Any Stargate fans?

[Migraine Box]

Due to the global shortage of sound stages

Can they not just convert random old buildings into soundstages anymore? Stargate has a long history of that, as The Bridge Studios, where SG-1 and Atlantis were shot, was a former bridge fabrication facility (most famously, the Golden Gate Bridge was built there), and heck even the original film's sets were built in the Spruce Goose's hangar in Long Beach. What's Hollywood's excuse now?

 

[Screamer_2]

Can they not just convert random old buildings into soundstages anymore? Stargate has a long history of that, as The Bridge Studios, where SG-1 and Atlantis were shot, was a former bridge fabrication facility (most famously, the Golden Gate Bridge was built there), and heck even the original film's sets were built in the Spruce Goose's hangar in Long Beach. What's Hollywood's excuse now?

They will do that if need be.

I'll just clarify the lack of soundstages was more, in the boom of streaming. There were so many productions that in places people wanted to film. It was often hard to find a film studio and stages to film.

A film studio is way more than big empty buildings. A lot of production facilities and talent is needed to make these large productions. If Bridge Studios was just an empty bunch of buildings and not already an established studio, a show like SG1 would have been far too expensive to get made.

Filming and run out of a specific studio doesn't mean it gets entirely filmed there and they won't take over large random buildings. The Apple+ show SILO is film out of one of the studios Apple uses for many of its shows in the UK. With it's main set constructed in a random warehouse in a near by industrial estate.

 

[Migraine Box]

Finally finished my full re-watch of SG1, along with Ark of Truth. Still going by Gateworld's optimized watch order list which interweaves Atlantis as well, so more to look forward to in the Pegasus galaxy, I guess.

One thing that really, really took me by surprise was how good Ark of Truth looked compared to S9 and S10. I know it's a movie and they had a much larger budget to play around with, but it visually felt much more like the earlier seasons of SG-1 than the latter. Looked up the technical details on IMDb and was absolutely vindicated: Ark was shot on Super 16mm, the same format as the early seasons. God it's not even funny how better film captures light and how much natural texture it provides. Really makes me wonder if they actually changed how the show was lit during S9 and 10, or if it was relatively the same but looked so much worse due to the vastly different sensitivities of digital camera sensors

 

[Screamer_2]

Ark was shot on Super 16mm, the same format as the early seasons. God it's not even funny how better film captures light and how much natural texture it provides. Really makes me wonder if they actually changed how the show was lit during S9 and 10, or if it was relatively the same but looked so much worse due to the vastly different sensitivities of digital camera sensors

It's the way digital camera sensors record detail compared to film. The film captures the image on a bunch of crystals, with textures and grain. Where as digital you have a camera sensor that is made up of a grid of pixels and there's maths going on in the processor that is trying to compensate for the information between the pixels when capturing the image. Averaging out values ect.

Imformation is just captured differently; things that would be smoothed out in film, implied more detail can be sharp in digital. A lot of tricks in production in how things looked on film, needed to be changed when they switched to digital because it looked fake.

A production needs a rusted metal hatch for a door in an old battleship. What reads as that on film, may just look like painted wood on digital.

SG1 started in the 16mm era and nothing wouldn't have originally been made to look good for digital as that wasn't a thing. There was probably just a mish mash of what changes to production were made with the switch over, but many aspects of production weren't.

 

[Miller]

I believe the first two seasons were shot in 16mm, then 35 until season 8 or 9 when they switched to digital cameras.

 

[natural born loser]

I know it's a movie and they had a much larger budget to play around with

And yet the ancient TRVTH NVKE machine is a plastic bin.

 

[Captain Syrup]

And yet the ancient TRVTH NVKE machine is a plastic bin.

Looks like a Rubbermaid container your mom keeps Christmas ornaments in.

 

[Migraine Box]

A production needs a rusted metal hatch for a door in an old battleship. What reads as that on film, may just look like painted wood on digital.

SG1 started in the 16mm era and nothing wouldn't have originally been made to look good for digital as that wasn't a thing. There was probably just a mish mash of what changes to production were made with the switch over, but many aspects of production weren't.

The sets surprisingly held up on digital, i.e. the doors still looked like cast steel and the walls still looked like concrete (although the high-gloss polish they gave the floor starting in Season 9 didn't help). The motherships in particular were still stunning. What didn't hold up was the lighting and colors, skin tones in particular. A lot of characters looked like they had a bad tan, especially Daniel throughout season 10, who looked somewhere between Trump orange and jaundice.

On the commentary for 'Irresistible' on Atlantis, one of the first episodes to re-use SG1's indoor village set, the DP complained how difficult it was to light that set convincingly duo to the cameras they were using. On the commentary for 'Sateda', the director and DP for that episode went on about the various mediums they shot that episode on, a mix of their regular digital, plus 35mm, 8mm, MiniDV and several others iirc. The DP specifically wanted to shoot all the explosions on film as the brightness blew out on the digital cameras. IDK, just some interesting tidbits. I don't have the DVDs for the later seasons of SG1 so I haven't been able to listen to those commentaries, maybe they talked about the transition and difficulties more.

It's not exactly the ark of the covenant.

View attachment 8644890

Looks like a Rubbermaid container your mom keeps Christmas ornaments in.

Yeah, I don't know how the prop team OK'd it for use looking like...that. The paint job looks outright unfinished, even a bit of silver drybrushing like on every other piece of Ancient or Goa'uld tech would've helped a ton.

 

[natural born loser]

View attachment 8644890

Looks like a Rubbermaid container your mom keeps Christmas ornaments in.

I think it's a cooler.

 

[Miller]

On the commentary for 'Sateda', the director and DP for that episode went on about the various mediums they shot that episode on, a mix of their regular digital, plus 35mm, 8mm, MiniDV and several others iirc. The DP specifically wanted to shoot all the explosions on film as the brightness blew out on the digital cameras. IDK, just some interesting tidbits.

You can really see how much work went into that episode. Sateda was the second most expensive episode to shoot (the first being the pilot).
To me it's the only episode that made Ronon tolerable as a character, for once he was more than a gorilla with a revolver.

The sets surprisingly held up on digital, i.e. the doors still looked like cast steel and the walls still looked like concrete (although the high-gloss polish they gave the floor starting in Season 9 didn't help). The motherships in particular were still stunning. What didn't hold up was the lighting and colors, skin tones in particular. A lot of characters looked like they had a bad tan, especially Daniel throughout season 10, who looked somewhere between Trump orange and jaundice.

I think the SGC and the Destiny sets work because they nailed the lighting out of the park. Most of the time the light comes from the neons and bulbs that you can see and it helps the immersion too. I always imagined that the Atlantis set was more complex to shoot because of how bright the whole thing was.

View attachment 8644890

Looks like a Rubbermaid container your mom keeps Christmas ornaments in.

The prop designs in general really took a dive in quality in the later seasons, same on Atlantis.
The circle motif on the side makes the Ark look like a Goa'uld invention more than an Ancient one.

 

[teriyakiburns]

The motherships in particular were still stunning. What didn't hold up was the lighting and colors, skin tones in particular. A lot of characters looked like they had a bad tan, especially Daniel throughout season 10, who looked somewhere between Trump orange and jaundice.

They did change the lighting as well as the cameras. There's less texture and fill, and generally a more sitcom-style studio lighting setup, which makes everything look flatter. Reason they switched was the same reason they ditched film for digital: it's cheaper (and looks it), but is also easier to film. Less time setting up. You don't need to care so much about lighting balance when you've got everything lit the same and defocused into the background. They changed out the lenses as well, from what I could see. More depth of field meant they didn't have to spend as much time setting focus for shots, but it also means there's less depth separation in the shot, which makes everything look even flatter.

 

[Migraine Box]

The prop designs in general really took a dive in quality in the later seasons, same on Atlantis.

I understand the prop department becoming tired of staffs and zats but goddamn did they get lazy. The Lucian Alliance using practically unmodified real guns is so, so fucking stupid and immersion-breaking every time they show up. Atlantis inheriting a bunch of Time Cop guns didn't particularly bother me because I've never seen Time Cop, so whatever lol. They also established fairly early on in Atlantis that most planets and cultures in that galaxy understood how to use the Stargates and would use them for trade, so the insane amounts of prop re-use is kinda understandable.

The circle motif on the side makes the Ark look like a Goa'uld invention more than an Ancient one.

To be fair, most Goa'uld tech was wholesale stolen from the Ancients

They changed out the lenses as well, from what I could see. More depth of field meant they didn't have to spend as much time setting focus for shots, but it also means there's less depth separation in the shot, which makes everything look even flatter.

I wonder if this particular change happened in season 9 and is the true main culprit in the visual enshitification. Season 8 was the first to fully use the HD cams (iirc they trialed them in season 4's Entity) and honestly I remember it being perfectly fine, not looking much different than Season 7. Watching 9 was genuinely jarring, and it kept getting worse throughout 10. Except 200, idk what they did there because the Furlings opening and the puppets genuinely felt like they were shot in season 4 or 5.

 

[Miller]

I understand the prop department becoming tired of staffs and zats but goddamn did they get lazy. The Lucian Alliance using practically unmodified real guns is so, so fucking stupid and immersion-breaking every time they show up.

Yeah, I was disappointed when I saw that they were using Earth guns, although it could make sense since they were working with Telford.

Atlantis inheriting a bunch of Time Cop guns didn't particularly bother me because I've never seen Time Cop, so whatever lol. They also established fairly early on in Atlantis that most planets and cultures in that galaxy understood how to use the Stargates and would use them for trade, so the insane amounts of prop re-use is kinda understandable.

I think the Time Cop guns are fine, just like the 3-barrel shotgun (I think it was shared with another show that was filmed at the studio).
The Ancients had those glowing TNG phasers:

To be fair, most Goa'uld tech was wholesale stolen from the Ancients

True.
Something I noticed the other day is that the LEDs for some symbols are visible under the chevrons, lol.

 

[Screamer_2]

Yeah, I was disappointed when I saw that they were using Earth guns, although it could make sense since they were working with Telford.


I think the Time Cop guns are fine, just like the 3-barrel shotgun (I think it was shared with another show that was filmed at the studio).
The Ancients had those glowing TNG phasers:
View attachment 8649037


True.
Something I noticed the other day is that the LEDs for some symbols are visible under the chevrons, lol.
View attachment 8649086

Most likely the classic VFX error of someone not turning on a layer or having them in the wrong order.

They remembered for the close-up.




Interesting that such easy fixes slip through.

 

[sodaboard]

Finally finished my full re-watch of SG1, along with Ark of Truth. Still going by Gateworld's optimized watch order list which interweaves Atlantis as well, so more to look forward to in the Pegasus galaxy, I guess.

One thing that really, really took me by surprise was how good Ark of Truth looked compared to S9 and S10. I know it's a movie and they had a much larger budget to play around with, but it visually felt much more like the earlier seasons of SG-1 than the latter. Looked up the technical details on IMDb and was absolutely vindicated: Ark was shot on Super 16mm, the same format as the early seasons. God it's not even funny how better film captures light and how much natural texture it provides. Really makes me wonder if they actually changed how the show was lit during S9 and 10, or if it was relatively the same but looked so much worse due to the vastly different sensitivities of digital camera sensors

make sure to watch Continuum as well, i think it's way better than Ark of Truth

 

[Migraine Box]

Most likely the classic VFX error of someone not turning on a layer or having them in the wrong order.

They remembered for the close-up.

View attachment 8649548


Interesting that such easy fixes slip through.

I thought the glyphs illuminating was a practical effect, huh. Maybe they enhanced it in post to make them brighter or something?

make sure to watch Continuum as well, i think it's way better than Ark of Truth

I will, don't worry. I'm still in Atlantis S4 where Carter is in command, Continuum takes place after she heads back.

 

[Screamer_2]

I thought the glyphs illuminating was a practical effect, huh. Maybe they enhanced it in post to make them brighter or something?

There were practical ones on the gate on set. I believe that a lot of the animations and dialing sequences used CGI for them. At least some of the time.

Interesting enough, looking into it the tips of the cheverons were transparent and so the lights are meant to shine through. So the picture I posted is actually the VFX mistake. Where the lights don't shine through, and neither are the lights on the V part of the chevron added.

Which further backs up my understanding that they used CGI overlays on the gate for this stuff, at least some of the time.

 

[Migraine Box]

There were practical ones on the gate on set. I believe that a lot of the animations and dialing sequences used CGI for them. At least some of the time.

Interesting enough, looking into it the tips of the cheverons were transparent and so the lights are meant to shine through. So the picture I posted is actually the VFX mistake. Where the lights don't shine through, and neither are the lights on the V part of the chevron added.

Which further backs up my understanding that they used CGI overlays on the gate for this stuff, at least some of the time.

I'm surprised they would use that much CG for the main one in the Gateroom (outside of the kawoosh and puddle jumper scenes) considering it was the "hero" gate prop with all the bells and whistles. The portable one for location shots were mostly CG through iirc, only like 1/3 of one was actually built.

 

[Miller]

There were practical ones on the gate on set. I believe that a lot of the animations and dialing sequences used CGI for them. At least some of the time.

Interesting enough, looking into it the tips of the cheverons were transparent and so the lights are meant to shine through. So the picture I posted is actually the VFX mistake. Where the lights don't shine through, and neither are the lights on the V part of the chevron added.

Which further backs up my understanding that they used CGI overlays on the gate for this stuff, at least some of the time.

I think they used CGI to cover the light shining through the tip of the chevron in the pilot but didn't bother to fix it in the rest of the show.
I wonder if they have ever made a behind-the-scenes video about the gate in the Atlantis gateroom and the tech behind it.

 

[Migraine Box]

I wonder if they have ever made a behind-the-scenes video about the gate in the Atlantis gateroom and the tech behind it.

I could've sworn there was, but after pouring over all the DVD special features, there wasn't even a peep about the gate prop. There was a brief mention in the Sci-Fi channel special, 'Behind the Stargate', that the main Atlantis gate was made of rubber but that was it. If I had to guess, it's rubber because A) much less complex prop as SG=1's, and B) they knew they would move it frequently as the gateroom set was redressed almost every episode.

From what I understand, the main gimmick of the Atlantis gate is that it's "digital" vs SG-1's "analog", i.e. the inner ring doesn't spin. In-universe, the pattern of glyphs are still in a specific order, and each segment can display whatever glyph it needs to while 'digitally' dialing. The prop, however, isn't that configurable, and each glyph segment was designed to show one specific, unchangeable glyph. Doesn't matter much when all they're fully lit, or when dialing as they flash by so fast it's hard to notice. However, when the chevrons lock on, sometimes they used CG to change the glyph to match the correct gate address for that scene. Also, I think that for pure effects shots of an already-open gate, the glyphs are digitally overlaid so they're brighter and more legible than the ones on the prop itself.

One thing that's bothering me now that I look into it is how incredibly inconsistent the gate is lit in any given scene. Sometimes when the gate activates, only the glyphs under the chevrons stay lit. Sometimes all the glyphs light up. Sometimes when the gate is inactive, it's completely dark, sometimes the glyphs are all lit...again.