Chris - The Legal Issues - A Prosecutor's Perspective

[RodgerDodger]

Yeah I really can't emphasize enough how much a defendant choosing to testify at trial, particularly one as lulzy and contradictory as Chris, is like Christmas morning for a prosecutor and the worst nightmare for a defense attorney.

Even by a PD’s baseline of extremely exceptional clients, Chris has got to be well past the Event Horizon. His defense attorney has got to be torn.”if I put him on the stand it sinks his case. But if I don’t put him on the stand nobody will ever believe the shit I’ve had to put up with and I’ll need therapy for years”

I'm hoping piggy Ralph gets himself arrested. I wunt to believe...

I still can’t believe he didn’t get teased and arrested at the hotel… again.

 

[Hyacinth Bucket (Bouquet)]

When Chris has had legal representation before, was he the sort who did has he was told, or the sort who ignored the lawyer and made the entire thing worse? Because the very first thing any lawyer is going to tell Chris is to, for the love of heaven, SHUT UP, and that doesn't seem to be a strong suit of his.

 

[Learned Hand]

When Chris has had legal representation before, was he the sort who did has he was told, or the sort who ignored the lawyer and made the entire thing worse? Because the very first thing any lawyer is going to tell Chris is to, for the love of heaven, SHUT UP, and that doesn't seem to be a strong suit of his.

Barb and Chris spent virtually everything Bob left them on Chris's last lawyer. The lawyer was competent, and a core strategy was hiding Chris from anything he could potentially have a hand in.

 

[Unpleasant]

Not a legal folk, but Chrises and Barbs exist by the tens of thousands

Ever lived with lover for more than 2 years? Do I give Chris a 0 or a -1 for this one?

Wouldn't Chris's age upon committing the crime be used instead of the age he was upon conviction?

For incest type offenses this would be a 0, as he was not in an ongoing supportive and romantic relationship (we hope).

The age is related to the date of release as on the average older offenders have a tendency to offend less. The age at the time of offense is not considered in this litmus. The purpose of the test is a comparative measurement indicating the "odds" to reoffend, so only their age from the point of their release onward is important. In most cases there is not that much difference in time from offense to conviction, but there are exceptions.

Even by a PD’s baseline of extremely exceptional clients, Chris has got to be well past the Event Horizon. His defense attorney has got to be torn.”if I put him on the stand it sinks his case. But if I don’t put him on the stand nobody will ever believe the shit I’ve had to put up with and I’ll need therapy for years”

Not to power level too hard, but Chris really isn't anything special for the sort of thing a PD will see. He isn't the craziest and his offense is far from the most heinous.

 

[break these cuffs]

Because the very first thing any lawyer is going to tell Chris is to, for the love of heaven, SHUT UP, and that doesn't seem to be a strong suit of his.

Reports from observers who attended the more recent civil court appearances have noted that Barb needed to shush Chris up while they were waiting. IIRC he didn't have any huge outbursts or noticeably interrupt the court, but Barb did have to perform minor tardwrangling duties. They both are worse off than they were and she may not be able to be there for him this time. Hell, could she keep him inline if she is able to be there at this point?

 

[Fapcop]

Can they actually submit Chris's other ramblings in as evidence?

Won't there be some bias against Chris because he looks disgusting? If it's a jury of boomers, they're going to be kind of hard pressed to not jump to conclusions about Chris...

The defense can submit “Mein Kampf” or “101 Ways To Trick Your Autist Son Into Fucking You And Have Him Sent Behind Bars” if they feel like it.

It’s up to the prosecution to object and the Judge to rule whether it’s relevant.

In Chris’s case the defense could make a good case that other things Chris wrote or said are very relevant, since it shows that he has a tendency to “flights of fancy” and posting fantastical, obviously not true stories and roleplaying scenarios.

The prosecutor would object since it doesn’t cost them anything and the judge would rule on it.

Judges tend to lean to the side of the defendant, especially in cases like Chris.


As for bias against Chris’s disturbing looks, they’ll obviously try to clean him up good and give him either a suit or respectable dress/gender neutral clothes. (Depending on how hard they’ll push the “poor wittle trans woman” angle.

Either way you wouldn’t get your usual disheveled, disgusting looking Chris.

 

[Mason Verger]

They both are worse off than they were and she may not be able to be there for him this time. Hell, could she keep him inline if she is able to be there at this point?

I can’t imagine they’ll let the victim babysit her rapist in court.

 

[Thomas Talus]

Can they actually submit Chris's other ramblings in as evidence?

Won't there be some bias against Chris because he looks disgusting? If it's a jury of boomers, they're going to be kind of hard pressed to not jump to conclusions about Chris...

It'll depend on the probative value of the ramblings v. the prejudicial effect of Chris being Chris.

 

[break these cuffs]

I can’t imagine they’ll let the victim babysit her rapist in court.

They gotta get rape/sexual assault charges brought first. I believe Barb will be as uncooperative with authorities as she is physically and mentally able to.

 

[Fapcop]

In a criminal trial (again, if it comes to a trial) the rules of evidence work in the favor of the defendant when it comes to introducing specific instances of past behavior, or bringing in any kind of character or example evidence where a specific character trait is not at issue.

However, and this is why you absolutely do not, under any circumstances want Chris on the stand: The defense can open a door by calling into question character or past acts. And once that door is open, the prosecution can drive a truck through it. There is no possible way a rambling TRUE AND HONEST person like Chris could ever be controlled on the stand or possibly stay on topic or query without blowing shrapnel all over his own evidentiary defenses.

I tend to avoid exposing my clients to the trial process in general at all costs. I do not want their emotions read, I do not want the chance for an outburst, I do not want them on the stand, for any reason. I am an ardent believer in the concept of blowback -- the unforeseen and unintended consequences of a specific action -- and I steer well clear of anything and anyone in court I do not exert strong control over if I can.

If anyone takes away anything from my postings in this thread: remember trials are very rare compared to the volume of cases overall. Most charges end up dropped or with a plea deal accepted. Cases that go to trial are usually because the prosecutor is being cocky/dumb and the defense calls them, or as an absolute last resort.

The longer you occupy yourself in law, the more you come to loathe the kangaroo court that is the jury. It is better to negotiate with a prosecutor than 12...."peers".

It’s always a gamble for the defence. Some jurymenbers will see the fact that a defendant doesn’t testifies as a sign of guilt, despite what the judge says.

There’s a reason why some psychologists specialize in legal consulting/jury selection, etc.

As for Chris, I really would have no idea exactly how much Public Defenders are paid in Virginia. But if you’re defending someone like Chris, it would be beneficial to “stress test him” and see how he’d do on a pretend witness stand.

Then again, one look at Chris and his IQ, and even the most overworked PD would realize that putting him on the stand might not be a good idea, seeing as Wiley Coyote would be able to outsmart him on the stand and make him dig his own legal grave.

I also have a lingering suspicion that Chris’s stress sighs, whiny nasally voice and inability to control his irritation would hardly make a great impression on jurors.

 

[Learned Hand]

It’s always a gamble for the defence. Some jurymenbers will see the fact that a defendant doesn’t testifies as a sign of guilt, despite what the judge says.

There’s a reason why some psychologists specialize in legal consulting/jury selection, etc.

As for Chris, I really would have no idea exactly how much Public Defenders are paid in Virginia. But if you’re defending someone like Chris, it would be beneficial to “stress test him” and see how he’d do on a pretend witness stand.

Then again, one look at Chris and his IQ, and even the most overworked PD would realize that putting him on the stand might not be a good idea, seeing as Wiley Coyote would be able to outsmart him on the stand and make him dig his own legal grave.

I also have a lingering suspicion that Chris’s stress sighs, whiny nasally voice and inability to control his irritation would hardly make a great impression on jurors.

This is all true. I am not sure how long you've been following Chris, but I made my statements above because he's not the kind of person you want on the stand, regardless. His ability to overshare, tangent, and get angry and combative while lurching from one heinous act to another are the stuff of legend.

 

[AnOminous]

Just ask any homosexual, it’s just not something they don’t particularly like to discuss with outsiders because of Current Year and the old association of gay men with pedophiles.

Yeah but watch any gay-themed media and it's chock full of twinks.

 

[Mason Verger]

They gotta get rape/sexual assault charges brought first. I believe Barb will be as uncooperative with authorities as she is physically and mentally able to.

Yeah, but this isn’t your common adult on adult rape case. It’s more like a child and adult rapist. The think the state attorney is gonna run the ball in on this one with very little consideration towards barbs wishes, for this exact reason. Their preexisting relationship and the power dynamics involved between them.

Hell I doubt she’ll even be allowed in the courtroom for her own health risks(remember, courts aren’t running like they used to under covid rules)

 

[Fapcop]

When Chris has had legal representation before, was he the sort who did has he was told, or the sort who ignored the lawyer and made the entire thing worse? Because the very first thing any lawyer is going to tell Chris is to, for the love of heaven, SHUT UP, and that doesn't seem to be a strong suit of his.

Look up the reports from his trial. He’d (very) begrudgingly do as he was told, acted like a bratty kid, and couldn’t control his outbursts.

Of course, there’s always the possibility that Chris has already dug his own grave already and a star defense team couldn’t help him.

I’m picturing his Public Defender getting held up in court, going to meet his client, entering the interview room and seeing Chris munching away at a cheeseburger surrounded by smiling detectives.

“Hello mister lawyer! It’s ah.. allr-.. everything is fine! I told these poli... detectives the whole and honest truth so help me godjesus!”

 

[AnOminous]

I’m picturing his Public Defender getting held up in court, going to meet his client, entering the interview room and seeing Chris munching away at a cheeseburger surrounded by smiling detectives.

He'd be the retard in this story.

Man who confessed in exchange for chicken dinner pleads guilty to murders

A Richmond man who agreed to confess to a double killing as soon as police brought him a chicken dinner now faces from 40 years to life in prison for

richmond.com

 

[Mason Verger]

I’m picturing his Public Defender getting held up in court, going to meet his client, entering the interview room and seeing Chris munching away at a cheeseburger surrounded by smiling detectives.

Dude, firstly, hilarious. Secondly it’s waaaaay more likely that it went down this way than it is that Chris wisely lawyered up and kept his mouth shut. That would go against everything we know about Chris. He loves to be interviewed. He sang like a fucking bird. The only upside for him is he likely said sooo much extra bullshit, that they have to carve off the fantasy from reality in his statements. Shit, just trying to establish who’s real and who’s a cartoon in Chris’s stories is a chore.

 

[Fapcop]

They gotta get rape/sexual assault charges brought first. I believe Barb will be as uncooperative with authorities as she is physically and mentally able to.

It really needs to be said that everything really depends on Barb, Barb’s mental state and of course physical evidence.

While there have been a lot of good and accurate replies, they can all turn out to be completely wrong depending on Barb’s condition and other aspects of the case.

This is like predicting a Presidential election in April. Far too soon to say anything with certainty.

As it stands:

Chris could be sent away for ten years.
Chris could get a slap on the wrist.
Chris could plea deal it out.
Chris could be found not guilty.
Charges could be dropped.

This is all true. I am not sure how long you've been following Chris, but I made my statements above because he's not the kind of person you want on the stand, regardless. His ability to overshare, tangent, and get angry and combative while lurching from one heinous act to another are the stuff of legend.

Oh I’ve been following for quite a while. Absolutely agree on Chris on the stand. Fuck, those stress-sighs alone might annoy the deciding vote on the jury enough to go for guilty, lol!

His internet ramblings in general should prove quite useful to his defense though.

Dude, firstly, hilarious. Secondly it’s waaaaay more likely that it went down this way than it is that Chris wisely lawyered up and kept his mouth shut. That would go against everything we know about Chris. He loves to be interviewed. He sang like a fucking bird. The only upside for him is he likely said sooo much extra bullshit, that they have to carve off the fantasy from reality in his statements. Shit, just trying to establish who’s real and who’s a cartoon in Chris’s stories is a chore.

Yup. Chris hates to be “misunderstood”, and since he’s always the hero in his own story (and always right!) it would be important for Chris to make those nice detectives (who even asked him how he is and if he needs anything!) understand that he’s the good guy and didn’t do anything bad!

He’d probably explain in extensive detail how he, in a loving and gently manner tied Barb up like a horse, and how he knew she enjoyed it because she sighed at one point. And he can’t remember her reaction when he suggested it. But she was keen on the idea. He could tell by her reaction!

Detectives watching the video feeds would alternate between high fiving each other and shake their heads in disgust.

 

[AnOminous]

As it stands:

Chris could be sent away for ten years.
Chris could get a slap on the wrist.
Chris could plea deal it out.
Chris could be found not guilty.
Charges could be dropped.

Pretty much this. None of us know.

 

[Mason Verger]

Yup. Chris hates to be “misunderstood”, and since he’s always the hero in his own story (and always right!) it would be important for Chris to make those nice detectives (who even asked him how he is and if he needs anything!) understand that he’s the good guy and didn’t do anything bad!

He’d probably explain in extensive detail how he, in a loving and gently manner tied Barb up like a horse, and how he knew she enjoyed it because she sighed at one point. And he can’t remember her reaction when he suggested it. But she was keen on the idea. He could tell by her reaction!

Detectives watching the video feeds would alternate between high fiving each other and shake their heads in disgust.

Yeah, his entirely unsolicited brag to Null about literally fisting his disabled “girlfriend” says it all.

And while Chris normally hates uniformed cops, a plain clothes detective is something he’s never dealt with. Extra points if they were wise enough to use a female investigator to question him.

 

[A Grey Cat]

The defense can submit “Mein Kampf” or “101 Ways To Trick Your Autist Son Into Fucking You And Have Him Sent Behind Bars” if they feel like it.

It’s up to the prosecution to object and the Judge to rule whether it’s relevant.

In Chris’s case the defense could make a good case that other things Chris wrote or said are very relevant, since it shows that he has a tendency to “flights of fancy” and posting fantastical, obviously not true stories and roleplaying scenarios.

The prosecutor would object since it doesn’t cost them anything and the judge would rule on it.

Judges tend to lean to the side of the defendant, especially in cases like Chris.


As for bias against Chris’s disturbing looks, they’ll obviously try to clean him up good and give him either a suit or respectable dress/gender neutral clothes. (Depending on how hard they’ll push the “poor wittle trans woman” angle.

Either way you wouldn’t get your usual disheveled, disgusting looking Chris.

Frankly they should give him back the Sonichus shirt to wear and whatever crap they didn't confiscated when they caught him let him be presented to the court dressed like a fucking clown. Show them he's no major threat to anyone just completely smooth brained a harmless albeit brainless moron.