDanceonTrannyGraves]

One of the problems with the flawed "argument" that the sony fanboy keeps repeating over and over again (with the same very vague and dubious proofs) is that it's forgetting one important thing:

Manga and their anime adaptations are often popular around the world (France has been its biggest importer and consumer since the 70s, and according to this article mangas have currently taken hold of 50% of the french comic market), but those media are still created to be consumed by the japanese audience firstmost. Japanese authors are not going change things because there is seemingly a bigger audience outside Japan that is divided across several multiple

Japanese devs tried that in the PS3 era and they flopped hard.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole]

Four minutes, huh? It took Marissa four minutes to find the specific page that proves [woke? trans? gay badminton?]. ...in a trap/trans/boy lover manga or whatever that is. Four minutes. I would be impressed but instead I am concerned. But I am not surprised. Then there's all the visual novels that he plays and hates, add to that the intimate knowledge about this, something that he also hates. And his warning: don't go down this road and start jacking it to this stuff, you will never come back. How does he know?

The visual novel he is supposedly making will without a doubt be haram as hell. I guess boy lover manga and filthy visual novels were just necessary research.

edit:
Marissa dropping insider info

 

[Marissa Moira]

View attachment 3387418View attachment 3387417
Four minutes, huh? It took Marissa four minutes to find the specific page that proves [woke? trans? gay badminton?]. ...in a trap/trans/boy lover manga or whatever that is. Four minutes. I would be impressed but instead I am concerned. But I am not surprised. Then there's all the visual novels that he plays and hates, add to that the intimate knowledge about this, something that he also hates. And his warning: don't go down this road and start jacking it to this stuff, you will never come back. How does he know?

The visual novel he is supposedly making will without a doubt be haram as hell. I guess boy lover manga and filthy visual novels were just necessary research.

edit:
Marissa dropping insider info
View attachment 3387419

Look man you have to try everything once to really know that you hate it.

That and at a young age I was exposed to The Silmarillion, like that one episode of samurai jack where he ties weights around his legs so he can be strong enough to jump high once he removes them, literary tedium was part of my daily regiment.

One of the problems with the flawed "argument" that the sony fanboy keeps repeating over and over again (with the same very vague and dubious proofs) is that it's forgetting one important thing:

Manga and their anime adaptations are often popular around the world (France has been its biggest importer and consumer since the 70s, and according to this article mangas have currently taken hold of 50% of the french comic market), but those media are still created to be consumed by the japanese audience firstmost. Japanese authors are not going change things because there is seemingly a bigger audience outside Japan that is divided across several multiple countries. The same can be said for japanese games as a general rule as well: they can be popular outside of the home country but they were made for the japanese audience firsmost unless exactly told otherwise. There is no detailed hard data available anyway, at least for the public, that could prove one specific country generate more sales of japanese games than Japan itself in order to claim a general truth as such. Hence the reliance on claiming shipments (to retailers) in related news because the infrastructure in western countries don't seem good enough to keep track of sales like Japan does with Famitsu and Media Create (which has shipment stock represented as a colored bar alongside of the sale numbers)

To move on to the other problem of his "argument" of muh sales, it's been presented so far as an excuse for localizers to do anything they want. And likewise, to justify pressure put on creative freedom so they could meet the supposed & superfluous western value standards. That's the part that annoys me the most admittedly.

Translators should stick at only translating the works (they were put in charge) as faithfully as possible, instead of changing things for political and egoistical reasons while gloating on social media how much they hate the media and its audiences. A gesture of respect should apply for japanese media as well as for any entertainment media from other regions of the world, on an equal measure. It shouldn't be hard to understand this but yet

There's one thing you're kind of missing to why anime is popular outside Japan. They're written no differently than the majority of western stories. That's kind of why anime kind of ingrained itself in the states in the 1980's. The reason why it's liked first and foremost is because it already had a ton of similarities. There's nothing specifically Japanese to how they handle their story structure for example. It's pretty much covered in Joseph Campbells works to why.

Anime in the 1980's was pretty much an extension to scifi and fantasy and shared a load of similarities between those forms of multimedia. Take for example Akira, that had a bunch of similarities between other works of science fiction like Blade Runner.

Anime has kind of always been this international hodgepodge of influences. And When the international market has already usurped Japan in sales, that tends to draw attention to where they're going to spend most of their advertising dollars and bring genres that will sell.

During the late 2000's the industry went rhough a slump and many western publishers went bust. And companies deicded to gear a lot of anime towards selling merch during that era. So you could buy statues of the characters, it's why moe shows are still regarded as a cancer in the fandom as a whole. These shows did not do well outside of merch sales.

That and the states cutting up Japanese shows has always been a thing. Saban Entertainment built their image on localizing Japanese tokusatsu shows by having a western cast. Power Rangers became a billion dollar IP that's existed for decades because of this. It made both Saban and Bandai a lot of money. Currently the Toy License is owned by Hasbro who also owns another Japanese show that had it's oiriginal incarnation torn up and remade, that would be Transformers which was called Diaclone.

You're citing europe so the fandom and history is going to be very different on what exactly went down. But America has long been a driving force for stuff, even now with the streaming services it's been American based companies who have acquired the rights on a ton of stuff. Things have really not changed and have been pretty much functioning as they were for decades.

 

[Jonah Hill poster]

So this was just one of (not so) many noteworthy things to happen in E3 2022.

And it turns out it will be localized by this person:




It was pointed out that the localizer in question has been known to do some questionable/“social justice”-like localizations and translations to Japanese games in the past and it was noticed by users that follow her on Twitter:

Predictions on whether or not Persona ported games for the Xbox will be treated with the same respect as the creators intended it to be? Or are people getting their hopes up?

 

[IDanceonTrannyGraves]

I'm wondering if Atlus knows how much of a shitstorm there will be if there are major story changes made by an activist hack.

If Sega sees the sales flop, they may step in.

 

[Marissa Moira]

I'm wondering if Atlus knows how much of a shitstorm there will be if there are major story changes made by an activist hack.

If Sega sees the sales flop, they may step in.

They're all games that are 5 years or older.

I don't think Sega is expecting them to exactly set the charts ablaze.

Not only that but they are not in charge of the script but are assigned to user interface elements.

 

[Meaningless Username]

Persona 3 has a scene where one of the main characters almost gets tricked into having sex with a tranny. You know they're not going to let that slide in [Current Year].

 

[Marissa Moira]

Persona 3 has a scene where one of the main characters almost gets tricked into having sex with a tranny. You know they're not going to let that slide in [Current Year].

But Naoto is in persona 4 not 3.

 

[Hammr2]

But Naoto is in persona 4 not 3.

How to tell someone doesn't play the game, without telling they don't play the game.





Video, from 5:09 to 7:08

 

[BananaSplit]

They're written no differently than the majority of western stories.

There's nothing specifically Japanese to how they handle their story structure for example.

ah yes Tintin (Herge), Asterix (Goscinny & Uderzo) and Spirou (Franquin, Fournier or Tom & Janry) are drawn and written exactly just like japanese comics
or Charles Shulz, Darwyn Cooke, Carl Bark, Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, etc. if you really wanna go down the american examples

At least try to read "Understanding Comics - The Invisible Art" from Scott McCloud before always spouting ignorant claims.


And that garbage post you've written still doesn't justify the current censorship and localization hijinks done by americans towards japanese-related entertainment media. Artists and creators should never feel pressured by globohomo in order to suit its whims.

How to tell someone doesn't play the game, without telling they don't play the game.

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I looked up out of curiosity in the original japanese release and that was indeed translated faithfully at least

 

[Marissa Moira]

ah yes Tintin (Herge), Asterix (Goscinny & Uderzo) and Spirou (Franquin, Fournier or Tom & Janry) are drawn and written exactly just like japanese comics
or Charles Shulz, Darwyn Cooke, Carl Bark, Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, etc. if you really wanna go down the american examples

At least try to read "Understanding Comics - The Invisible Art" from Scott McCloud before always spouting ignorant claims.
View attachment 3390183View attachment 3390182View attachment 3390181View attachment 3390190View attachment 3390189

Scott Mcloud specifically states that Japanese comics are written so similar to western comics that that's why they became popular. He may talk differently about the styles and theories behind the drawings, but they'll write stuff that's typical hero stories at their core.

You can use Demon Slayer as a recent example. Tanjiro would most definitely falls into a typical hero archetype. Nothing he does is new at all, he's a tried and tested archetype. He could by all means be considered stereotypical. You can even go as far back as greek antiquity and you'll find hero characters written just like him.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole]

Japanese comics are written so similar to western comics that that's why they became popular.

What you mean is that japanese comics originates from western ones. But if they're both so similar, how come all japanese comics are trite endlessly recycled embarrassing garbage without an ounce of creativity in them while Iznogoud is really fun?

 

[Marissa Moira]

What you mean is that japanese comics originates from western ones. But if they're both so similar, how come all japanese comics are trite endlessly recycled embarrassing garbage without an ounce of creativity in them while Iznogoud is really fun?

I think it depends on what you read.

If we're further going by Scott McCloud's view, both America and Japan make up equal parts of Manga as a whole and influence it heavily. Manga in the end is just another word for Comics.

A big drawback for long manga series is that action and progress in the story can slow to a crawl. But on the other hand American Comics have series like Prince Valliant which has been going since 1937 on a single uninterrupted storyline.

 

[IDanceonTrannyGraves]

Who the fuck is Scott McCloud?

 

[Marissa Moira]

Who the fuck is Scott McCloud?

A Comics Guru he's written quite a few books on the subject matter.