2021 Virginia State election - Federal Beaurocracy and National Establishment vs. Everyone else.

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Sped Xing said:
Learning iambic pentameter when you're 16 doesn't mean you can't get a job when you're 18.
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Shit, didn't know what a gerund was in English until I learned Korean gerunds in language school. Surprising how much you learn about English when learning a foreign language.
 
Here's another correct opinion to piss people off:

If it was easier and more lucrative to become a schoolteacher, fewer of them would be pedophiles and tyrants.

Right now, needing a bachelors plus extra training means you need to be extremely motivated to go into schoolteaching. Sure, the best will make it through, but so will the people who will do ANYTHING in order to be put in a position of power over other people's children.

Those starry-eyed wonderful teachers would just be more successful if they didn't have to work so hard to get there, and with a bigger hiring pool, you could afford to fire more creeps.
 
Sped Xing said:
Right now, needing a bachelors plus extra training means you need to be extremely motivated to go into schoolteaching. Sure, the best will make it through, but so will the people who will do ANYTHING in order to be put in a position of power over other people's children.
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mostly lazy people become teachers, its a safe job, low hours and nobody cares if you dotn do good work. 99% of teachers would be fired from a subway for their lazyness.
 
Stoneheart said:
mostly lazy people become teachers, its a safe job, low hours and nobody cares if you dotn do good work. 99% of teachers would be fired from a subway for their lazyness.
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If you're not lazy, you burn out.

The route TO becoming a teacher, at least in the US, is a huge pain in the ass, and only motivated people do it.

It's kinda like what I've said elsewhere about how getting a CDL is such a pain that it creates a driver shortage despite truck driving being easy and profitable. I really don't care if people abuse trucks, though.
 
Sped Xing said:
If you're not lazy, you burn out.

The route TO becoming a teacher, at least in the US, is a huge pain in the ass, and only motivated people do it.

It's kinda like what I've said elsewhere about how getting a CDL is such a pain that it creates a driver shortage despite truck driving being easy and profitable. I really don't care if people abuse trucks, though.
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literally the opposite

there are some bureaucratic hurdles but compared to any other profession?

I have had to actively avoid becoming a teacher, it's constantly being shoved at me as a career possibility
 
barleyrugsoap said:
literally the opposite

there are some bureaucratic hurdles but compared to any other profession?

I have had to actively avoid becoming a teacher, it's constantly being shoved at me as a career possibility
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You gotta be kidding. An extra year of coursework to get a teacher's certification on top of a Bachelor's is something you have to "actively avoid?" Just how long are you planning on living?
 
Sped Xing said:
You gotta be kidding. An extra year of coursework to get a teacher's certification on top of a Bachelor's is something you have to "actively avoid?" Just how long are you planning on living?
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It’s not at all fucking difficult to get a bachelor’s degree in the U.S., and unlike things like medical school or graduate school you don’t actually need to do well in the subjects you took or for it to even be accredited to get the credential.

I’m not saying teachers are all complete morons, and from my experience they generally are decently smart, but it’s not a challenging career path. It really is the default white collar path if you didn’t do well enough in school/picked a bad degree/didn’t network properly to get a good job or doctorate program lined up out of school.

Teaching is to BA what nursing is to BS (albeit nursing is harder to get into).
 
George Lucas said:
It’s not at all fucking difficult to get a bachelor’s degree in the U.S., and unlike things like medical school or graduate school you don’t actually need to do well in the subjects you took or for it to even be accredited to get the credential.

I’m not saying teachers are all complete morons, and from my experience they generally are decently smart, but it’s not a challenging career path. It really is the default white collar path if you didn’t do well enough in school/picked a bad degree/didn’t network properly to get a good job or doctorate program lined up out of school.

Teaching is to BA what nursing is to BS.
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I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying you have to be smart to get a Bachelor's, or to go on to add in a teacher's certificate. I'm saying that 4-5 years of your life, or about a sixth of adulthood if you're lucky, is a major investment.

Imagine you had to do one enlistment in the military to get some job. How much motivation would someone need?

Now imagine that you only have that job waiting, not the GI Bill, Veteran's Land Board, and all the dicksucking the public has been offering vets since 1991. It's not *hard* to push a broom for four years, but at least the military pays you and will fix your teeth. You don't come out of an enlistment with 100 grand in debt with no equity.
 
Sped Xing said:
I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying you have to be smart to get a Bachelor's, or to go on to add in a teacher's certificate. I'm saying that 4-5 years of your life, or about a sixth of adulthood if you're lucky, is a major investment.

Imagine you had to do one enlistment in the military to get some job. How much motivation would someone need?

Now imagine that you only have that job waiting, not the GI Bill, Veteran's Land Board, and all the dicksucking the public has been offering vets since 1991. It's not *hard* to push a broom for four years, but at least the military pays you and will fix your teeth. You don't come out of an enlistment with 100 grand in debt with no equity.
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It’s not like those five years are solely devoted to studying. It’s literally no different from spending five years just working. Plus you can work part-time and it’s very common to work during the credential period. The people who become teachers either think it’s worth the debt, got scholarships/worked and so have no debt, or already have the debt and are just getting the credential because it’s basically their only option (sunk-cost education).

If it was a ‘major investment’, teachers wouldn’t get paid shit. It’s a low-risk, easy path and so you get paid accordingly.

You sound like someone who might have problems with doing clerical work like submitting a report on time and so staying focused and submitting to authority enough to get a bachelor’s seems like a fucking miracle to you. For a lot of people, this is not the case, and doing something like sweeping a broom instead for five years is utter hell for them. It’s a different state of mind and shouldn’t be generalized for the entire population.

I would rather spend literally fourteen years in academia hell clawing for a Ph.D. than volunteer myself to go shoot people for just a year. That’s just me. I know that there are people that think that joining the military is actually a fucking ‘investment’ for them. I try not to judge those people as I have not experienced the things they have.
 
"Five years of paying to attend classes and do honework is literally no different from getting paid for working." Okeydokey, artichokey.

For the record, I have an AS and a BA. I don't talk about them much because trucking is more profitable, farming is more interesting, and the Marine Corps was more entertaining.

You are correct about me not liking people who consider themselves "authority," though. I think you meant that as an insult, which is funny.
 
Sped Xing said:
"Five years of paying to attend classes and do honework is literally no different from getting paid for working." Okeydokey, artichokey.

For the record, I have an AS and a BA. I don't talk about them much because trucking is more profitable, farming is more interesting, and the Marine Corps was more entertaining.

You are correct about me not liking people who consider themselves "authority," though. I think you meant that as an insult, which is funny.
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In terms of time spent, no it’s no different. You’re either going to spend the time working or studying. Now consider this:

1. You’re opposed to military service because you don’t want to kill people.

2. You enjoy learning and you do well in school.

3. You don’t have any particular skills.

4. You don’t enjoy manual labor.

Why would going to school for five years be difficult? The only argument left is about debt, but teachers can get their loans forgiven, so that’s really a non-issue.

You seem to be bent that working as a trucker or some other boring-as-hell job is the optimal choice for everyone, and that’s simply retarded, and you look retarded when you say things like becoming a teacher is some huge life-wasting investment, when compared to Ph.D.’s and M.D.’s it’s nothing. It’s all a matter of perspective. You look at one more year for a credential as hell. A lot of people don’t. Some people enjoy that time of their life. Some people even enjoy their time getting their Ph.D. They make the most of it by attending seminars, conferences, etc. Education is not just a means to an end. It’s something that is actually fun for a lot of people.
 
George Lucas said:
In terms of time spent, no it’s no different. You’re either going to spend the time working or studying. Now consider this:

1. You’re opposed to military service because you don’t want to kill people.

2. You enjoy learning and you do well in school.

3. You don’t have any particular skills.

4. You don’t enjoy manual labor.

Why would going to school for five years be difficult? The only argument left is about debt, but teachers can get their loans forgiven, so that’s really a non-issue.

You seem to be bent that working as a trucker or some other boring-as-hell job is the optimal choice for everyone, and that’s simply exceptional, and you look exceptional when you say things like becoming a teacher is some huge life-wasting investment, when compared to Ph.D.’s and M.D.’s it’s nothing. It’s all a matter of perspective. You look at one more year for a credential as hell. A lot of people don’t. Some people enjoy that time of their life. Some people even enjoy their time getting their Ph.D. They make the most of it by attending seminars, conferences, etc. Education is not just a means to an end. It’s something that is actually fun for a lot of people.
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You're so mad, and your reading comprehension is so poor. Go sit in the corner.

1) I was using a four year military enlistment as an equivalent barrier to entry to a four year degree, you absolute unit of density. I was in no way saying "join the military." I never, ever recommend joining the military. Feel free to spend the entire day searching my post history if you think you can find a single instance where I said "everyone should join the military."

2) Durr me no enjoy learning. Me am just dum dum.

3) Your mother has some particular skills.

4) Nobody enjoys manual labor. That's why you have to pay people to do it.

Going to school for five years is a barrier to entry, holey underwear. Five years is a long time, and I can tell you from painful experience that people with bachelor's degrees are no more well-rounded or interested in the world than people without. This country is full of mouthbreathers who think they're Socrates because they got seconds on the High School experience.

In theory, college could be a place where really smart people work together to learn and learn about learning. In practice, it's just a handy way to divide society between those who have the resources to delay making money for years "smart," or "middle class," and those utter fools who don't have the support network to spend eight semesters falling asleep to powerpoint.


Nor have I ever said trucking or other boring-ass jobs are the optimal for everyone. I've recommended that young, unmarried men consider driving a truck. Everyone who likes eating should take a lucrative job with relatively low barriers to entry, if they aren't already dead set on casting bronzes or sorting artifacts or sexing rats.

"Nobody should get a worthless degree" does not mean "all degrees are worthless." "Five years of college is a bigger barrier to entry than OJT to make the same or better money" does not mean "it can't be done."

You've proved my point for me multiple times by saying "people that really want to be teachers can do it." Yes, highly motivated people will overcome that barrier to entry. Nobody ever considers teaching third grade as a simple job, and that's a problem, because it means you select against plenty of people who could teach snot-noses long division. That's not hard. Requiring 5 years of training doesn't make the teachers smarter. It narrows the recruitment pool.

I'm not some boomerposter saying everyone should drive a truck, and I have, in fact, read upwards of three books. Four, if you count my audio version of "A Great Day for Up."
 
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Just give me really stupid students who constantly lie about what I say to them.

We both deserve tophats, but I maintain that I at least was making any sense.
 
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Sped Xing said:
You're so mad, and your reading comprehension is so poor. Go sit in the corner.

1) I was using a four year military enlistment as an equivalent barrier to entry to a four year degree, you absolute unit of density. I was in no way saying "join the military." I never, ever recommend joining the military. Feel free to spend the entire day searching my post history if you think you can find a single instance where I said "everyone should join the military."

2) Durr me no enjoy learning. Me am just dum dum.

3) Your mother has some particular skills.

4) Nobody enjoys manual labor. That's why you have to pay people to do it.

Going to school for five years is a barrier to entry, holey underwear. Five years is a long time, and I can tell you from painful experience that people with bachelor's degrees are no more well-rounded or interested in the world than people without. This country is full of mouthbreathers who think they're Socrates because they got seconds on the High School experience.

In theory, college could be a place where really smart people work together to learn and learn about learning. In practice, it's just a handy way to divide society between those who have the resources to delay making money for years "smart," or "middle class," and those utter fools who don't have the support network to spend eight semesters falling asleep to powerpoint.


Nor have I ever said trucking or other boring-ass jobs are the optimal for everyone. I've recommended that young, unmarried men consider driving a truck. Everyone who likes eating should take a lucrative job with relatively low barriers to entry, if they aren't already dead set on casting bronzes or sorting artifacts or sexing rats.

"Nobody should get a worthless degree" does not mean "all degrees are worthless." "Five years of college is a bigger barrier to entry than OJT to make the same or better money" does not mean "it can't be done."

You've proved my point for me multiple times by saying "people that really want to be teachers can do it." Yes, highly motivated people will overcome that barrier to entry. Nobody ever considers teaching third grade as a simple job, and that's a problem, because it means you select against plenty of people who could teach snot-noses long division. That's not hard. Requiring 5 years of training doesn't make the teachers smarter. It narrows the recruitment pool.

I'm not some boomerposter saying everyone should drive a truck, and I have, in fact, read upwards of three books. Four, if you count my audio version of "A Great Day for Up."
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I’m the mad one?
 
George Lucas said:
I’m the mad one?
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You want pulling yourself up by your bootstraps to be easy because then you can feel better about having life on easy mode because mumsy and dadsy handed you things on a silver platter.

I was in the Army and served long enough to qualify for the troops-to-teachers program, but I couldn't use it (even though I happily would have, as I love educating).

While you consider this, I will say, I deployed for a year to one of the most heavily mortared bases in Iraq. Try to imagine mortar shells dropping on you on a weekly basis -- some of them as close as 100 meters away -- and then you have to leave that and still hold down a job and do all the work of getting your college degree to be 'worthy' of becoming a teacher.

My military contract was to get the GI Bill just so I could afford college, and when I got there I had entitled professors with exactly your attitude tell me I couldn't understand poverty after risking my life for the money to get my education. They said this for no other reason than our skin color was the same and THEY had been handed everything they could ever ask for. THEY had never experienced poverty, so no one with their same skin tone could possibly know hardship. It's exactly your argument and made for the same reasons.

None of us are mad. We're deeply disappointed that you have so little humanity and empathy that you're taking this stance. Have you no decency, sir? At long last, have you no decency?
 
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