The Outer Worlds becomes Epic exclusive - Because of fucking course it did

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Keter Prime said:
And the best (worst) part is that any moron can tell you why doing this is a bad idea, you're not gonna pry people off of Steam when it's painfully obvious that they're better platform, all you're doing is wasting money by attempting to keep Steam's audience on EGS for the immediate future.

The second that stream of exclusives stops, people are gonna go back to Steam without a second thought because the more money you've spent buying exclusives the less money spent on developing your store's features, and thus not really giving people any reason to stay on any longer than they should.

And all of this is assuming the exclusives you're buying are actually bringing in enough money.
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But don't you understaaand, Epic can improve as a store, it's not like they had over a decade to watch their main competitor and implement the same features before launch. Newell said it himself, if the distribution platform is garbage and pull delays, people will start to pirate or move elsewhere. Longterm solution is to improve, which they have shoved to the side in favour of buying exclusivity rights for one year.

This isn't like GOG or Origin which is a developer taking care of its own digital distribution, this is a company taking other games which are not under them, and making it a nuisance for the consumer who isn't a 13 year old Fortnite player. If I want to play those exclusives, which are going to come out on my preferred distribution system in a year, I need to download the store, create my account to play that specific game on a more terrible version of the original store which has all my other games. Then when it comes to your preferred system a year late, you have to buy it again. Who is going to do that?

You wouldn't invest in an inferior phone just to use a couple of specific apps when those apps will come out a year later, and you can get bootleg versions of it on your preferred phone, so why would people do that here?
 
Jaimas said:
Let's be clear here: What Epic is doing right now isn't legitimate competition. They're throwing cash incentives at devs to get them to jump ship, which is ultimately unsustainable in the long term even with Fortnite printing cash. History shows that temporary exclusivity isn't enough to get someone to jump ship for a new platform when the current one works just fine, and they'll wait for ones that will fit the platform they prefer rather than switch, even if it's months or more out. Accepting Epic's Faustian bargain also hedges you out of a larger market (EGS' userbase vs Steam+More) and potentially more sales, so literally the cash incentive is the only reason the devs are buying in.

You have a situation brewing that in no ways is a boon for the consumer, Even if you choose to discount the Tencent angle, the ongoing spyware issue, the fact that Epic is feature-crippled compared to even Origin and Uplay, and the fact that the platform is being masturbated over by the same sad fucks who shit bricks of panic over the XBox One years ago, the fact that Epic was openly anti-consumer from the word go and shows no respect whatsoever for its customers kind of does a lot to tell one what to expect here.
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This is a good post, but to add on to it.

This isn't a strictly "what store do I buy this from" issue, either. Steam would have to do something massively awful to get people to move off now; as most people have a library of several hundred games on it collected over several years. It's very hard to compete with even if the two platforms were similar (and they aren't) when you have several hundred dollars already tied into the older one. I can maybe see (and already see) people using both platforms but using EGS as a "Fortnite Launcher" and then never thinking of it beyond that (and feel free to substitue "Fortnite" for whatever 1 or 2 games you like on there) the same way people deal with playing Bethesda games, Ubisoft games, or EA games.

Steam, though basically a monopoly, has defenders because it isn't a pile of garbage - primarily because the CEO is smart enough to realize that even with a monopoly they are still (and always will be) competing with piracy. They've made huge strides that they didn't really need to make just to stay competitive and shaped what we all consider to a PC game store. You can buy steam keys basically anywhere and aren't locked in to the store to do so, there's not much in the way of invasive DRM, you can play from your PC basically anywhere in your house (steam link being built into most TVs), they have pretty good sales, a good return policy, an integrated workshop, integrated voice chat, decent library sharing, a decent collection of first party games, and considering the alternatives - a pretty good review system. Most of the things they've done have been good for the greater PC gaming ecosystem and it's grown pretty large as a result.

EGS is pretty new and is already doing damage instead of growing the ecosystem and the effects are going to be felt for a while. Exclusive and huge cash deals are good for developers in the short term, but for games that aren't released it actually damages the consumer's ability to "vote with your dollar". Even if The Outer Worlds is really bad (and it could be), EGS has given Obsidian it's money back and then some. It's creating a scenario where game could in theory sell 0 copies and be a success which really upends the entire point of a sales model; which is not an environment that fosters quality products - and we are not at a time where a ton of quality products are coming out. EGS has technically made it so Zoe Quinn has worked on a financially successful game (Solar Ash Kingdom) despite the game not even being past the announcement stage. It has incentiveizied developers (who probably should know better) to market to the games store instead of the customers (Metro, Phoenix Point) and that isn't going to foster community in the long run.

I realize that EGS has no moral responsibility to become a responsible citizen in the PC Gaming space, but it seems like they're intent on burning the whole thing down to rule over the ashes (and then leave) but we're the ones that will have to deal with the aftermath. More than anything else (the chinese spyware, for reference) but the idea of untested games being given huge piles of cash just seems like a way to get a large flood of even lower quality kickstarter tier games. Imagine a world where Mighty Number 9 got even more cash than it did, or Dream Daddy, or "Pound me in the Butt : The Chuck Tingle Game", or Yandare Simulator, or any other garbage game. It's not good in the long run.
 
With this drama going on in this thread, I have two questions:

1. People talk about exclusives. What about the Wii U? It boasted exclusives but failed pretty bad that even Nintendo poked fun of it.

2. Does Steam spy on user data compared with Epic?
 
Alan Pardew said:
With this drama going on in this thread, I have two questions:

1. People talk about exclusives. What about the Wii U? It boasted exclusives but failed pretty bad that even Nintendo poked fun of it.

2. Does Steam spy on user data compared with Epic?
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1. "Exclusives" are a bit of a catch all, but in the case of EGS we're referring to third-party exclusives. Nintendo makes games for Nintendo systems, Sony for Playstation, Microsoft for Xbox and those are first-party exclusives. Most people wouldn't expect a Pokemon game on PlayStation 5, for example. Most of the "exclusives" on the EGS store aren't made by Epic, but are just bought to be "timed" exclusives - a practice people already kind of hate Microsoft for doing with the Xbox 1 recently.

Moving back to the Wii U, it did fail pretty hard but the exclusive games were hardly the reason as the first party games were all pretty good (Mario Maker, Splatoon, Mario Kart 8, etc). It failed because of horrendous marketing and a mediocre lineup of third-party games. Most non-engaged consumers (parents and other family members) weren't even aware it was a full new system instead of a re-release of the previous Wii system (like the PS2 slim or Xbox 1 S).

2. Steam doesn't "spy" per se, but it does collect data. Most programs do this, though and for many applications this data is a revenue stream (Facebook, being the biggest example). The line for most people in the EGS drama is that Steam isn't collecting data that you generate in other applications and is very good about asking you things like "Hey we're doing a hardware survey, can we scan your shit?", where as EGS is looking at your Steam data - which is a big no no (as it's looking at other applications). It's alarming for people because if this is the stuff they're doing now (before the program is finished and when they don't have a large market share) what does it look like when/if they do outgrow steam?
 
I can see why this happened. Epic/Tencent throwing money at Obsidian for the exclusive window could mean that they only have to sell X amount of copies to turn a profit as opposed to Y amount if it was on Steam. And given how fucky vidya economics are combined with their first-hand experience with it, I can understand why Obsidian agreed to Epic's exclusivity, especially if they're afraid it won't be a big hit.

But at the same time, Steam's still the bigger storefront, and exclusivity imo is something that's becoming increasingly antiquated considering that if you want a game that's on something you can't or won't have, there are torrents that are just a few clicks away. If Epic keeps throwing money at devs for exclusives, it runs the risk of only increasing piracy or devs putting the game on Steam after the fact with tails between their legs due to a possible lack of customers on Epic. And given that again, this is modern vidya we're talking about, they're probably gonna find a way to fuck it up and increase piracy. Convenience also plays a big part in the backlash. Would you want your vidya collection all in one place or scattered across different storefronts?

TL;DR I can see why Obsidian are doing this, but now there's a different set of risks they have to deal with.
 
Sexy Times Hitler said:
TL;DR I can see why Obsidian are doing this, but now there's a different set of risks they have to deal with.
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Well, I'm not sure of the business part or the contract part, but Obsidian is going to mitigate a huge amount of risk because they were recently bought by Microsoft and this will likely be the last game they make a business decision on (if they were even responsible for this one). If this was a decision made by legacy Obsidian management/owners, it's likely them wringing out the last bit of value out of the sale before they turn the keys over.
 
BoomerDenton said:
Dude, you are arguing with Neural, you won't get through to him.

Also regarding the whole "Metro Exodus sold 2.5 times the copies of Last Light at launch!" bullshit.

Last Light sold poorly at first. So around 50k copies I hear.

So 2.5 that is around 250k or 300k. Basically not much. So it isn't selling well on the Epic Game Store. You can even tell this to be the case as few are talking about the game now.
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It's actually around 125k copies, so it's better the same way breaking your wrist is "better" than getting shot.
Tanner Glass said:
Obsidian is going to mitigate a huge amount of risk because they were recently bought by Microsoft
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Oh, so they're screwed either way. Gotcha.
 
BoomerDenton said:
Hey that sums up the EGS defenders in a nutshell, they don't see the nuances in what's wrong just pretend everything is fine. Almost as if they willingly ignore the cons.
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Ember Ghost Squad?

Alan Pardew said:
With this drama going on in this thread, I have two questions:

1. People talk about exclusives. What about the Wii U? It boasted exclusives but failed pretty bad that even Nintendo poked fun of it.

2. Does Steam spy on user data compared with Epic?
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Valve collects data related to VAC but most of it is stuff people choose to give over.
 
Stoneheart said:
Because Steam wants a bigger cut and the Epic store has a giant userbase and runs way better than the stores of other companys.


how does downloading another client ruin anything?
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Tbf they're in a position to demand it and will be even more so if epic store goes up in smoke as these distribution platforms sometimes do. (Impulse)
 
Anyone know what cuts PSN and Xbox take? I just had someone say that Valve’s cut was robbery, but I don’r know a damn thing about retail backend.
 
Someone mentioned to me that the Halo collection was released on Steam. So the theory going around is that 'The Outer Worlds' was made by Take 2 before Obsidan was acquired, so the decision to move to Epic was Take 2's, not Microsoft's or Obsidians. And we all know Take 2 are greedy little cunts so its probably them.

Stoneheart said:
all those shitty publisher platforms are still around.
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...because those publishers are still around.

Sexy Times Hitler said:
I can see why this happened. Epic/Tencent throwing money at Obsidian for the exclusive window could mean that they only have to sell X amount of copies to turn a profit as opposed to Y amount if it was on Steam. And given how fucky vidya economics are combined with their first-hand experience with it, I can understand why Obsidian agreed to Epic's exclusivity, especially if they're afraid it won't be a big hit.

But at the same time, Steam's still the bigger storefront, and exclusivity imo is something that's becoming increasingly antiquated considering that if you want a game that's on something you can't or won't have, there are torrents that are just a few clicks away. If Epic keeps throwing money at devs for exclusives, it runs the risk of only increasing piracy or devs putting the game on Steam after the fact with tails between their legs due to a possible lack of customers on Epic. And given that again, this is modern vidya we're talking about, they're probably gonna find a way to fuck it up and increase piracy. Convenience also plays a big part in the backlash. Would you want your vidya collection all in one place or scattered across different storefronts?

TL;DR I can see why Obsidian are doing this, but now there's a different set of risks they have to deal with.
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Obsidian had no control over this. This was more than likely 100% Take 2's decision. The money is not going to Obsidian, it goes to the publisher. Obsidian is not an independent entity. The thing is this.

Piracy went down when Netflix and Hulu were the only streaming services. But as things became more and more exclusive, it just became simpler to pirate. Why the fuck would I put yet another launcher on my machine when I can just pirate, when I know that pirated game 1) Won't come with spyware and 2) will run better than the Epic store.
 
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Secret Asshole said:
Someone mentioned to me that the Halo collection was released on Steam. So the theory going around is that 'The Outer Worlds' was made by Take 2 before Obsidan was acquired, so the decision to move to Epic was Take 2's, not Microsoft's or Obsidians. And we all know Take 2 are greedy little cunts so its probably them.



...because those publishers are still around.



Obsidian had no control over this. This was more than likely 100% Take 2's decision. The money is not going to Obsidian, it goes to the publisher. Obsidian is not an independent entity. The thing is this.

Piracy went down when Netflix and Hulu were the only streaming services. But as things became more and more exclusive, it just became simpler to pirate. Why the fuck would I put yet another launcher on my machine when I can just pirate, when I know that pirated game 1) Won't come with spyware and 2) will run better than the Epic store.
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That's probably the funniest part of this whole thing. Piracy as an internet culture seems to be making a wee bit of a comeback. All of a sudden after watching a few recent videos on Epic my recommendations is suddenly filled with shit like covers of that You Are A Pirate song from Lazy Town.

I didn't even know Alestorm existed, and now I'm compulsively looking for the rest of their pirate themed music.
 
Also the Epic Game store guy seems like a massive faggot: "HURRR WE DON'T SELL PORN" "HURR WE DON'T SELL BAD GAMES" proceeds to put all David Cage games on the platform
 
He obviously means shovelware like this, not shovelware like David Cage games. Although I admit the distinction is blurry sometimes.
store.steampowered.com

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For what it's worth Epic is much more curated, which is exactly what some faggots want. There are a lot of good games, the most topical of which is Kenshi, that would never make it past any reasonable curation by whichever desk jockey decides such things at Epic. But let's ignore that because 1 dollar shovelware is really hard to skip on your discovery queue the two times a year steam incentives you to use it.
 
All i'm worried about is does this mean that Borderlands 3 is likely to be an Epic store exclusive as well, since both Outer Worlds and BL3 are owned by 2K if im not mistaken. Don't care too much about Outer Worlds being an Epic exclusive since the game doesn't look that good from what they have shown so far.
 
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