Military Equipment Sperging Thread - The Tiger II is a better tank than the M1 Abrams edition

[Falcos_Commisar]

A great looking tank and reliable gun and performance. A shame that lack of fuel, shitty and overweight design and Allied air supremacy outweighed these advantages. Perhaps the Kriegsmarine should have built more U-boats instead of battleships, they very well could have won the Battle for the Atlantic.

People forget that the Tiger 1 had it's genesis in a requirement from.... 1938.

It's design was set by July 1941.

Not likely, according to the Kriegsmarine themselves they would have needed roughly double the Uboats they had to actually cut off the UK. And this was in the earlier years of the war before advances in doctrine and technology made ASW a death sentence for the U-boat force.

Plus, as much as people shit on the kriegsmarine surface fleet they did win a couple of engagements and Tirpitz kneecapped the RN for years just by sitting in port at Narvick due to resource expenditure needed to keep it from leaving.

ETA and that without even considering the invasion of Norway, which was absolutely critical to the Reich's warplan would not have happened without the surface fleet.

Yep. That said the Germany Navy should have halted all large surface combatant design and construction (barring a carrier) from 1940 onwards. Nothing bigger than a cruiser from then on.

Even with things like bases for destroyers and lend lease, the convoys in the opening stage of the Battle of the Atlantic were getting hammered by submarines, even though most of them sucked. Had the Luftwaffe bothered to strike targets of military importance rather than blitz London, it very well could have been over by 1941.

The early stages. By 1943 Centimetric radar, better ASW ships and planes, SONAR and even primitive homing torpedoes (by 1944) were sinking U-Boats faster than they were being built, let along the ENIGMA getting compromised by a machine the Axis had zero understanding of.

In reasonable-land, if Germany wouldn't have stopped all longer timeframe arms projects in 1940 (except ANY Battleship not already launched by that point), would have devotes as many resources as possible to U-Boat production, R&D and fortified sub pens in France, they MIGHT have been able to interdict enough supplies to the UK in late 1940/early 1941 to get a ceasefire or settlement.... maybe.

See, I feel that the Gustav and Dora were victims of overengineering in that their original purpose was never fulfilled and they didn't contribute decisively to the war effort in a way that the 88 did, while being an extreme waste of men, materials and time. Kind of like terror attacks like the Blitz, and V1 and V2 wunderwaffe.

Now you're beginning to understand the issues facing Nazi Germany in WW2.

 

[JJLiautaud]

A video on breaching operations.

 

[God's drunkest driver]

I'm not aware of any other artillery piece that comes with its own tripod.
View attachment 8147729

Some of the larger German recoilless guns did. So did a few light AA gun variants. Of course the ever famous 88s and Pak 44 had a quadrupod. The latter is pretty similar to the D30 in configuration.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Yep. That said the Germany Navy should have halted all large surface combatant design and construction (barring a carrier) from 1940 onwards. Nothing bigger than a cruiser from then on.

A German carrier is a total pipedream, I don't think it ever would have actually happened and if it had it would have been one of those things where it happens in like mid '44 and at that point who cares?

Given the general inefficiencies and subpar design of most German surface ship classes, the total absence of naval air experience the Kriegsmarine had, and the industrial limitations of the Reich I doubt the thing gets built in time. Even if it does the politics of the German military kneecaps it because there's no fucking way the Goering lets the KM so much as even look at one of his precious airplanes. Even if the design is well built and Goering is somehow convinced to let the KM have aircraft then we run into the problem of exactly where are they going to get these aircraft and what would they be? None of the Luftwaffe's fighters would make particularly great carrier aircraft without drastic (and rapid) redesigns and most if not all of Germany's aircraft production facilities were already tasked to or beyond capacity just making planes for the Luftwaffe.

 

[HX-2]

A German carrier is a total pipedream, I don't think it ever would have actually happened and if it had it would have been one of those things where it happens in like mid '44 and at that point who cares?

I think they had one under construction. If I am correct, the Soviets ended up using it as target practice.

Yep. That said the Germany Navy should have halted all large surface combatant design and construction (barring a carrier) from 1940 onwards. Nothing bigger than a cruiser from then on.

I think they really did believe in a conventional blue water navy. The problem is that they never could actually match the Royal Navy, much less the USN on the high seas, hence the awkward middle ground of surface raiding alone

 

[WelperHelper99]

A German carrier is a total pipedream, I don't think it ever would have actually happened and if it had it would have been one of those things where it happens in like mid '44 and at that point who cares?

Given the general inefficiencies and subpar design of most German surface ship classes, the total absence of naval air experience the Kriegsmarine had, and the industrial limitations of the Reich I doubt the thing gets built in time. Even if it does the politics of the German military kneecaps it because there's no fucking way the Goering lets the KM so much as even look at one of his precious airplanes. Even if the design is well built and Goering is somehow convinced to let the KM have aircraft then we run into the problem of exactly where are they going to get these aircraft and what would they be? None of the Luftwaffe's fighters would make particularly great carrier aircraft without drastic (and rapid) redesigns and most if not all of Germany's aircraft production facilities were already tasked to or beyond capacity just making planes for the Luftwaffe.

Even a German carrier today is a pipe dream. They seem dead set on making oversized and undergunned frigates for their tonnage. The opposite of the North Korea problem where they shove over 70 VLS cells onto a 5000 ton hull, technically making it a destroyer, but a tinderbox at the same time, since that thing doesn't even have room for spaced armor, and relies solely on active defenses.

A modern German carrier would weigh more than a Ford, run on oil, because fuck nuclear I guess lol, and only carry like 40 planes

Whats your favorite tube artillery piece mines the M115:
View attachment 8139935

I like the M114

It's just such a spud gun. Short tube, uses a slow cone breech, basically everything in its design was made to be as safe as possible from existing technology, and well, it's still in use in many nations today, because these things just won't fucking wear out and die. It's range is short, but it WILL deliver its payload come hell or high water.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

I think they had one under construction. If I am correct, the Soviets ended up using it as target practice.

They did and they did. However the Soviets raised the vessel after the Germans scuttled it, then realized their plan to finish and use it themselves wasn't going to work, and then they used it for target practice.

Even a German carrier today is a pipe dream. They seem dead set on making oversized and undergunned frigates for their tonnage.

Nothing ever really changes.

I think they really did believe in a conventional blue water navy. The problem is that they never could actually match the Royal Navy, much less the USN on the high seas, hence the awkward middle ground of surface raiding alone

You need a blue water navy complete with surface warships if for no other reason than to act as a taxi service for your other services, allowing your opponents to have uncontested control over the oceans is a bad idea and that's what lost Germany the first world war is the RN blockade. The issue is that Germany has a decade or more where they're just plain not building ships in the interwar period, not that they would have been able to match the RN anyways, but the point still stands.

There's also no small measure of propaganda and national pride intertwined into the decision to build up a surface fleet replete with capital ships. That's what a "strong" and "proper" nation does, after all, and the German Reich made a concerted effort to present themselves to their people and the world as a strong and proper nation.

 

[ComStar]

Whats your favorite tube artillery piece mines the M115:
View attachment 8139935

The Soviet 2B1 Oka, based solely on it being hilarious. It was a 17 inch smoothbore mortar with a very long barrel and the ability to fire nuclear rounds. It was also a bitch to move around, being too wide for most bridges and trains and having that long barrel. It could at least be fired without wrecking itself, unlike its sister design, the 2A3 Kondensator 2P.

Both designs were canned during Khrushchev's time, due to Nicky preferring missiles over artillery

Oka


Kondensator

 

[Slurgle]

Whats your favorite tube artillery piece

The M777 is bae, and no one can deny it.

But the M116 is cute as fuck and I could feasibly fit one in the basement/my living room, for all lawful purposes, up to and including hunting and self defense.

Look at it, it's the femboy of artillery. And just like femboys, you're not gay but you can't control it, it just makes you hard.

 

[Falcos_Commisar]

The M777 is bae, and no one can deny it.

But the M116 is cute as fuck and I could feasibly fit one in the basement/my living room, for all lawful purposes, up to and including hunting and self defense.

Look at it, it's the femboy of artillery. And just like femboys, you're not gay but you can't control it, it just makes you hard.

View attachment 8158518

 

[Jewthulhu]

And just like femboys, you're not gay but you can't control it, it just makes you hard.

I hate to break it to you, but you're gay.

 

[Slurgle]

I hate to break it to you, but you're gay.

Frivolous allegations.

 

[Boldizar]

Look at it, it's the femboy of artillery. And just like femboys, you're not gay but you can't control it, it just makes you hard.

Sounds like a randomtext

 

[JJLiautaud]

Does anyone have a good source on Krupp from 1860-1920? I am utterly fascinated by their stuff.

 

[Slurgle]

Sounds like a randomtext

Absurd, it came from the heart and soul.

 

[Hatewerfer]

Whats your favorite tube artillery piece mines the M115:

For me it's the 7.5 cm le.IG 18 and its cool breech operation. Like a big 75mm single shot break action shotgun.

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But it is a hard choice, there are so many nice artillery pieces out there. I must say, I do love 75mm/76.2mm guns, shame they've all but disappeared except in the occasional African slapfight where someone wheels out an old ZiS-3 or M20 recoilless rifle they've managed to find a round or two for. The old M48 "Tito Gun" has always captured my imagination too, with that massive muzzle brake, light weight and cool appearance. Were I able to build some guns and ammo in some backwater country I'd start pumping out these guns and ammunition for them, man portable/hilux compatible tube artillery would be hugely popular with any number of poor dictators and extremist militias, they seem to really be running low on cheap artillery these days with everything getting sucked up by Ukraine and everyone going to significantly more expensive and unwieldy (but extremely effective) 155mm guns.

​

Look at it, it's the femboy of artillery. And just like femboys, you're not gay but you can't control it, it just makes you hard.

​

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

M551 Sheridan armed with an M68 105mm gun. This was from the Mobile Protected Gun System for the Marine Corps, as a study in the feasibility of mounting a full power 105mm gun on a lightweight chassis.

 

[Hatewerfer]

I am surprised the TRW LMR never made it to full production. The US really gave the Chinese and Soviets the overwhelming advantage in flooding their guns into shitholes by not responding in kind. It is a bit less effective than the AK in properly trained hands given the open bolt design, but that isn't really a factor when propping up sociopathic dictators with retarded drug addicted voodoo believing troops.
Also I want one.

M551 Sheridan armed with an M68 105mm gun. This was from the Mobile Protected Gun System for the Marine Corps, as a study in the feasibility of mounting a full power 105mm gun on a lightweight chassis.

The fighting equipment group got to that one I see. I wonder what the ideal gun to equip the old Sheridan would have actually been, given the majority of combat it faced in Vietnam was not all that well suited to the 152mm gun-launcher (although that canister round was good) and its dodgy ammunition.

 

[The Grognard]

I am surprised the TRW LMR never made it to full production. The US really gave the Chinese and Soviets the overwhelming advantage in flooding their guns into shitholes by not responding in kind. It is a bit less effective than the AK in properly trained hands given the open bolt design, but that isn't really a factor when propping up sociopathic dictators with retarded drug addicted voodoo believing troops.

The vast majority of those dictatorships already had several options. If they had money, FN offered them the FAL and HK offered them the G3. Those with slightly less money bought Sterlings or Uzis. Those without money could just buy endless crates of WW2 surplus from Interarms, Merex, or one of the many independents operating out of Britain at the time. Even then, the USA at the time wasn't exactly shy about giving Garands and M14s away to those who had a real need for them.

 

[Falcos_Commisar]

I am surprised the TRW LMR never made it to full production. The US really gave the Chinese and Soviets the overwhelming advantage in flooding their guns into shitholes by not responding in kind. It is a bit less effective than the AK in properly trained hands given the open bolt design, but that isn't really a factor when propping up sociopathic dictators with retarded drug addicted voodoo believing troops.
Also I want one

As cool as this is the USA has no need for a 5.56mm Sten gun so it's DoA.

By the late 1960s the M-16A1 was around and kicking ass. If you didn't have that cash or influence you got M1 Garands and M1 Carbines or FALs, G3s, Uzis, Sterling SMGs, or 1950s milsurp like the FN-49 and it's siblings.

Side mounted mags are awkward and would be doubly so on a 5.56mm assault rifle.

If the LMR fed from the bottom it might be a winner.

The vast majority of those dictatorships already had several options. If they had money, FN offered them the FAL and HK offered them the G3. Those with slightly less money bought Sterlings or Uzis. Those without money could just buy endless crates of WW2 surplus from Interarms, Merex, or one of the many independents operating out of Britain at the time. Even then, the USA at the time wasn't exactly shy about giving Garands and M14s away to those who had a real need for them.

Correct. Once you hit ~1968 the Western world has settled into its assault rifles with an update in the late 1970s / early 1980s to get most everyone on 5.56mm.