2021 Virginia State election - Federal Beaurocracy and National Establishment vs. Everyone else.

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one of the things people might get out of this whole stupid discussion is how effective decades of shitting on America has been

people are like "hurr just teach your kids to read and add how hard is that"

the creation of a literate cultured Western civilization on this continent out of absolutely nothing was a hard thing to do. it was not an easy thing to to do. and it's going to be hard to recover it if we ever even can.
 
barleyrugsoap said:
I don't think economics is a science, but it will explain to you what will happen if you try to hire a calculus teacher at the same salary as a kindergarten teacher.
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I don't think I said you should try to do so.

However, you do not need a massive bureaucracy in order to get a competent calculus teacher, nor does the existing apparatus get you competent teachers.
 
Sped Xing said:
That's a manufactured problem, much like the supply chain process.

What you *actually* need to teach a score of chilluns their Rs: a blackboard, some seats, paper or slates for the littles, and someone who knows the Eibisidi song.

All this shit with hundreds-dollar textbooks, accreditation, sports stadiums, teacher retirement programs, and so on is legislated pork. None of it increases literacy. Evidence? Read some letters from ww1 draftees some time.

"Think of the children" is right up there with "support the troops" as magic words to divert stolen money to your criminal friends. Da Troops don't need a TGI Fridays in buttfuckistan and dem younguns don't need a library of fag porn.
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Parents need to be wary of Dunning-Kruger syndrome and get help for teaching some subjects if it's something they don't know about, but if you can teach your kid to tie their shoes and use the toilet, you can teach them reading, writing, basic math, etc.

We have several generations of adults that think you have to have brick-and-mortar school buildings for kids to learn. (Where did those adults get those ideas?) Schools are mostly about crowd control and a tiny bit of study. Homeschool families can get through the same curriculum in 1/10 of the time it takes public school teachers, because they can focus on the work.

https://hslda.org/ HomeSchool Legal Defense Association has lots of info on the legalities, and maybe check with local Dept of Education guidelines to be sure.

Sorry about the ramble but I hate the bureaucracy and nonsense of the American public school system with a passion and will help get the word out about other methods any chance I get.
 
FatalTater said:
Parents need to be wary of Dunning-Kruger syndrome and get help for teaching some subjects if it's something they don't know about, but if you can teach your kid to tie their shoes and use the toilet, you can teach them reading, writing, basic math, etc.

We have several generations of adults that think you have to have brick-and-mortar school buildings for kids to learn. (Where did those adults get those ideas?) Schools are mostly about crowd control and a tiny bit of study. Homeschool families can get through the same curriculum in 1/10 of the time it takes public school teachers, because they can focus on the work.

https://hslda.org/ HomeSchool Legal Defense Association has lots of info on the legalities, and maybe check with local Dept of Education guidelines to be sure.

Sorry about the ramble but I hate the bureaucracy and nonsense of the American public school system with a passion and will help get the word out about other methods any chance I get.
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you realize people are on their third generation of this bullshit now

"lol just homeschool here's the HSLDA website" is not enough of an answer to the bureaucracy and nonsense.

The HSLDA was founded in 1983 *in Virginia.* Virginia is one of the top homeschooling states in the US. And yet....
 
Titos said:
This is why the education system should be structured so for elementary school you learn basic math, reading, science. Middle School and High School you take mostly electives that are what you are actually interested in learning. Imagine if in High School most of your classes were about Electronics, Programming, Welding, etc. You'd have alot more kids who could get a good job straight out of high school. Instead they force Jimmy to read through whatever was on Oprahs reading list when he would rather be doing anything else.
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Good intentions, but this is a very bad idea. Children are stupid. Even young adults (high schoolers) are very stupid compared to older adults. They are too inexperienced to make a choice as to what they should learn about. The electives you describe can be picked up by hobby (for a wealthy child) or by apprenticeship (for a poor child), and should not be provided by any kind of publicly funded school system, at least not without a primary liberal arts education.

The problem with broad education today is that too much poorly written, unexciting stories are being presented to classes because they come from ‘diverse’ authors. Where once was the gallant tales of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table there is now dry poetry about how shitty the author imagined picking cotton to be. Math is also plagued by a desire to introduce advanced topics too early without allowing for advanced problem solving, instead of focusing on basic arithmetic more while introducing advanced problem solving (mental math, estimation. elimination, logic, etc.). Science, at least, does not seem to be as problematic, but because of the issue with math, there’s too much focus on memorization and not enough on applied math, and funding is always a problem for making engaging hands-on experiments. History (or ‘social studies’) is plagued with revisionism, but thankfully most school boards are pretty lenient about how much teachers can deviate from the curriculum so you have a decent amount of history teachers who try to ‘inject’ as much real history and practical political theory as possible.

Smart kids will naturally be interested in a broad education because smart people generally enjoy learning. It’s the dumb kids that seem to need more of a ‘focused’ primary education and in my opinion we shouldn’t be paying for their specializations when the free market can do that for us for free.

Why is a liberal arts education at the primary level? Won’t he just specialize in college? Because a smart kid will grow into a smart adult who will have a lot of influence and a lot of people under him, and so he needs to have a broad baseline education so he has some understanding of contexts outside his domain.

The person who is smart enough to become an expert at something while also having a huge grasp of the world at large is the ideal educated man, in my opinion.
 
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not william stenchever said:
When I saw that 8th graders in 1890 were doing more on their finals than I had to do to get into college it really fucking hit me that we are in a bad way, and it also hit me that the powers that be prefer us to be too stupid to function.

Note that Woodrow Wilson who got us into fucking WW1 in the first place was also the nigger who federalized education as well as establishing the federal reserve and the income tax.

Editing to doublepost: WW1 would have been best left as an exceptional individual fight between European powers
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Yeah, but then Mr Rothschild wouldn't have got Palestine! Britain may even default!
Never forget the Lusitania was secretly carrying arms. Heck, it's almost like the whole thing was part of a plan to hedge a massive stake in the allied war effort.
 
FatalTater said:
Parents need to be wary of Dunning-Kruger syndrome and get help for teaching some subjects if it's something they don't know about, but if you can teach your kid to tie their shoes and use the toilet, you can teach them reading, writing, basic math, etc.
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All that is required is to teach the child to read and to think, from there they can self educate if you instill a love of learning and the skillset to further themselves. The mind is a fire to be kindled, not a vessel to be filled. Of course having community to help you is a big boon, our local community all pitch in to help each other in small group settings. Nothing brings history to life like having someone's great grandpa tell everyone how it was, for example. (Plus he's got their German coming along really well too!) We have parents passionate about and skilled in the arts, technical fields, business and philosophy. Everything that should be covered in a well rounded education up to college is either here in our brains or is easily accessible to us, and filling in the learning gaps with our kids is not only a good technique but a great way to deepen our familial bonds.

Nothing is beyond the power of your will and community!
 
A_throwaway_name62919 said:
Nah, I'm talking about practicalities, not fluff like stadiums. Long gone are the days when people could get by with a one room school house filled with students from multiple grades taught by one teacher, or students who only need to know how to read, write, and do basic math. Nowadays at minimum you need:
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there's an argument to made (which I assume is @Sped Xing's as well) how much good education has to cost and how much you really need. of course everyone will say "only the best for my kid" - but how do you define best? ask a child, a parent and an admin what makes a "good" (so not even best) teacher and you'll get wildly different opinions.
next is the question what you're actually paying for, and I don't mean the content. broad education is nice - but only to a certain degree, and even more pointless when you whole future career path will specialize you even further. ask any biologist how much he or she remembers history. or a more obvious example: secondary languages.
don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it should be specialized right from the start, you need to offer a broad bouquet dumb as fuck teens can figure out what they want to do the rest of their life and there's an overlap you'd want the context in, but that choice should be done earlier than college, because as @George Lucas pointed out the content itself is getting more dense and pushed further and further. however, following that line why are trades less focused in schools then? broad is nice and all but if it intentionally skips over large parts I wouldn't exactly call it broad.

another thing you have to remember is that burger education is fucked by design (not a matter of better or worse, everything has pros and cons), but that demand of "only the best for my child" was over time supplied by squeezing parents and students harder and harder by costs. you're willing to pay for it, right?
for teaching you don't really need elite universities (yes, they will be have better teachers and facilities, but again, how much of that do you really need? networking opportunities have nothing to do with teaching), meaning you wouldn't need exorbitant tuition fees, which then would give the government no need to sell you 6 digit loans (which basically came out the logical reason that any government wants and needs smart citizens so it has an interest in supporting it).

and that's before you get into the actual content itself.

TLDR: it's a trainwreck that would need a lot of longterm effort to really fix - so that's not gonna happen, ever.
 
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George Lucas said:
Good intentions, but this is a very bad idea. Children are stupid. Even young adults (high schoolers) are very stupid compared to older adults. They are too inexperienced to make a choice as to what they should learn about.
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How many adults have 100K in student loan debt for a degree they no longer have interest in, much less can find a job in?
 
The undeniable fact is kids have to want to learn. You can do everything from flashy lights to beating them, but they have to have that internal motivation. Without it, your just wasting their time and yours.

I've found both due to personal experience and observation that education has to be internally motivated. Simple as. If a kid is into history he's going to be eating everything up in the history lecture and more. If he isn't, he's going to be bored shitless and forget about it the minute he walks out the door.

Of course, schools have to teach everything to everyone, but the fact remains, the drive to learn is either there or it isn't.
 
Guys you are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy over thinking this. All you have to do separate kids into

1. Kids/families that want to learn.
2. Kids/families that don't give a shit.

That's it. Thomas Jefferson, Advanced Placement, it really all boiled down to parents that really cared doing the leg work to get their kids to push themselves to excel. Give a general education and let the kids that want to excel do it in a separate environment that isn't slowing any one down.
 
Sped Xing said:
I don't think I said you should try to do so.

However, you do not need a massive bureaucracy in order to get a competent calculus teacher, nor does the existing apparatus get you competent teachers.
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Agree. Why can military members successfully teach others with maybe a six-week instructor course, and it takes years in college for some kid to become a teacher? I know, from personal experience. Might take a little longer for prospective K-12 teachers, but they don't need years of training. Can also tell you that many colleges/universities use professionals from the business world as adjunct instructors. These people have little in the way of instructor training but seem to get the job done.

Oh, a very interesting article about CRT and VA schools.


archive.ph

Critical race theory pervasive in Virginia teacher training materials…

archived 10 Nov 2021 15:51:29 UTC
archive.ph archive.ph
 
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