I think BP is a safer audience for discussion about the culture, ways, nuances and fucked up parts of the philosophies. And to laugh. Outside the BP, it will get shit up with politics and all sorts of nonsense that isn't fun or interesting to discuss about the topic. Also, quiverfull is a topic often discussed in typically female places like freejinger or dugar snark, so it probably seemed to be a good fit here.Those are my guesses, you'd have to ask the OP to know for sure.
I'm not sure Josh needs his own thread, the duggars are quiverfull royalty, and if something else happens in the QF world while the josh creepshow is going on, the josh talk won't prevent the other discussions. And hopefully at the end of his trial he'll be locked away for many years, and we'll go back to discussing fundies when interesting ones come up.
Foreshadowing from the hearing suggests he is going for the, "It wasn't me, I was set up," defense. Possible scapegoats are the one brown man who was on the car lot, one of his brothers or even Anna. Several news sites are reporting that the feds were tipped off by the local police. That means that he was probably ratted out ergo somebody knew what he was up to or set him up. It could also be that the feds have trackers on every copy of that video on the internet and the local police story is to protect that info from the public.
There is still the possibility he cuts a deal. As discovery goes on and they see all the evidence the prosecution has, his lawyer will might try to convince him to make a deal. His parents and wife should too. It would be a humiliating spectacle for the family. I hope the prosecution offers nothing less than 25 years. The fact that it was hurtcore has to play a major role in sentencing. For the first time I have considered that perhaps CP offences ought to be graded with nudity on the low end and snuff at the top. It sounds crazy, even to me but this situation has opened my eyes. All pedos are vile but some are way worse.
Since these are federal charges, the US attorneys prosecuting the case have fairly strict guidelines about what they can and can’t offer, barring a cooperation agreement. Unless he can give them dirt on bigger fish, they can’t offer him less than the minimum sentence as determined by the handy calculation that corresponds to the charges to which he’s pleading.
(Source: the Paul Manafort trial. I learned a lot about federal criminal court via that trial.)
It could also be that the feds have trackers on every copy of that video on the internet and the local police story is to protect that info from the public.
The feds like to take over sites that host/distribute illegal materials and use them to track everyone that accesses them. This sick freak was boned the moment he clicked the link sending him to the video. Funny story I heard was that the regulars of a site caught wind that the feds had taken over when the sites performance significantly increased overnight.
Since these are federal charges, the US attorneys prosecuting the case have fairly strict guidelines about what they can and can’t offer, barring a cooperation agreement. Unless he can give them dirt on bigger fish, they can’t offer him less than the minimum sentence as determined by the handy calculation that corresponds to the charges to which he’s pleading.
(Source: the Paul Manafort trial. I learned a lot about federal criminal court via that trial.)
This whole family is like a really gross container sitting by your garden shed for years collecting rainwater and dirt and insects and at some point, you need to drag that business onto the grass, dump out all the horrible scum and spider colonies accumulating in it, and let the sun start disinfecting it before you come back with an industrial scrubber.
This family needs to be dragged out into the sunlight, dumped out, and scrubbed until all the vileness runs off it.
Letting this sick fuck loose on bail is not only stupid, it's dangerous. The stress from his arrest could trigger him to molest/assault one of his own children, or he could go full family annihilator to spare them the 'indignity' of his conviction. The kids wouldn't be safe just because they're inside the main house with Jim Bob and Meech.
I hope they have a squad car parked right across the street from this "Family Friend".
I agree. The first thing I thought when this guy got released to his family is that murder-suicide is a huge possibility for someone who knows he got caught with terrible CP and is facing years of jail and lifelong hatred and shaming from everyone else.
I was under the impression the other info came from Faulkner as well but then was redacted later on the sub because people were getting upset. If it is incorrect info, I apologize.
The two bits of info that were redacted from the sub post on the bond hearing, involving the prosecution’s first witness direct: Special Agent Gerald Faulkner, which used to be under spoilers, are visible if you view the source on the archive for the page:
On May 14 and 15, detective was able to download two files:
First file two prepubescent females 7-9 age laying on top of each other. Male adult is seen penetrating the children.
Second file contained 64 images of a prepubescent child, I missed how many were pornographic. One image involved a children approximate 7-9 years old spreading her vagina.
I believe both his parents and his wife are 100% complicit in this. His parents because they blamed, shamed, and punished their daughters for "making" Josh molest them because they tempted him with their fully clothed bodies in the safety of their own home (and even rooms) while effectively giving him a useless slap on the wrist. They sent him to fundie boot camp where he was told he was a bad boy for sinning (but it wasn't his fault because his sisters made him do it and if he prays enough he'll be forgiven), and had him talk to (male) church elders who told him he was a bad boy for sinning (but it wasn't his fault because his sisters made him do it and if he prays enough he'll be forgiven), and had him spend some time with a state trooper that was conveniently a fundie family friend for a "stern talk." Said state trooper was later busted for CP of his own so it has been generally assumed he told Josh how not to get caught next time. Apparently that was how to download CP instead, only he didn't know the secret to not getting caught, thankfully. Josh has never face any real repercussions for anything he has ever done because he was born into a fringe Christian cult where he was free from any real "sin", responsibility, or even helping out around the house solely because he was born with a penis.
As for his wife, yes I know she has no free will, has been taught to believe that the word of her father or husband is also the word of God, and that divorce is an unforgivable sin worse than conventional crimes. But even if she didn't know the details of his teenage "sins" before 2015, her father probably did before making the decision to have her date and marry this scumbag. And she most certainly did know after the news dropped in 2015 and chose to stay with a man who was a known incestual child predator, even after being offered help by family members who got out of the fundie lifestyle and assured her that it would be okay to divorce Josh and get the fuck out. At that time she made the choice that her soul was worth more than the wellbeing of her children. That makes her just as bad as his parents in my eyes.
The sad thing is that most of these fundamentalist woman (and some of the men) truly love God and want to do what they perceive to be 'right' but just like catholics they twist the word of God into the word of man and they put their trust, faith, and moral value in men.
Josh Duggar is a prime example of this, purely because he was both Male and the First Born child he had privilege that none of the others got (not even the younger boys), and so he was given positions of power over his sisters, and was quickly forgiven for his 'mistakes' because 'men can't help themselves but woman can'.
This sort of disgusting lack of consequence from his parents made Josh (who clearly already had major issues by 16) into a monster.
Piece of shit man-baby never got in trouble for lusting after children or his own kin, So yeah, I'm blaming them.
The fact that their fucked up earthly value system thought it better that he touched his sisters rather than seeking sex from a consenting non relation? And they try to say, "but God sees all sins equal!"
God always says, in fact Jesus said himself, to obey the law of the land in which you dwell. It's why you pay taxes, it's why you don't molest kids. Because it's morally wrong AND illegal. Which is worse to God? Molesting your baby sister or having premarital sex with another girl from outside of your household?
“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.”
Which is more forgivable and less damaging?
It shouldn't be difficult to answer.
The feds like to take over sites that host/distribute illegal materials and use them to track everyone that accesses them. This sick freak was boned the moment he clicked the link sending him to the video. Funny story I heard was that the regulars of a site caught wind that the feds had taken over when the sites performance significantly increased overnight.
My boyfriend works in IT. After I read the testimony to him regarding the bail hearing and the facts about what he downloaded, when etc, he seems to think that Josh was seeding the files on BitTorrent door two days and that’s how he got caught.
My boyfriend works in IT. After I read the testimony to him regarding the bail hearing and the facts about what he downloaded, when etc, he seems to think that Josh was seeding the files on BitTorrent door two days and that’s how he got caught.
My boyfriend works in IT. After I read the testimony to him regarding the bail hearing and the facts about what he downloaded, when etc, he seems to think that Josh was seeding the files on BitTorrent door two days and that’s how he got caught.
Could you explain this in non-IT terms? Or tell me of a good place to find information in simple terms? I know a little about the TOR, but seeding and BitTorrent doors are beyond me.
I'm intrigued by all of this stuff.
Could you explain this in non-IT terms? Or tell me of a good place to find information in simple terms? I know a little about the TOR, but seeding and BitTorrent doors are beyond me.
I'm intrigued by all of this stuff.
Basically, he downloaded the file. And he did the internet version of photocopying and advertising it so someone else can download it faster, in the future. Although it's not exactly advertising. It's literally uploading a new copy of a file to a server that already has an archive of it. He was probably found out because the feds might have one of these servers and a technician noticed it was receiving CP.
Sure it's an retarded move, but it's best to let nature run it's course, at times.
Could you explain this in non-IT terms? Or tell me of a good place to find information in simple terms? I know a little about the TOR, but seeding and BitTorrent doors are beyond me.
I'm intrigued by all of this stuff.
I wonder if they'd gotten him proper treatment as a teen, if it could've turned him around? I'd imagine the prognosis for treatment for teen sex offenders is a bit better than for adults because their brains are still developing.
Unfortunately people can still turn into sex pests no matter how they're raised, regardless of whether they themselves were abused or not. This is one of the things that scares me the most about potentially becoming a mother in the future. What happens if my son grows up to be Jimmy Savile 2.0 no matter what and we get blamed for it?
However, if you detect that something may be "wrong" with your child and even witness proof of it, you should at least attempt to correct the behavior, seek treatment for the child(ren), and basically pull out all stops in possible avenues to stop it. In that case, at least you tried, which we know Boohbah and Meech didn't really do. Like you said, the question is, though, while slaps on the wrist, victim blaming, and backwoodsy Christian bootcamp is far from the correct way to go about it, what really is the best way to combat this, especially in the modern era? Is it too late once the preteen starts to rape and molest?
My mom works in discipline at a K-12 school. Two years ago she got questioned because a kid (5th grade) she had custody of in in-school-suspension was accessing porn on the chromebook he had for classwork - this fifth grader apparently learned how to bypass school firewalls and site blockers and she had no idea or reason to suspect. He showed it to another boy in ISS, a teacher's son, who told his mom. She hits me up a few months ago with the news this now 7th grader has been removed from his home, the school, and sent away because he had started raping/molesting his two little sisters who informed one of their teachers about it. Apparently the mom knew, and "tried to stop it" but evidently it didn't work. So you have a child who is apparently techy at a young age, and therefore always 1 step ahead of his parents in terms of tech literacy, being exposed to porn at a young age (because as we know there's no negative side effects of porn you prudes), who then goes on emulate what he views on his kid sisters because the viewing is no longer enough. It's probably too late for him and he'll be in jail for rape as an adult. How do we really fix this? AFAIK the parents (or mom) aren't fundies just probably white trash.
E: I also laughed like an idiot at him SEEDING it for two days. My god.
So upthread someone mentioned Josh was once staying with a Trooper’s family and that man also got done for CP? It was mentioned that instead of sage advice, the trooper gave Josh on advice for how to better hide his kiddie vid viewing.
Based on what we know...Josh is a bit of a boomer in the tech department, yet somehow put a Linux partition in his system to get around the Covenant Eyes software.
He has the savvy to actually find legit DD downloads, yet is stupid enough to seed it to the world for two days after torrenting.
Ffs the man signed up for fuckin AshleyMadison to try and cheat.
Much of this info lines up perfectly with the image of a man who isn’t good with computers, but WAS abruptly spending time in the home of a fellow chomo who was later also collared for CP. And after that visit, Josh appeared to suddenly upgrade his illicit activities, could suddenly partition his secrets away from surveillance software, access dark web torrent sites, etc.
He didn’t seem to understand how a lot of this worked as a whole, rather he only had specific instructions for doing specific things. He could partition his PC to hide from Covenant Eyes, but still did not fully understand how computers work. He thought simply deleting incriminating files made them erase forever. The investigators found over a hundred incriminating photos that Josh had just evidently dragged to the Recycle Bin, then emptied it and called it good.
He could download files from a torrent, but seemed unaware of what “seeding” even was, or he would have known to stop it immediately.
Right, so, let’s just go ahead and agree that the other pedo taught Josh this stuff. Wow. He sure learned his lesson.
Unfortunately people can still turn into sex pests no matter how they're raised, regardless of whether they themselves were abused or not. This is one of the things that scares me the most about potentially becoming a mother in the future. What happens if my son grows up to be Jimmy Savile 2.0 no matter what and we get blamed for it?
However, if you detect that something may be "wrong" with your child and even witness proof of it, you should at least attempt to correct the behavior, seek treatment for the child(ren), and basically pull out all stops in possible avenues to stop it. In that case, at least you tried, which we know Boohbah and Meech didn't really do. Like you said, the question is, though, while slaps on the wrist, victim blaming, and backwoodsy Christian bootcamp is far from the correct way to go about it, what really is the best way to combat this, especially in the modern era? Is it too late once the preteen starts to rape and molest?
My mom works in discipline at a K-12 school. Two years ago she got questioned because a kid (5th grade) she had custody of in in-school-suspension was accessing porn on the chromebook he had for classwork - this fifth grader apparently learned how to bypass school firewalls and site blockers and she had no idea or reason to suspect. He showed it to another boy in ISS, a teacher's son, who told his mom. She hits me up a few months ago with the news this now 7th grader has been removed from his home, the school, and sent away because he had started raping/molesting his two little sisters who informed one of their teachers about it. Apparently the mom knew, and "tried to stop it" but evidently it didn't work. So you have a child who is apparently techy at a young age, and therefore always 1 step ahead of his parents in terms of tech literacy, being exposed to porn at a young age (because as we know there's no negative side effects of porn you prudes), who then goes on emulate what he views on his kid sisters because the viewing is no longer enough. It's probably too late for him and he'll be in jail for rape as an adult. How do we really fix this? AFAIK the parents (or mom) aren't fundies just probably white trash.
What someone is exposed to as a child actually does figure into their eventual sexual desires.
Josh was banned from seeing normal adult female bodies. He was isolated in his weird fundie home, he was the oldest, home schooled. All the girls he could access and become fixated on were all his younger sisters. The “older” girls are taught modesty, but the younger ones are innocent and oblivious to Brother Josh staring at them or touching them. It’s also easier to do things to the younger ones and make them stay quiet. As creepy as it is I think the only sexual outlet he had as an adolescent was focusing on younger sisters.
Some teen girls that occasionally let him kiss or get close, maybe a few old playboy magazines of VS catalogs to keep hidden under his bed probably could have prevented some of his pedo lust. The repression was so complete for normal teen sexual exploration, even rather innocent stuff, that he sought out the only available subjects - little sisters.
I agree. The first thing I thought when this guy got released to his family is that murder-suicide is a huge possibility for someone who knows he got caught with terrible CP and is facing years of jail and lifelong hatred and shaming from everyone else.
Josh won't do anything like that, because I'm sure he feels no shame for what he did.
He probably thinks everyone is overreacting and is annoyed by the inconvenience of court.
