Law Trump admin imposes bumpstock ban unilaterally - Hawaii judge, where you at?

  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
WASHINGTON — The Trump administration on Tuesday issued a new rule banning bump stocks, the attachments that enable semiautomatic rifles to fire in sustained, rapid bursts and that a gunman used to massacre 58 people and wound hundreds of others at a Las Vegas concert in October 2017.

The new regulation, which had been expected, would ban the sale or possession of the devices under a new interpretation of existing law. Americans who own bump stocks would have 90 days to destroy their devices or to turn them in to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. The Justice Department said A.T.F. would post destruction instructions on its website.

Bump stocks work by harnessing a firearm’s recoil energy to slide it back and forth to bump against a squeezed trigger, so that it keeps firing without any need for the shooter to pull the trigger again. The Justice Department said that this function transforms semiautomatic weapons, like assault rifles styled on the AR-15, into fully automatic machine guns, which Congress sharply restricted in 1986 — allowing the ban.

“With limited exceptions, the Gun Control Act, as amended, makes it unlawful for any person to transfer or possess a machine-gun unless it was lawfully possessed prior to the effective date of the statute,” the new regulation states. “The bump-stock-type devices covered by this final rule were not in existence prior to the effective date of the statute, and therefore will be prohibited when this rule becomes effective.”

A senior Justice Department official, briefing reporters about the new rule on condition of anonymity, said that it was believed that tens of thousands of bump-stock devices are in circulation, but that more exact figures are unavailable. The official said the department expected that most owners of the devices would comply with the new regulation, and that A.T.F. would investigate and take legal action against those who violate it.

After publishing a proposed version of the rule earlier this year, the government received 119,264 comments in support of it and 66,182 expressing opposition to it, the Justice Department said.

The regulatory move may face a legal challenge. The Justice Department had initially decided that the executive branch lacked the authority to ban bump stocks on its own under existing gun-control laws, and that action in Congress — where it is politically difficult to enact new gun-control legislation — would be necessary to curb legal access to the devices.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/18/us/politics/trump-bump-stocks-ban.html

Bumpstocks are a somewhat popular firearms accessory that attaches to several popular guns in place of the normal stock and more or less uses the recoil of the firearm to allow you to fire quickly. They're impractical, silly, and mostly just for dumping a few magazines very quickly at milk jugs and soda bottles.

Supposedly, the vegas shooter had one in his possession when he COMP'd an entire country music festival. It has since come to light that while he may have, he also had more effective and already illegal machine gun conversions on hand anyway (a sort of ghetto lightning link sort of device, but I don't want to drift too far off topic). Bump stocks remained relatively obscure outside of a few calls for their banning.

Donald Trump, bizarrely, decided to make it a bit of a personal crusade to ban them, and has been at it for about a year or so now, generally agitating for it after the parkland shootings, which tragically missed david Hogg and also more bizarrely did not involve a bump stock which makes it even more of a head scratcher.

As of today, POTUS has finalized a rule, signed by his acting AG, that states bump stocks are now machine guns and anyone owning them has 90 days to turn them in or destroy them.

Mind, these are not $10 or $20 parts- they generally went for $200-400, and the expectation is that they be destroyed without compensation. And also, the determination that they are illegal comes after the Obama era ATF specifically determining that they were, in fact, legal, and that banning them would require legislative action and be beyond the purview of a regulatory agency.

As a result, multiple organizations have already filed for injunctions against the act, with more to follow. For an extra twist to an already bizarre legal game of twister, the NRA came out in favor of a bump stock ban after the vegas shooting.

Link to a press release from the Gun Owners of America, who largely pushed what became DC v Heller, aka the SCOTUS decision which enshrined the individualist second amendment (thanks, Scalia!).

(CORRECTION: that was the second amendment foundation, not GOA)

https://www.gunowners.org/goa-file-bump-stock-suit.htm

Direct link to the text of the ATF rule change banning bumpstocks within 90 days.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5635249/Bump-Stock-Final-Rule.pdf

For those concerned, binary triggers and "gatling" type devices are made mention of and specifically exempted... until next week, when the government decides they are also machine guns after going on record stating to the contrary.

Additionally, nobody knows how many bumpstocks there are, as several companies made them. I have seen estimates from 200-450k. You can't go to a gunshow without seeing dozens of them.
 
Last edited:
I shouldn't take troll bait, but, oh well, I can walk down my town's street right now without worrying about that, despite the fact every single house I pass has at least a deer rifle, possibly more, inside. We average one murder a year in this county, and for 3 straight years, it's been in the big, central, progressive, university-town urban area where you can't legally discharge guns and every landlord bans them. Food for thought.
Gun Grabbers: How many gun suicides tho?
 
Seems like a pointless gesture. They can't be tracked, and while not a huge gun person myself (I'm known to visit the range and rent a gun from time to time for a little target practice), I know that with practice a person can rattle off shots from a semi-auto without a bumpstock.

That said, going down the rabbit hole of youtube videos and whatnot I think I am going to buy an AR-15. They look like tons of fun.
 
Seems like a pointless gesture. They can't be tracked, and while not a huge gun person myself (I'm known to visit the range and rent a gun from time to time for a little target practice), I know that with practice a person can rattle off shots from a semi-auto without a bumpstock.

That said, going down the rabbit hole of youtube videos and whatnot I think I am going to buy an AR-15. They look like tons of fun.

I own an AR and an assortment of other guns, and ARs are a huge waste of money. Most ranges will kick you out for firing them semi-automatically, even though pistol shooters at the same range will be firing faster than you. In most states, you (rightfully, imo) cannot use them for hunting practically anything -- you cannot even have it on your person when in the field.
 
I own an AR and an assortment of other guns, and ARs are a huge waste of money. Most ranges will kick you out for firing them semi-automatically, even though pistol shooters at the same range will be firing faster than you. In most states, you (rightfully, imo) cannot use them for hunting practically anything -- you cannot even have it on your person when in the field.
So what you're saying is that they're great for posing with while wearing skinny jeans and a soy latte placed not-too-subtlety on a shelf in the background?
 
I own an AR and an assortment of other guns, and ARs are a huge waste of money. Most ranges will kick you out for firing them semi-automatically, even though pistol shooters at the same range will be firing faster than you. In most states, you (rightfully, imo) cannot use them for hunting practically anything -- you cannot even have it on your person when in the field.

Yes, you can. Varmints and deer mostly (or feral hogs like in Texas). The states tend to get anal about the minute details like bullet size/bullet type you can use for certain game and how many rounds you can have in it; 5 is the limit most game commissions seem to set.
 
I own an AR and an assortment of other guns, and ARs are a huge waste of money. Most ranges will kick you out for firing them semi-automatically, even though pistol shooters at the same range will be firing faster than you. In most states, you (rightfully, imo) cannot use them for hunting practically anything -- you cannot even have it on your person when in the field.

This is a nonsense post. There are some states that limit hunting weapons or cartridges (a few states allow only straightwall cartridges for instance- I believe Ohio is one still) but ARs in general are allowed in almost all places rifle hunting is allowed. Even in the straightwall cartridge states, developers created straightwall cartridges specifically for ARs and for hunting in particular, like 450 BM and 50 Beowulf.

And the most common cartridge they come chambered in is the most popular varmint cartridge as well... and a popular deer cartridge in states like Texas, where they are smaller than in other parts of the country- although often considered too underpowered in other places.
 
Last edited:
I own an AR and an assortment of other guns, and ARs are a huge waste of money. Most ranges will kick you out for firing them semi-automatically, even though pistol shooters at the same range will be firing faster than you.In most states, you (rightfully, imo) cannot use them for hunting practically anything -- you cannot even have it on your person when in the field.

I've seen people kicked off some ranges for exceeding rapid fire rules, but never because of the specific gun they were using to break the rules, and a lot people who live outside of cities just shoot on private land where there's no bitchy ROs to regulate your rate of fire anyway. Even then every range I've ever been to except benchrest ranges have been full of people shooting ARs and not being harassed, so long as they don't do anything dumb.

Also idk what your states game rules are but ARs are perfectly legal for hunting in the vast majority places. They can be made to fire many different calibers with an upper swap, and take any capacity magazine as low as 5 rounds, so there's no legal reason you can't use them to hunt in any state that allows you to use semiauto centerfire rifles (which is actually the majority.) You could have one really nice serialized AR-15 lower with a good match trigger and attach a .22 upper for squirrel or rabbit, a .223 for small deer at close range (where legal) or varmints at long range, a .300 Blackout or .458 SOCOM upper for larger game at close ranges (and use a suppressor with those calibers to great effect in the 34 states where legal,) and then switch to a 6.5 or 6.8 caliber upper to effectively hunt game as large as whitetails or mulies at 200-300 yards. Depending on where you're hunting you can also use the arm brace loophole to hunt with a AR that's effectively a super light and super handy SBR that is legally seen as a pistol, also allowing you to circumvent dumb pointless bans on centerfire rifle hunting in a few states.

They're also nice for hunting because a decent AR will be as accurate as most bolt action rifles, they can be built very light (<7 lbs) while still having a free-floated barrel and adjustable stock, they're less delicate and more weather-resistant than many "traditional" rifles, and they have a built-in takedown feature that dosen't lose zero when disassembled which lets you almost halve the length of the gun to stow it in a pack. It's pretty nice to be able to stuff an disassembled AR into a back and not have the 22" barrel of a rem 700 towering above your head as you try to push through brush to your stand as quietly as possible.

After you're done hunting you could take that same lower and use a mag block + upper turn it into a 9mm carbine to shoot the cheapest centerfire ammo available (and also shoot at indoor ranges which don't allow rifle calibers,) or compete in USPSA PCC. You could use that same lower as the cheapest and most practical way to get into .50 BMG shooting, via a dedicated single-shot upper from SHF, or slap a 16 inch fluted lightweight .223 upper on it to shoot 3-gun. I don't know of any other platform that can do all that, and these days with a saturated market new uppers aren't expensive, so ARs are hardly a waste of money unless you're flat broke and need the cheapest gun possible for the most utilitarian and occasional use.

Yeah there's a lot of dorks who pose with ARs on intsagram because they look cool, and if your goal is to fire one round of 7mm mag at a deer every three years they're not worth it vs some beat up pawn shop Savage, but people who do a lot actual gun shit also love them for a reason. They're super modular, they're actually pretty affordable, and anyone who isn't a sped could build one to their liking in any configuration from pistol to 1000 yard competition rifle with an hour of their time and an online guide

oh also my hot take on the threads actual subject is that bumpstocks are dumb, but banning them is even dumber
 
the compromise you missed was that the NRA was pushing hard for a national conceal carry reciprocity law.
Which is retarded in its own right. The states can already do this between themselves like they do with marriage licences. If any of them really wanted this they would have done it by now.
 
I own an AR and an assortment of other guns, and ARs are a huge waste of money. Most ranges will kick you out for firing them semi-automatically, even though pistol shooters at the same range will be firing faster than you. In most states, you (rightfully, imo) cannot use them for hunting practically anything -- you cannot even have it on your person when in the field.

I admit I don't keep up with the gun laws and various rules at ranges in my state. But an AR is a semi rifle that can be modded and that seems fun to me. I don't intend on hunting, I just like the cathartic feeling firing guns at targets gives me.

While we're discussing guns, does any company still produce M1 Garands or something similar? I really like those, I got to shoot one as a teenager at a friend's farm. I loved that rifle.
 
Seriously, one guy does a shooting with bump stocks and we have to ban them? I'll bet you more people died that year to illegal fully automatic weaponry in the hands of gang members.

The only place where gangs commonly use automatic weapons is Hollywood. Ghetto niggers can barely afford their rusty handguns, let alone an automatic weapon, which costs a lot and and can shoot a few hundred dollars’ worth of bullets in a matter of minute.
 
I own an AR and an assortment of other guns, and ARs are a huge waste of money. Most ranges will kick you out for firing them semi-automatically, even though pistol shooters at the same range will be firing faster than you. In most states, you (rightfully, imo) cannot use them for hunting practically anything -- you cannot even have it on your person when in the field.
In only 9 states (10 if you include Ohio which has a near blanket ban on using rifles to hunt) is it illegal to hunt with .223 and guess what .223 is slated to be replaced with 6.8 SPC (.277) which is legal to hunt with in those states since their caliber restrictions usually are set at a minimum of .24 caliber.

So I can use an AR-15 in 6.5 Grendel, .300blk, or 6.8 spc if we're staying strictly intermediate.

Which is exceptional in its own right. The states can already do this between themselves like they do with marriage licences. If any of them really wanted this they would have done it by now.
Except it's retarded due to the fact a Texas license to carry actually has stricter requirements than a New York State or California CCW in that I actually have to have both training and actual shooting test, and be completely free of any criminal offenses, even petty misdemeanors (including out-of-state traffic tickets) for 5 years to be granted one, yet in California or Upstate NY if you can own a gun all you have to do is fill out an application and from there it can only be approved or denied (entire arbitrary especially based on the county) with absolutely no other requirements whatsoever yet my Texas license isn't valid in California or New York.

Hell I can't even qualify for a Texas license due to a traffic ticket I got in Nebraska yet I easily qualify for non-resident CCWs in Washington DC and Illinois which were the two last entities in the United States to completely ban handguns and carrying.

But for some reason a Texas License isn't good for either DC or Illinois either.
 
I own an AR and an assortment of other guns, and ARs are a huge waste of money. Most ranges will kick you out for firing them semi-automatically, even though pistol shooters at the same range will be firing faster than you. In most states, you (rightfully, imo) cannot use them for hunting practically anything -- you cannot even have it on your person when in the field.

Just about every gun is semi-automatic. From revolvers to shotguns that hold multiple shells. Sounds to me like you've never been to a gun range.
 
I've seen people kicked off some ranges for exceeding rapid fire rules, but never because of the specific gun they were using to break the rules, and a lot people who live outside of cities just shoot on private land where there's no bitchy ROs to regulate your rate of fire anyway. Even then every range I've ever been to except benchrest ranges have been full of people shooting ARs and not being harassed, so long as they don't do anything dumb.

Also idk what your states game rules are but ARs are perfectly legal for hunting in the vast majority places. They can be made to fire many different calibers with an upper swap, and take any capacity magazine as low as 5 rounds, so there's no legal reason you can't use them to hunt in any state that allows you to use semiauto centerfire rifles (which is actually the majority.) You could have one really nice serialized AR-15 lower with a good match trigger and attach a .22 upper for squirrel or rabbit, a .223 for small deer at close range (where legal) or varmints at long range, a .300 Blackout or .458 SOCOM upper for larger game at close ranges (and use a suppressor with those calibers to great effect in the 34 states where legal,) and then switch to a 6.5 or 6.8 caliber upper to effectively hunt game as large as whitetails or mulies at 200-300 yards. Depending on where you're hunting you can also use the arm brace loophole to hunt with a AR that's effectively a super light and super handy SBR that is legally seen as a pistol, also allowing you to circumvent dumb pointless bans on centerfire rifle hunting in a few states.

They're also nice for hunting because a decent AR will be as accurate as most bolt action rifles, they can be built very light (<7 lbs) while still having a free-floated barrel and adjustable stock, they're less delicate and more weather-resistant than many "traditional" rifles, and they have a built-in takedown feature that dosen't lose zero when disassembled which lets you almost halve the length of the gun to stow it in a pack. It's pretty nice to be able to stuff an disassembled AR into a back and not have the 22" barrel of a rem 700 towering above your head as you try to push through brush to your stand as quietly as possible.

After you're done hunting you could take that same lower and use a mag block + upper turn it into a 9mm carbine to shoot the cheapest centerfire ammo available (and also shoot at indoor ranges which don't allow rifle calibers,) or compete in USPSA PCC. You could use that same lower as the cheapest and most practical way to get into .50 BMG shooting, via a dedicated single-shot upper from SHF, or slap a 16 inch fluted lightweight .223 upper on it to shoot 3-gun. I don't know of any other platform that can do all that, and these days with a saturated market new uppers aren't expensive, so ARs are hardly a waste of money unless you're flat broke and need the cheapest gun possible for the most utilitarian and occasional use.

Yeah there's a lot of dorks who pose with ARs on intsagram because they look cool, and if your goal is to fire one round of 7mm mag at a deer every three years they're not worth it vs some beat up pawn shop Savage, but people who do a lot actual gun shit also love them for a reason. They're super modular, they're actually pretty affordable, and anyone who isn't a sped could build one to their liking in any configuration from pistol to 1000 yard competition rifle with an hour of their time and an online guide

AK-47 is better.
 
I admit I don't keep up with the gun laws and various rules at ranges in my state. But an AR is a semi rifle that can be modded and that seems fun to me. I don't intend on hunting, I just like the cathartic feeling firing guns at targets gives me.

While we're discussing guns, does any company still produce M1 Garands or something similar? I really like those, I got to shoot one as a teenager at a friend's farm. I loved that rifle.

Your best bet is the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) or a local gun shop where someone traded in their M1.
 
Gun Grabbers: How many gun suicides tho?

Glorious Nippon and Korea are not gun heavens and people still find amazing ways to kill themselves. It must be what the alt-right called "east asian high IQ" average.

What would happen if guns were allowed in the suicide forest tho?
 
Which is exceptional in its own right. The states can already do this between themselves like they do with marriage licences. If any of them really wanted this they would have done it by now.
Several states have done that.This would just be a way for the Federal government to force every state to follow the constitution.
 
Back
Top Bottom