Captain Marvel - Literally, from "her" to "hero"

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Are you actually going to watch this flick?

  • No

    Votes: 74 17.0%
  • Fuck, no

    Votes: 177 40.7%
  • Not in cinemas

    Votes: 81 18.6%
  • Yes

    Votes: 40 9.2%
  • (((Yes)))

    Votes: 20 4.6%
  • Twitter told me I must, I can't say no, you white-cis-sexist-oppresive scum!

    Votes: 43 9.9%

  • Total voters
    435
I don't know if it will bomb. People might just be drawn in to see it simply because of Endgame. Though I think if they fuck up Endgame, they'll Last Jedi themselves.
 
I don't know if it will bomb. People might just be drawn in to see it simply because of Endgame. Though I think if they fuck up Endgame, they'll Last Jedi themselves.

I don't think anyone really cares about the character. But like I said earlier, who really knows?
 
I had skimmed that Hollywood Reporter article, even skimming it's a slog to get through.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/f...ave-womankind-but-shes-doing-her-best-1185915



"I always wanted to be a tough woman-of-adventure as a girl, and I'm still so tough some pandering piece of average capeshit film that was at least somewhat better than being repeatedly poked in the eyes with a sharpened stick, made me weep uncontrollably in public".
My girlfriend said wonder woman made her tear up too. I told her feminism had made her stupid and we didn't talk for a week. Now I want to know what the secret formula is to convince people your capeshit movie is deep and meaningful.
 
I don't know if it will bomb. People might just be drawn in to see it simply because of Endgame. Though I think if they fuck up Endgame, they'll Last Jedi themselves.
I hope Endgame won’t get buttfucked by Captain Marvel’s underperformance if it happens.
 
My girlfriend said wonder woman made her tear up too. I told her feminism had made her stupid and we didn't talk for a week. Now I want to know what the secret formula is to convince people your capeshit movie is deep and meaningful.

I do believe it's the same formula that Twilight uses. Create a borderline Mary-Sue hero that the reader/viewer can project onto, and then do a bunch of emotional beats that satisfy what they want to feel. Add cliches liberally, then stir with a soundtrack.
 
I do believe it's the same formula that Twilight uses. Create a borderline Mary-Sue hero that the reader/viewer can project onto, and then do a bunch of emotional beats that satisfy what they want to feel. Add cliches liberally, then stir with a soundtrack.

I'mma give you Kiwis a writing secret for pulpy stuff. Women typically project themselves into the role the female protagonists. They imagine themselves in the female's place. Which is why you get these female characters in Romance Novels and Twilights are basically nothing characters. They have very little to them, except maybe you'd write them as 'plain but beautiful' as to not totally rape suspension of disbelief. This is because women fill in the blanks with themselves. Nobody wants to admit it, but read a romance novel. Every female protagonist is very floaty with little characterization, sometimes even description, while the dudes get a ton of it. So when you get women going "YASS KEWWEEN" They're imagining themselves in the place of Captain Marvel or that Twilight Girl or the Bitch in 50 Shades. They project themselves into the work, imagining what they would do. Characterization limits this, so in female-centric media, female characters are generic for a reason, so the audience can project themselves onto them. I always hear 'Well, the woman who wrote Twilight wrote herself as the female part!' No shit, that's how female pulp writing and romance writing works. You didn't make an amazing discovery. Its what romance novels have been doing for the past 50 years. Men hate Twilight because its generally not for men. Its a romance novel. Same with 50 Shades. Which I never got the scandal over because some bodice ripper romance novels are pretty fucking explicit.

In contrast, Male-Centric pulp typically revolves around being a different person. Imagining you as Han Solo, not projecting your own personality on him, but changing it. Which why you want to know his history, what he looks like how he's a womanizer. You want to BE him. You don't want to be yourself, generally speaking. I mean, just think about D&D and these elaborate backstories guys make for their characters. Sure sometimes its a veiled avatar but most of the time they're playing as someone completely different from themselves. Escapist entertainment for men and women are very different. Which is why you're seeing this massive culture clash.

And of course, this is just in general. There are a lot of exceptions and nuances to this. But that's the difference between male focused and female focused entertainment. Its this way not because of sexism, its this way because that's the way the market is. The market caters to what its audiences want.

Obviously, this is when we're talking about pulpy, popcorn novels, not literary classics or genuine hard fiction. But when you get down to the pulp level, you have to give people what they want, and men and women are drawn to diametrically different things in their popcorn fiction typically. Of course, good popcorn fiction allows and satisfies for both, which takes good writers. But again, in terms of pulpy shit like Twilight and some video-games, this just isn't the case because its just easier to focus on your core with minimal amount of effort.

And its why cross-over efforts are bound to fail if they're not done correctly. You see this tons of times.
 
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I'mma give you Kiwis a writing secret for pulpy stuff. Women typically project themselves into the role the female protagonists. They imagine themselves in the female's place. Which is why you get these female characters in Romance Novels and Twilights are basically nothing characters. They have very little to them, except maybe you'd write them as 'plain but beautiful' as to not totally rape suspension of disbelief. This is because women fill in the blanks with themselves. Nobody wants to admit it, but read a romance novel. Every female protagonist is very floaty with little characterization, sometimes even description, while the dudes get a ton of it. So when you get women going "YASS KEWWEEN" They're imagining themselves in the place of Captain Marvel or that Twilight Girl or the Bitch in 50 Shades. They project themselves into the work, imagining what they would do. Characterization limits this, so in female-centric media, female characters are generic for a reason, so the audience can project themselves onto them. I always hear 'Well, the woman who wrote Twilight wrote herself as the female part!' No shit, that's how female pulp writing and romance writing works. You didn't make an amazing discovery. Its what romance novels have been doing for the past 50 years. Men hate Twilight because its generally not for men. Its a romance novel. Same with 50 Shades. Which I never got the scandal over because some bodice ripper romance novels are pretty fucking explicit.

In contrast, Male-Centric pulp typically revolves around being a different person. Imagining you as Han Solo, not projecting your own personality on him, but changing it. Which why you want to know his history, what he looks like how he's a womanizer. You want to BE him. You don't want to be yourself, generally speaking. I mean, just think about D&D and these elaborate backstories guys make for their characters. Sure sometimes its a veiled avatar but most of the time they're playing as someone completely different from themselves. Escapist entertainment for men and women are very different. Which is why you're seeing this massive culture clash.

And of course, this is just in general. There are a lot of exceptions and nuances to this. But that's the difference between male focused and female focused entertainment. Its this way not because of sexism, its this way because that's the way the market is. The market caters to what its audiences want.

Obviously, this is when we're talking about pulpy, popcorn novels, not literary classics or genuine hard fiction. But when you get down to the pulp level, you have to give people what they want, and men and women are drawn to diametrically different things in their popcorn fiction typically. Of course, good popcorn fiction allows and satisfies for both, which takes good writers. But again, in terms of pulpy shit like Twilight and some video-games, this just isn't the case because its just easier to focus on your core with minimal amount of effort.

And its why cross-over efforts are bound to fail if they're not done correctly. You see this tons of times.
This makes me wonder if Captain Marvel would still be successful even when you put the female-centric pulp storytelling factor into the equation. That Star Wars Girl is one of the female critics who don't like her because she acts like a Mean Girl.
 
I don't know if it will bomb. People might just be drawn in to see it simply because of Endgame. Though I think if they fuck up Endgame, they'll Last Jedi themselves.

If Captain Marvel swoops in and saves the day in Endgame like it's nothing (you know ... As if the past DECADE of characters we've grown to love don't matter), I am flat-out done with the MCU.
 
If Captain Marvel swoops in and saves the day in Endgame like it's nothing (you know ... As if the past DECADE of characters we've grown to love don't matter), I am flat-out done with the MCU.

Based on leaked spoilers, Captain Marvel ends with her forming a bargain bin Nova Corp. to fight alien invasions. My feeling is that she's going to play a similar role to the Wakandans in Infinity War. She'll ferry the Avengers from Earth to Thanos's homeworld and also stage the attack against his armies, while the final fight will still be between Thanos and the remaining Avengers.
 
Based on leaked spoilers, Captain Marvel ends with her forming a bargain bin Nova Corp. to fight alien invasions. My feeling is that she's going to play a similar role to the Wakandans in Infinity War. She'll ferry the Avengers from Earth to Thanos's homeworld and also stage the attack against his armies, while the final fight will still be between Thanos and the remaining Avengers.
I'm hoping for something similar. Even if she's part of the final battle, make it part of a team effort instead of Captain Marvel just mopping up the floor with Thanos Vegito style. That being said, I don't know if the writers will be able to resist mary suing her up, like enabling her to at least partially lift Mjolnir of stuff like that.
 
Based on leaked spoilers, Captain Marvel ends with her forming a bargain bin Nova Corp. to fight alien invasions. My feeling is that she's going to play a similar role to the Wakandans in Infinity War. She'll ferry the Avengers from Earth to Thanos's homeworld and also stage the attack against his armies, while the final fight will still be between Thanos and the remaining Avengers.

I don't mind this at all.
 

A ridiculously bad take on Captain Marvel. Ignoring the fact it's women and non-whites who are disinterested in this movie too.

Like what the fuck is wrong with these weirdos? And we know that they will forget about this movie soon after release like they usually do.

Honestly, all this virtue signalling over Captain Marvel will probably lead to it going the way of Ghostbusters 2016.
 

A ridiculously bad take on Captain Marvel. Ignoring the fact it's women and non-whites who are disinterested in this movie too.

Like what the fuck is wrong with these weirdos? And we know that they will forget about this movie soon after release like they usually do.

  1. Tweet something mean at white guys
  2. HAHA LOOK AT ALL THESE WHITE GUYS MAD ON THE INTERNET
Help me out, but is there a logical fallacy this would fall under? At the least, this has been a really uncomfortable trend for the last few years. I can't imagine you could say something nasty about any other demographic and then just get away with saying "you're missing the point" or "look at all these [x] mad on the internet" or "so fragile!" to any response that isn't total agreement or silence.
 
They've been wanking themselves silly over captain marvel for years now, I really think that Marvel/Disney want her to be there Superman pushing her to a truly obnoxious degree and tinkering with her character to make her as bland as possible. If this film doesnt make all the money forever and make her a household name I suspect it will be percieved as a failure.
 
Somebody at Disney clearly said "WE NEED A SUPERMAN" and they've been trying to do Captain Marvel for half-a-decade and it just 19isn't working. That hasn't stopped them yet.

It's obvious to me as well, however, I find it hilarious that Marvel and Disney feel like they need their own Superman in the first place.

ALL of the Superman movies over the past 40 years have been cinematic disasters.
 
It's obvious to me as well, however, I find it hilarious that Marvel and Disney feel like they need their own Superman in the first place.

ALL of the Superman movies over the past 40 years have been cinematic disasters.

I liked Man of Steel and Batman V Superman.
 
Marvel (the comics division) has been pushing CM for years for a few reasons. One, they need to publish a title with the Captain Marvel name every few years in order to keep that name exclusive to them, otherwise DC and Billy Batson can take it back. Two, they really want a female character that they can hold as one of the “big guns” up there with Iron Man, Cap, or Wolverine. See Civil War 2 where they tried to pretend she was a character with enough gravitas to go up against Tony. And I think they just can’t resist the virtue signalling of having the character named after the company be a strong independent woman. They’ve tried holding her up as the flagship Marvel character for years now even though nobody cares about her.

Something I noticed and the reason I hunted down this thread; I can’t count the number of times I’ve seen movie Carol defined as strong/powerful/tenacious. That’s actually something I’ve noticed a lot in recent years. Male characters in general are described by various personality traits, as well as any feats they perform or cool tricks they do. Female characters tend to get described by how strong-willed they are. That’s it. Maybe it makes it easier for the female audience to project themselves as these characters?
 
It kind of baffles me that the majority of the best female characters in fiction were written ten years or more ago as opposed to now. Back then, people didn't need to try to make female characters empowering--it just came naturally when they weren't trying so hard to be woke or feminist or whatever. I could name hundreds of solid female characters from movies, tv shows, comics, games, etc. that all have their place as excellent female protagonists without needing to shove their gender in everyone's faces.

But again, I guess those don't count. :roll:
 
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