The Space Thread - Launches, Events, Live Streams, Governments, Corporations, drama in Spaaaaaaaaaaaace

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I've always thought of Kerbal Space Program as intimidating. The kind game that an 'EVE Online' player level of autism is required to succeed in with considering you're literally building a space program from nothing. I'm worried that I would either fail miserably right at the start and have wasted time and money, or even worse that the 'tism will kick in and I'll end up one of these 5000+ hours guys and never play anything else or be a functional human being like when deep in an MMO addiction.

Am I being over-blown with this, spacefams, or is it actually a lot simpler then I think? I could always pirate it first and see, but i've just shied away from KSP despite my life-long interest in astronomy and human spaceflight for years now.
Definitely worth a try, the trial an error is part of the charm. When in doubt more rockets, if it tilts, more fins, if it blows up then you are halfway there.
Then restart and think logically, make a reasonable ship and it gets the job done. THEN SLAP ON MORE ROCKETS! and repeat the process.

With mods it can become a lot more complicated and fun. But nothing like EVE.

I will say though, I mostly stopped playing because eventually I had too many parts in render range, it made the game run very very slow. Not sure if its been fixed after all these years, but it was what ended my multi-planet fueling, mining and kerbal leisure empire.
 
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I've always thought of Kerbal Space Program as intimidating. The kind game that an 'EVE Online' player level of autism is required to succeed in with considering you're literally building a space program from nothing. I'm worried that I would either fail miserably right at the start and have wasted time and money, or even worse that the 'tism will kick in and I'll end up one of these 5000+ hours guys and never play anything else or be a functional human being like when deep in an MMO addiction.

Am I being over-blown with this, spacefams, or is it actually a lot simpler then I think? I could always pirate it first and see, but i've just shied away from KSP despite my life-long interest in astronomy and human spaceflight for years now.
It's very chill. The trial and error is part of what makes it chill. Basically instead of learning any actual maths, you just eyeball shit and learn orbital mechanics principles through fucking up. Even on career mode (which you should probably always play on because gating stuff through contracts and gathering science paces out what you need to learn) the penalties are super low for blowing up a rocket, and you can always hit "revert to launch/VAB" to tweak something you messed up or forgot.

In fact you can't really even get mathy without a bunch of mods. I think most people end up with hundreds of mods, but that's after getting eased in by vanilla, which is space legos with scales and gravity and heating and stuff dialled way down so you have huge margins to play in.

It only really gets intense with shit like RSO/RP-1 (which I've just started replaying btw) which is a full-on IRL space program sim which starts you out on the 1950 or something launching sounding rockets and sucking dick (ie taking x-plane development funding) to scrape together cash if you aren't planning years ahead. Or even just kerbalism which adds ways for your dudes to die like radiation or running out of snacks.
But the base game doesn't care if you lose a guy in deep space and only send a mission to pick him up once he orbits back around in 140 years; it's very forgiving.
 
venus is my favorite planet other than earth

the reds once launched a balloon there
I hate to blow your mind, but they landed a craft -- Venera 13 -- on Venus.
venus-surface-venera-13-b.jpg venera 13 horizon.jpg
 
Ahh, so, its like in Kerbal Space Program. Where instead of worrying about where my target planet was on any given day I decide to launch, I instead worry about how many boosters I can strap to the command module.

The difference is not the distance. Its how much energy a certain trajectory requires, and the specific time to enter that trajectory requires.

It all makes sense now, and does explain why its hard to calculate these things. Because there can be a damn near infinite number of trajectories when you also factor in the moment you need to launch into that trajectory based upon the orbit of both earth and mars, as well as how much energy you can apply to a given orbital trajectory. Neat! I learned something today!
Pork chop plots are for this, they let you pick when you leave vs when you arrive according to how much dV you wanna spend (or can spend, I think colouring in just the regions on a pork chop that match your fuel budget is literally where "launch window" comes from). And yeah if you look at NASA pork chops they'll clearly do stuff like optimise for avoiding public holidays or arriving at exactly 00:00, rather than either burn or time economy:
2x A11 porkchop.png
The NASA ARC Trajectory browser is fun to play with, doesn't really look like a pork chop though (although it's the same thing) because it only returns a handful of discrete good trajectory points from their DB. But you can click em to see a cute 3D orbital view.
I'd post a fully-featured planner instead but all the ones on the internet are for kerbals instead of our gay solar system.

(They are really useful for KSP though if you're doing any long trips. There's a bunch of mods, but I just use the integrated one in Mechjeb. Sounds dorky but I don't got time for shit like fast forwarding until jool eclipses the flagpole or whatever the fuck people do.)
 
I've always thought of Kerbal Space Program as intimidating. The kind game that an 'EVE Online' player level of autism is required to succeed in with considering you're literally building a space program from nothing. I'm worried that I would either fail miserably right at the start and have wasted time and money, or even worse that the 'tism will kick in and I'll end up one of these 5000+ hours guys and never play anything else or be a functional human being like when deep in an MMO addiction.

Am I being over-blown with this, spacefams, or is it actually a lot simpler then I think? I could always pirate it first and see, but i've just shied away from KSP despite my life-long interest in astronomy and human spaceflight for years now.
I tried to play EVE Online at one time and bounced off of it pretty fucking hard, but KSP for me, it was very intuitive from the very beginning. If you start in just plain sandbox mode [no science point/tech tree restrictions and no monetary/budget concerns] I could see where it would be incredibly overwhelming because you have all of these parts and no real idea where to even start, but if you play science mode with the base tech tree and work your way up? The development is very intuitive in my opinion, and you start with just enough parts to basically start learning the base game with suborbital flights, slowly building your way up and unlocking new parts as you go in a way that generally makes sense, so you're never really overwhelmed with a huge variety of new parts that you don't really know what to do with.

But on the latter part? That's a serious danger, because for me whenever I boot up KSP, I know I'm not going to play anything else for at least a few weeks because the 'tism kicks in. There are a lot of games like that for me where if I have time-sensitive things that need done, I know better than to even boot it up because I'm going to get sucked in and fucking everything else [outside of important life stuff] is going to fall by the wayside. But generally, I find it very intuitive - especially in the early tech tree. Where you're likely to run into trouble is with mods because once you start modding KSP, there are basically no limits anymore, some of these packs will add THOUSANDS of parts and if you're anything like me, you can boot up the fucking game and sit in the VAB the entire time just fucking around and designing a spacecraft/launch vehicle and not even actually launch or do any real gameplay lmao.

In the early game though, 'failure' is part of the process, and it's very satisfying once you finally figure it out and have a successful mission, and from that point forward the game really develops a shit-ton of depth. You can make your missions/objectives as simple or as complex as you wish from that point on. Over time, you'll go from "bro how in the fuck do I even actually get this thing in orbit" to plotting complex missions and building space stations in orbit. The gameplay loop is very satisfying once things finally start to 'click', even though you'll still make stupid ass mistakes from time to time. It's the sort of game where you really learn via trial and error and it's generally pretty forgiving, you just experiment until everything clicks into place and you'll be quite surprised how quickly your missions ramp up from 'yay I actually established a stable orbit around Kerbin' to 'cool I landed a probe on Laythe' once everything starts to make sense.
 
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Thanks everyone for the great info about KSP. I appreciate the time you all put in to it. I definately need to give it a try at the very least, I'll probably fucking love it.
 
Nah man, thank you for asking about kerbals so we can do that instead of working.
if you play science mode with the base tech tree and work your way up? The development is very intuitive in my opinion, and you start with just enough parts to basically start learning the base game
Career mode additionally reinforces that with contracts too, especially the early ones that work up from "literally just get off the ground" gradually to "okay now do a sputnik". Not just in terms of being a structured tutorial, but giving you a funding reason not to just solve everything by building a cathedral out of boosters.
Yet they pay well enough that you can ignore anything you don't wanna do and by the time you're going interplanetary you'll have millions in the bank, so you're basically playing science mode at that point anyway.

Plus it gives you suggested goals and helps push you out of your comfort zone a bit when you see a fat reward for doing shit like building a space tour bus to your anus.
So I recommend it unless you're the kind of autist with very specific space objectives in mind already. Science mode gives you motivation to eventually land a lab somewhere remote but that's about it.

Though the base contracts get kinda samey in the mid- to late-game so some contract packs like Tourism Expanded and whatever else sounds interesting are the one thing I'd recommend for an otherwise completely "vanilla" run.
Well, that and every single visual mod people always recommend. Blackrack's sexy-ass paid raymarched clouds mod is on Kemono, just btw if anyone was wondering.

CKAN is how you mod KSP. It pulls from every repo in the universe.
It'll work just fine with a pirate copy if you go that way. Then you'll inevitably buy the game and keep using your pirate copy anyway because it has all your CKAN shit.
 
CKAN is how you mod KSP. It pulls from every repo in the universe.
It'll work just fine with a pirate copy if you go that way. Then you'll inevitably buy the game and keep using your pirate copy anyway because it has all your CKAN shit.

LOL yep I've lost track of how many games in my Steam library have 0.00 hours playtime because I 'try before I buy' a lot of games and then buy the ones I actually play and it's just easier to keep playing the pirate version, especially if you've progressed far in something fairly difficult like Darkest Dungeon or got a mod manager running with a lot of mods.

Thanks for letting me know about CKAN, I'll avoid getting into any non-cosmetic mods until I have progressed as far as i can with vanilla.
 
LOL yep I've lost track of how many games in my Steam library have 0.00 hours playtime because I 'try before I buy' a lot of games and then buy the ones I actually play and it's just easier to keep playing the pirate version, especially if you've progressed far in something fairly difficult like Darkest Dungeon or got a mod manager running with a lot of mods.

Thanks for letting me know about CKAN, I'll avoid getting into any non-cosmetic mods until I have progressed as far as i can with vanilla.
One further thing to note about difficulty, planet Kerbin has the same gravity as Earth, 9.8 m/s^2, but is much smaller and therefore easier to get into orbit. One of the difficulty mods people enjoy is replacing the solar system with our Sol system, so earth is bigger and you need more fuel to get out of the gravity well.

IMG_0371.png
 
There's also a few intermediary 'solar system replacement' mods, if you want to go super-ham you can go with RO [Realism Overhaul] which essentially just plops the real solar system [to scale, as far as I know] into the game, but it's extremely challenging and basically requires a whole constellation of modded parts because with the scales involved, the stock KSP parts really can't get it done, they're geared toward the stock system and nothing really exists at that scale in stock KSP. The one I've been playing is KSRSS, which is basically the real solar system but at stock KSP scale, so you get the real planets of our solar system but it isn't punishingly difficult. Although I will say, Mercury is still a big bitch to land anything on, because the relative positions of the planets are the same as they are in real life, it's just the mass/scale that is different. There are also configuration options that you can tailor to how you play, but you have to have a general idea of what you like before really monkeying around with that stuff. Personally, I tend to play without the comms stuff [needing to have relays and such to actually control/communicate with your spacecraft] most of the time because I find launching endless comms satellites and adjusting their orbits to be tedious, but depending on your flavor of space autism that shit might be kino to you, basically setting up infrastructure for your future missions. Maybe I'm a filthy casual for playing with that requirement off, but I got really tired of trying to land my probe or perform a time-sensitive maneuver and I couldn't because I was slightly out of line-of-sight or a moon was in the way between the relay and my lander or whatever.

When it comes to modding, I'm the sort of motherfucker that starts modding a game and very quickly thereafter, I realize that I'm actually spending more time fucking around with mods [and troubleshooting why the fuck they keep crashing my goddamn game] than I am actually playing the fucking game, and likewise I would say that roughly 60% of my playtime in KSP has been spent in the fucking VAB or screwing around with spaceplanes in atmosphere for no particular reason, as most of the time IME spaceplanes don't really accomplish any scientific goals that wouldn't be better served with a regular launch vehicle. Main plus to spaceplanes is, if you do it right, you can have an almost 100% reusable launch vehicle, especially once you unlock the late tech tree stuff and can pull of a single-stage-to-orbit spacecraft, so you save a shit-ton of funds when all you really 'expend' during a mission is your payload. I will say though, KSP is actually one of the games I've played that takes very well to modding, I don't tend to have to troubleshoot it nearly as often and CKAN makes it so piss easy, almost too easy because I'm constantly downloading more shit that I probably don't really need.

I would say though, KSP is easily one of the few games where I never walk away feeling like my playtime was a waste or that I wasn't feeling it. And it does unironically teach you shit about spaceflight and orbital mechanics. It's really a fucking travesty that KSP isn't part of the public school curriculum at this point in terms of physics class or science class, because it genuinely does make learning these concepts fun and rewarding. Plus, with certain mod packs, you can use actual, genuine parts that have been flown on real spacecraft, so you can also learn about the history of spaceflight in the process. Plus you can sit in the VAB and build a replica of all of the cool shit NASA pitched and never built/flew over the years. One of the most fun playthroughs I've had was a run where I was seeing how far ahead of the real U.S space program I could get, starting in 1960, but of course there's really no comparison since you don't have congress in the way, nor "Whitey On The Moon" types shitting on the space program. Although actually I think you can mod that in if you really want to - correct me if I'm wrong but I'm like 90% certain there is a mod for political will/favor and public image/PR, and some of that actually does factor in to the career mode.

Overall KSP is fucking incredible and it's a shame that KSP2 was such a fucking shitshow that did not build on that foundation very well. As much as I love KSP, it's a game that started development in like 2011, and in some ways it definitely is showing its age and it becomes clear in some cases that portions of the physics engine are hacked together in the way that they work, KSP2 was an opportunity to fix some of those foundational issues and build upon them but they fumbled it so fucking historically hard.
 
Overall KSP is fucking incredible and it's a shame that KSP2 was such a fucking shitshow that did not build on that foundation very well. As much as I love KSP, it's a game that started development in like 2011, and in some ways it definitely is showing its age and it becomes clear in some cases that portions of the physics engine are hacked together in the way that they work, KSP2 was an opportunity to fix some of those foundational issues and build upon them but they fumbled it so fucking historically hard.
Hopefully, KSA will fill that niche whenever it launches. The pre-alpha is certainly promising.
 
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