Arkane Studios: Dishonored / Deus Ex / Thief - One of the gaming industry's most unfortunate victims.

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hold the fucking phone, that's basically the backstory of lamae after getting raped by molag bal to become the first vampire.
I couldn't get over how incredibly fucking safe and lame the main cast of Redfall is. None of them even fit the fucking genre outside of maybe the soldier guy.

Where's my homeless conspiracy theorist guy? My goth occultist? An Edgar Allen Poe esc writer with connections to the supernatural?

Devs keep trying to appeal to Zoomers and millennials by writing obnoxious Zoomers and millennials but as someone who hangs with both demos neither group likes that shit.
 
Dishonored 1 is a fun game and far more than the sum of its parts. It has ok gameplay that while fun, can't fully hold up a game all on its own, but it supplements it with amazing worldbuilding, fantastic art direction, excellent writing and unbelievable level design allowing said gameplay to shine far more than it otherwise would be able to in another game, and the knife of dunwall expands on those aspects.

Dishonored as a franchise had set itself up in a way that allowed to go only up for that point, they had created an intresting, a solid gameplay foundation, a superb art direction, and the lore of the game and its powers allowed them to expand on basically every single aspect.

So its all the more shocking when dishonored 2 ended up being the wet fart that it was. For some god forsaken reason they hired anita sarkeesian as a councilor, a literal con artist that knows nothing about videogames to advice them.

As a result the story was downgraded to absolute dogshit. They pulled a fucking palpatine, brought back a villain that had a satisfying and beyond fucking conclusive end ruining (spoiler)'s redemption in the process. At that point the game was already iredeemable in my eyes.

They turned emily into a lesbian, showing that she cares more about getting her pussy wet than not causing a succession crisis, and for some god forsaken reason decided to make 2 seperate campaigns as "alternative timelines" only 1 of which is canon which is beyond fucking retarded.

Corvo and Emily have 2 seperate power sets, but because you can play the campaign with both, that means the puzzles and levels have to be solvable by both, ergo you can't actually have any puzzles that require use of specific powers*** meaning the levels are really fucking shit.

Here's how a competent developer would do it. Some levels are for corvo, some for emily, and the levels are designed to take advantage of one another's powerset, instead of wasting twice the effort for half the results.

Level design/writing and general creativity has also been vastly downgraded. The clockwork mansion is a wet fart at best and the levels are bland and forgetable.

Ontop of that the dishonored world, canonically composed of 4 islands based on greece, ireland, england and russia, have been "culturally enriched" with something like 40% of the population now speaking ebonics and half the police force now being women.

The powers system is still overly simplistic and hasn't significantly changed from the first game either, most powers are alt versions of the old ones and you can still only use 1 power at a time and the dogshit fucking chaos system that discourages you from using all the fun powers is STILL in.

The overal plot in general is shit. Palpatine is back, he walks in the senate and declares himself emperor, everyone agrees for some reason, he tries to repeat his plan from the first game (despite already being emperor so what is even the point????) you knock him out, he wakes up confused and he runs headfirst into a Wile E. Coyote wall and dies. (im not joking look up the ending if you dont mind spoilers from the first game)

The only praise I can give dishonored 2 is that the time traveling mansion level is mindblowingly fucking good and it SHOCKS me that a gem this high quality exists in that ocean of this much shit.


***Then came death of the outsider which was a double edged sword. You start with all the powers and unlimited mana meaning that puzzles now can and DO incorporate powers making them far more intresting and complex, the chaos system is gone meaning you can use your toys, and level design is fun and intresting again giving you multiple legitimate and creative solutions and approaches to problems.

Which makes it even sadder that writing craters even harder. The protagonist is now the shaniqua traitor from the first game who uses black grillboss power to kill the fucking outsider that was just some boy a bunch of cultists stabbed with a magic dagger??? Honestly just let it fucking die already, they mangled the writing so bad it hurts.

Doesn't help that death of the outsider also retcons the time travel level, undoing the best level in the game.

Fun fact.

First game, white male protagonist: Fully masked.

Second game, white female protagonist: Only half of the face is masked.

Third game, Blxck female protagonist: Face fully visible.

Mhm. Right. Coincidence, of course.


When I heard that dishonored 3 was in development my reaction wasn't hype, it was dread, because I'm just afraid of how much more they'll mangle the characters, the world and the story. They already brought palpatine back, made emily a lesbian and Blxcked half the population.

Just let it fucking die, please.

EDIT: Oh and the outsider, I forgot about the outsider. They butchered what made him intresting.

In the first game the outsider was bordering a lovecraft entity. Some sort of... being... obviously not human but wearing human skin to interact with you, completely apathetic, so old he's bored out of his mind and only gives you powers to fuck shit up because he's looking for entertainment.

In the second game they made him a tryhard desperate for you to like him. In the first game he was standing still, hovering above the ground with arms crossed speaking in monotone to give you his thoughts, talking to you in a matter of fact way.

In the second game he teleports all around while doing jojo poses as if he's trying to impress you. "Am I cool yet? Look how quirky I am lol, I teleport and sit at random places, yeah I'm like that. I'm too real for you buddy", while suddently being an agent of justice that helps the downtroden, and the apathy in this voice is gone, and he spends half the dialogue whinning.

He went from an arcane patron/uncaring malevolence to someone's shitty hot topic goth OC character.

Wtf is this, who wrote this?

The original outsider inspired people to try and connect the dots in the lore. They were suspecting that he was one of the ancient leviathans in the ocean projecting its conciousness through the void, an entity older than humanity itself, but nah, he's just a boy stabbed with a ritual dagger LOL
 
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Dont forget it's better to knock out a woman and give her to her creepy stalker so she'll spend the rest of her life on his island getting raped.
The non-lethal options are always meant to be more of karma catching up to the targets.

Overseer getting branded, Regent being exposed for his crimes, the brothers being forced to work in their own mines etc.

It's also been canon that the Lady Boyle target is the worst of the sisters and she killed her stalker and got his stuff after DH1.
 
Can you elaborate?
Dishonored: The Corroded Man novel.

Waverly basically took over the stalkers estate after he 'disappeared' and is mostly fine.

Lydia got dementia and ended up insane and was basically solitarily confined and declared dead to public & taken care of by their servants. Later on she got killed for her bones to be used for bone charms (lol)

Esma after experiencing the shit above gave her job over to her nephew and is most likely just living her life.

TL: DR
The nastiest of the sisters is fucking fine whereas Esma had to deal with Lydia going insane & killed.
 
Can you elaborate?
Sounds to me like the usual case of the developers cucking and rewriting the previous game plot point to remove something uncomfortable, since putting a villainous men to slavery is justified, but having a villainous woman be raped is a step too far.

In general it's amazing how that single thing is like 60% of the conversation about the game.
 
TL: DR
The nastiest of the sisters is fucking fine whereas Esma had to deal with Lydia going insane & killed.
What makes her the nastiest other than being a traitor?

EDIT, I looked it up:

Appart from funding the coup, the plague, and half the corruption in the city all by herself, if you use the heart on her you get these wonderful lines:

  • "A favorite game of hers is to befriend a young socialite, and then see her ruined within a year."
  • "A servant from Morley once stirred her so deeply, she had him killed the next day."
Naturally redditors are jizzing in their pants over her horribly unjust fate being finally and rightfuly undone, meanwhile:
Sounds to me like the usual case of the developers cucking and rewriting the previous game plot point to remove something uncomfortable, since putting a villainous men to slavery is justified, but having a villainous woman be raped is a step too far.

In general it's amazing how that single thing is like 60% of the conversation about the game.
Unbelievably fucking cringe. Cutting tongues off the men and tossing them in the slave pits while branding people as permenant pariahs for life is perfectly acceptable, but giving lady boyle to her stalker that will keep her in a gilded cage crosses a moral line that just NEEDED to be retconned?

Meanwhile in the second game you perform a fucking lobotomy on Jindosh, and the worst the women get is living in a fantasy world of their own creation or being perfectly free to do whatever they want but no longer have access to superpowers.

Its no wonder these writers are so self unaware, because if they realized the depth of their hypocrisy they'd be probably kill themselves out of shame. There's nothing more embarassing than creators going back to a finished work and trying to sand off all the edges to appease the current zeitgeist.
 
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Dishonored: The Corroded Man novel.
Which was marketing material Dishonored 2, coming out a few weeks before the game did. At the time I remember thinking the book was ok but I also didn't come to terms with accepting D2 was shit until my second playthrough.

As much as I love the Dishonored universe, the only way I'm getting back on board with a sequel is if it's a hard reboot and Arkane and Harvey Smith aren't involved, although it's MS pulling the strings and it'll still end up pozzed no matter what.
Meanwhile in the second game you perform a fucking lobotomy on Jindosh
Which is one of the most monumentally stupid decisions the game forces the player to make. The guy is much more valuable alive than dead or lobotomized. By the time of D2, Piero is dead and Sokolov has one foot in the grave. The empire would have need of a scientific mind like his. I get that it'd be a writing blunder to go from (potentially) saving Hypatia to immediately abducting Jindosh but there are ways around it.
 
Devs keep trying to appeal to Zoomers and millennials by writing obnoxious Zoomers and millennials but as someone who hangs with both demos neither group likes that shit.
that's shitty writing in general, you had the same years ago where they wrote every character as "wacky and fun", ghostbusters 2016 is probably the best example for that where everyone is written as fucking venkman. a character like that only works in contrast, you need the the stoic no-nonsense character as a foil. imagine ace ventura but everyone behaves like ace ventura...
 
I try to be even-handed but something about Dishonored 2 just didn't rub with me the same way as the original. On surface, everything seemed good: new powers, new setting, lore and worldbuilding, and so on. But in the end, it just felt... ehhh? I could happily replay 1, spend a lot of time in Back Alley Brawl for the simplistic yet addicting combat, yet the sequel just didn't catch the same fluidity.

Cautiously optimistic about 3 but seeing Arkane's recent track record it's gonna blow.
 
try to be even-handed but something about Dishonored 2 just didn't rub with me the same way as the original.
It's a really clear cut case of new devs or directors misunderstanding or not caring about the work that came before.

In terms of gameplay they doubled down on powers but also wanted to make the game where you could beat it without using any so the world isn't designed with any powers in mind. And there's a general clunkiness to the gameplay whereas Dishonored 1 was smooth as butter. There are some amazing and stand out levels that way outclass the first game but they can also be a drag on replays because they're long and very complex.

In terms of world and story they did the worst thing a sequel can do, fuck up the first entry. It has retarded modern writing problems where nothing can be left to interpretation or implication, everything must be spelled out for even the dumbest fuckers in the audience. This is most blatant with The Outsider, who was an enigmatic true neutral godlike figure in the Dishonored world with many possible explanations as to his purpose/origin. Dishonored 2 completely ruined this. Not only does he show up and directly explain to you what his own backstory is, the game has a weird moral stance on how he and his powers are bad and wrong and both of the protagonists can tell him to fuck off.

Then the DLC lets fucking Billy Lurk, of all people, depower and kill him. Talk about utterly fucking over your setting's most compelling entity.

Delilah should not have been the villain for obvious reasons. It basically means Daud's entire DLC was pointless, and a villain you already beat once isn't exactly a threatening figure.

Every part of the game is just constantly arguing with the prequel, and usually failing, because what little it does add itself is generally bad. The only thing that 2 has that I really like is New Game +. That shit should have been in Dishonored 1.
 
they doubled down on powers but also wanted to make the game where you could beat it without using any so the world isn't designed with any powers in mind
I've beat both games without using powers and this is definitely more pronounced in the second. If they wanted to strike a balance for a power less playthrough, they could have something like having either an amicable overseer who'd sell the player neat shit or let the player have martial abilities that are otherwise unavailable. That, or playing without powers should have been a serious feat. As it stands, it just kind of shoehorns the player into playing lethal stealth.
There are some amazing and stand out levels that way outclass the first game but they can also be a drag on replays because they're long and very complex.
None of the D2 levels were on par with to the Flooded District or Kaldwin's Bridge imo. Addermire is super good but it's also bolstered by the first part of the mission drawing it out. The Dust District/A Crack in the Slab is similar but with a (good) gimmick. The Royal Conservatory is ok but that's just because I like the setting. The rest are retarded and returning to Dunwall Tower for the final mission is so fucking lame it's appropriate for a game with a reused villain. Dunwall Tower was the worst level in the first game too.

Dishonored 1 didn't really have any gimmick levels unless you're counting the Boyle Mansion which is more of a gimmick mission than the level itself.
 
It's a really clear cut case of new devs or directors misunderstanding or not caring about the work that came before.

In terms of gameplay they doubled down on powers but also wanted to make the game where you could beat it without using any so the world isn't designed with any powers in mind. And there's a general clunkiness to the gameplay whereas Dishonored 1 was smooth as butter. There are some amazing and stand out levels that way outclass the first game but they can also be a drag on replays because they're long and very complex.

In terms of world and story they did the worst thing a sequel can do, fuck up the first entry. It has retarded modern writing problems where nothing can be left to interpretation or implication, everything must be spelled out for even the dumbest fuckers in the audience. This is most blatant with The Outsider, who was an enigmatic true neutral godlike figure in the Dishonored world with many possible explanations as to his purpose/origin. Dishonored 2 completely ruined this. Not only does he show up and directly explain to you what his own backstory is, the game has a weird moral stance on how he and his powers are bad and wrong and both of the protagonists can tell him to fuck off.

Then the DLC lets fucking Billy Lurk, of all people, depower and kill him. Talk about utterly fucking over your setting's most compelling entity.

Delilah should not have been the villain for obvious reasons. It basically means Daud's entire DLC was pointless, and a villain you already beat once isn't exactly a threatening figure.

Every part of the game is just constantly arguing with the prequel, and usually failing, because what little it does add itself is generally bad. The only thing that 2 has that I really like is New Game +. That shit should have been in Dishonored 1.
Im torn on dishonored games. Everything feels so poorly tought & exectuted out except the gameplay and level design. Which you only really get to enjoy if you play the game in a 'bad' high chaos way. Then the sequel comes along and fucks that up to instead of it being a powerfantasy like the first game it feels like you are controlling a drunk Corvo. The gameplay with the new engine is just worse cause it's less consitant. There is noticable input lag that makes ds2 controls feel not tight and responsive like DS1. The movement mechanics have inconsistencies with how work creating a lot of frustrations for the player, crouch will sometimes activate fast other times slow, sometimes you will vault up ledges other times not and you will hit more then a few invisible walls when trying to navigate levels. In order to make this game beatable without powers they had to bring a massive nerfbat to blink where it's no longer as long range or fast. As if to spit in the wound they have also made it less predictable as to where you will go. The mana recharge mechanic is also terrible with how long you have to wait inbetween powers and whats worse is that the internal cooldown of powers isn't the same if you are airborn meaning it will throw off blinks if you are trying to elevate yourself off an object.
 
Arkane/Bethesda/Microsoft decided to throw some money in trying to drum up attention now that their "Game Update 2" dropped yesterday?
That's an old screenshot. I was just looking over the dumb shit Arkane did with Redflop.
Similar to nubisoft, some retarded committee or higherup (probably a diversity hire) comes up with some dumb idea and then a team of developers have to work around the clock trying to make his shitty idea into a reality. IGN took down the link for reasons I can't possibly imagine, since they're such an honest publication with a lot of integrity.

The only praise I can give dishonored 2 is that the time traveling mansion level is mindblowingly fucking good and it SHOCKS me that a gem this high quality exists in that ocean of this much shit.
I also really enjoyed it, but there's just too many guards and it goes on for way too long like all levels in D2. There were some clever time-bending puzzles that you don't see much of in modern triple A.
If Dishonored is better than the sum of it parts, then Dishonored 2 is worse than the sum of it parts.
I skipped the story of Dishonored 2 and had a great time.
I can definitely relate to this. That game really shines when you shut out all the annoying bullshit and focus on Corvo going through hell to save his daughter. Although the game will still feel sluggish and unfinished, it really is the best way to experience it. The excellent music and SOME interesting parts in the level design somehow make it all worth it. Dishonored 2 is basically being caught in a car-crash, yet you get some pretty decent meals in the hospital afterwards. You will have to deal with a horrific pain for the rest few months, but you at least ate some pretty good food. Send some compliments to the chef for his service, and a noose around the driver's neck.
 
I skipped the story of Dishonored 2 and had a great time.
I find the DH2 hate in this thread to be baffling. DH2's story is total dogshit and I'm the first who'll say it, but the levels are brilliant (if overdesigned). I've beaten it on Very Hard with only Emily powers, only Corvo powers, a mix of both, and no powers at all, as well as on ironman, and it always holds up. There's always some new path to take or some different strategy to use.

It was buggy as shit on launch, but those problems have long since been fixed. Is it as good as DH1? I guess not, but if you don't find the Clockwork Mansion or A Crack in the Slab to be sublime, at least on a first playthrough, then you must have no joy in life. I also think the cityscape missions are more intelligently put forth and lain out in 2 than in 1; and while bloodflies are annoying compared to rats, it was a clever way to do thesamethingagainbutdifferent for a sequel.

But I also have no problem turning off my sound and completely ignoring the retarded writing. This is the best way to enjoy most games.

I thought Avellone was supposed to be a good writer?
He is and Prey's writing is phenomenal up until the retarded last five seconds. Five retarded seconds should not undo 30 hours of brilliance.
 
The non-lethal options are always meant to be more of karma catching up to the targets.

Overseer getting branded, Regent being exposed for his crimes, the brothers being forced to work in their own mines etc.

It's also been canon that the Lady Boyle target is the worst of the sisters and she killed her stalker and got his stuff after DH1.
Except that's not how the chaos system actually works or plays out. Chaos is supposed to be roughly summed up as more bodies=more plague and filth and crimes and unrest. The non-lethal option for the first target results in him being a weeper, more plague but it leads to no added chaos or rat spawns.

It's best not to think about it because the story is fairly cartoonish and the world is ok enough to be immersive but from a gameplay perspective this makes no sense. I should preface that nothing in these games is difficult regardless of difficulty because you're always playing with debug commands but if you want the "more difficult" route you need to play the "easier" way by killing everyone and failing stealth on purpose. There's no added guard presence or rat spawns or less loot etc. for players going mostly or completely non-lethal who would be the players seeking more challenge.

The difficulty scaling curve is reversed and confused. This works to show the narrative consequences of your actions and choices but again, the story is very childish, good guys, bad guys and a betrayal twist. So seeing more death and despair doesn't matter to me especially on repeat playthroughs. The game design has mixed up priorities and a lack of focus.
 
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