Gun Control

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Black Sonichu said:
I do see your point, but it's like someone who's a vegetarian bitching at me because I choose to eat a steak. It is most certainly unjustified, but what I am saying is that I respect other people's choices, and I demand the same respect for mine. That's why I said it was hypocrisy, and quite often, and sometimes, I don't even get that kind of respect from members of my family. Growing up in a hardcore liberal/progressive family and household, I gradually shed the beliefs I was indoctrinated with, and came up with some thoughts of my own, but that's a story for another day.
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Ah, see, that's exactly the point I was trying to make. A vegetarian complaining about someone eating a steak is retarded specifically because eating a steak is not a public issue. Owning a gun is a public issue. They don't need to get on your ass about it, but laws controlling how you acquire that gun are completely reasonable.

Black Sonichu said:
There are fuckups in the system, and yes, I do think background checks for private sales are a good idea, but it is very difficult to enforce. Citizens are not allowed public access to the NICS background check system, and I think this would at least help cut down on illegal sales, or at least, unknowing sales to someone who isn't allowed to own a firearm. Also, another reason we do not have a federal registry is because felons who possess firearms would have to admit to committing a crime, and the Fifth Amendment protects the individual against self-incrimination. That and the possibility of imposing a 10,000% tax on ownership or whatever. Believe me, it has been proposed and sometimes come close to fruition.
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Yeah, they might be fucking up the specifics. I don't know the details about buying a gun. I was thinking about getting a gun when I moved into the city, but I settled on just pepper spray. Heh, if I get drunk and accidentally fuck myself up with it, pepper spray is nicer than a gunshot. But really, as far as background checks go, at this point, fuck it, we could pretty much be providing just a phone app. It'll be called "igunshowcheck" and it'll just return "yeah, you can sell it to them" or "no, this guy's a crazy." Creating a national database that's useful to 300+ million people won't be easy, but technology is definitely eroding the costs.

As far as self-incrimination goes, I don't think it applies in this situation. You've already been convicted of a crime.

Black Sonichu said:
The illegal gun market exists in many other countries as well, especially those where they are legally restricted from private ownership. Brazil is much stricter on firearm ownership, and yet, the gangs that rule the favelas are heavily armed. I'm not saying it's all cut and dried or anything, but it seems that for the most part, countries with the strictest gun control tend to turn into police states, or are ruled by drug cartels (such as Mexico) and other criminal organizations.
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Oh sure, laws won't be the only solution. Countries like Brazil have problems because they don't always have the money (among other things) to effectively apply the laws.

Really, I'm very proud of the infrastructure we've been able to establish in the US. The federal highway system is very impressive. We're in a pretty good situation, compared to similarly sized countries. (I really want the federal government to start putting money into trains, partially because I can't drive, but still, I think it'd be great for everyone)
 
Marvin said:
Ah, see, that's exactly the point I was trying to make. A vegetarian complaining about someone eating a steak is retarded specifically because eating a steak is not a public issue. Owning a gun is a public issue. They don't need to get on your ass about it, but laws controlling how you acquire that gun are completely reasonable.


Yeah, they might be fucking up the specifics. I don't know the details about buying a gun. I was thinking about getting a gun when I moved into the city, but I settled on just pepper spray. Heh, if I get drunk and accidentally fuck myself up with it, pepper spray is nicer than a gunshot. But really, as far as background checks go, at this point, fuck it, we could pretty much be providing just a phone app. It'll be called "igunshowcheck" and it'll just return "yeah, you can sell it to them" or "no, this guy's a crazy." Creating a national database that's useful to 300+ million people won't be easy, but technology is definitely eroding the costs.

As far as self-incrimination goes, I don't think it applies in this situation. You've already been convicted of a crime.


Oh sure, laws won't be the only solution. Countries like Brazil have problems because they don't always have the money (among other things) to effectively apply the laws.

Really, I'm very proud of the infrastructure we've been able to establish in the US. The federal highway system is very impressive. We're in a pretty good situation, compared to similarly sized countries. (I really want the federal government to start putting money into trains, partially because I can't drive, but still, I think it'd be great for everyone)
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Yeah, I think the train idea would be good, and I am fully capable of driving (and I have a motorcycle endorsement as well!), although I can see it being useful to those who cannot or would like another option. More options are always good, even if I choose not to exercise them. Personally, I wouldn't trust my life or property on what's essentially a can of seasoning on steroids, but I agree that it does beat getting drunk and doing something stupid with a more damaging weapon. Besides, my days of drinking heavily are over, and I don't leave it in the corner, loaded and ready like an idiot. Although it is legal in my state.

Implementing background checks for public use is a good idea, but there are certain stipulations that one would have to fix up before considering such a thing, such as the personal information, and possible bugs in the system (such as false negatives/positives). This example is especially true if one has a common enough name (I don't want to sell an AK to the wrong Bob Jones, for instance, or deny the sale to a clean Bob Jones, based on a computer error). While it's a great idea in theory, in practice, it is sure to lead to a great deal of new problems.

And that whole thing doesn't make sense, but there was a case of a homeless felon sleeping in a ruined building, with a shotgun in the same room, and his lawyer argued that the door didn't lock and just anyone could enter and place it there. So the guy got off a "possession of a firearm by a felon" charge, with that little bit of doubt thrown in. I'm not saying I agree, it's just how the law works. Convicted felons still don't have to admit to committing another crime, at least not in that sense. They still have most of the same rights the rest of us do, at least outside of prison.

America itself still doesn't have the money for everything it needs or wants either, but that doesn't stop it from spending beyond its means at times. As far as America goes, our society tends to worship and fetishize firepower to some degree. I myself am a firearm owner and I kind of find the fetishization (nude girls with guns, etc.) aspect of American gun culture kind of weird.
 
I like the idea of gun control in principle, but in practice I am not sure it does much good, or would do that much good.
Criminals have quite the way of getting guns if they want them. New York City and Chicago have very strict gun laws but there are still plenty of guns on the street.
I believe the sandy hook shooters mother would still have passed any gun control background check, no matter how many there were.
I suppose background checks wouldn't hurt though..
 
FifthColumn said:
I like the idea of gun control in principle, but in practice I am not sure it does much good, or would do that much good.
Criminals have quite the way of getting guns if they want them. New York City and Chicago have very strict gun laws but there are still plenty of guns on the street.
I believe the sandy hook shooters mother would still have passed any gun control background check, no matter how many there were.
I suppose background checks wouldn't hurt though..
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We do have background checks, and for pistols and military style rifles/shotguns, my state has a Permit to Purchase/Carry program. Which is all right, but simply serves to add more hoops to jump through. If it worked and actually kept weapons out of the hands of criminals, I would be all for it. In practice, it does not. There's always a workaround, or a way to get it without running into legal roadblocks.
 
CatParty said:
No one NEEDS to own a gun.
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If you have a shop in an area that has a lot of burglaries it might be worth owning one. Security personnel and armed forced are kind of self-explanatory. Where I live, and intend to move, I certainly have no need for a gun. Besides, I wouldn't know how to use one for the life of me as I only ever visited a firing range once with a friend and the whole thing honestly bores me.

You don't need a gun if you live in a safe area. If you live in an unsafe area, say South Africa for example, it's definetely something worth considering. Overall though I would say guns destroyed a helluva lot more lives then that they ever saved. I never got people who act as if it's some magical perfect form of protection, It isn't. If someone really wants to kill you, chances are they will kill you. Whether you have a gun or not.

The main appeal of guns isn't safety, it's little boys trapped in a man's body who think of them as "cool" because you can kill people with them. Not because you can save people with them. There's that factor, too.
 
Satan said:
If you have a shop in an area that has a lot of burglaries it might be worth owning one. Security personnel and armed forced are kind of self-explanatory. Where I live, and intend to move, I certainly have no need for a gun. Besides, I wouldn't know how to use one for the life of me as I only ever visited a firing range once with a friend and the whole thing honestly bores me.

You don't need a gun if you live in a safe area. If you live in an unsafe area, say South Africa for example, it's definetely something worth considering. Overall though I would say guns destroyed a helluva lot more lives then that they ever saved. I never got people who act as if it's some magical perfect form of protection, It isn't. If someone really wants to kill you, chances are they will kill you. Whether you have a gun or not.

The main appeal of guns isn't safety, it's little boys trapped in a man's body who think of them as "cool" because you can kill people with them. Not because you can save people with them. There's that factor, too.
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There are some elements of "little boy trapped in a man's body" in some people who are part of the American gun culture, but it's not the majority of them. Even some Americans disapprove, but it's just like any other hobby apart from the political sperging of some people. Either way, they're just normal guys who have jobs and raise families like everyone else.

I live not too far from a higher-crime area myself, so to me it is a worthy investment. The cops can't be there for you all the time, and in fact, they are often quite corrupt. I personally support the freedom to choose, but I hold no delusions about their magical powers. You have to understand, my country fought a war with tyrants in order to gain its freedom, and the reason for the Second Amendment is because we don't want to have to do it again. Of course, there are the idiots that think "government can do no wrong," but that's a discussion for another day.

I fully understand both sides of the issue, but tend to err on the side of freedom and personal choice.
 
Just earlier on the news, gun control was mentioned through a panel and through a father of one the victims of Elliot Rodger. With that said, NRA was brought up. I do wonder how any of the gun owners of this website feel about the group. Aside from that, does anyone have to say about gun control in light of Elliot 2014 Isla Vista Killings?
 
c-no said:
Just earlier on the news, gun control was mentioned through a panel and through a father of one the victims of Elliot Rodger. With that said, NRA was brought up. I do wonder how any of the gun owners of this website feel about the group. Aside from that, does anyone have to say about gun control in light of Elliot 2014 Isla Vista Killings?
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People are blaming guns for the same reason people blame video games, movies, and music. It's easy.
I also find it interesting that 3 of the 6 victims were stabbed and not shot.
 
Pikonic said:
People are blaming guns for the same reason people blame video games, movies, and music. It's easy.
I also find it interesting that 3 of the 6 victims were stabbed and not shot.
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Yeah that is the thing. Even though he shot people, he wouldn't need a gun if he could improvise with something else like a blade or even 500 pounds of oncoming metal on wheels.
 
If you don't have guns, how will you stop the minorities, gays, democrats, and abortionists from coming into your home and stealing away your wife and children in the middle of the night?
 
A-Stump said:
If you don't have guns, how will you stop the minorities, gays, democrats, and abortionists from coming into your home and stealing away your wife and children in the middle of the night?
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Use a knife while wearing a Mickey Mouse shirt of course. Otherwise, just put a flaming MLP toy. That should instead bring about angry bronies which can be repelled when you come at them threateningly with a knife.
 
Then again, the pro-gun people can be real creepy. Guns are tools that are used to kill and they are not toys or accessories to make you look tough (nor are they the answer to all of society's problems). If you're someone who has to parade an automatic or higher-powered weapon in public, you seem like an insecure attention whore to me. In the end, these guys are their own worst enemies for their cause (especially if they brag about "second amendment remedies") since they're scaring people off.
 
Posting this here because I don't want to shit up the Florida school shooter thread even more with gun control stuff.

ColtWalker1847 said:
So, what law can solve this? I want details, not the typical "there should be a law" facebook platitudes that mean jack shit. Who reports being a scary weirdo to the FBI? What standards of evidence must be used to deny purchases? Does it have to be proven in court? Does it have to be signed off by a medical professional? A judge? Their mom? What is the appeals process? And, most important of all, can the FBI police and courts actually make it work so it actually does something?
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Anyone care to answer these questions?
 
Tbh All those posts need to be transplanted here especially since it's on such a hot, developing topic, but I'm not sure who exactly would be able/willing to do that since mods dont seen to care too mcuh
 
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