Incel and Lonely Men Debate thread - Defend men giving up or tell them otherwise

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Remember don't expect sex, you should date for love more than anything even if it's failure after failure. Pick yourself back up and never give up, or you will fill yourself in a world of hurt and hate.
 
Shidoen said:
Remember don't expect sex, you should date for love more than anything even if it's failure after failure. Pick yourself back up and never give up, or you will fill yourself in a world of hurt and hate.
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Nigger, what are you on? It must be the good shit.
 
Ughubughughughughughghlug said:
In some sense, that guy is like a Nice Guy, but he's real charming to most people. Gets what he wants while being a dirtbag at the core. We've got this whole circle of office snakes at work and he's in cozy with them. That's what I see succeeding, socially, in the world around me. Snakes.
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You should take your own advice and not care whether people like you. Not in the gay, posturing "I don't give a FUCK anybody thinks" way, but actual, real indifference toward the opinions of other people.

The solution to "snakes" and workplace drama and cliques and all that is to be blissfully unaware of it. You'd be amazed at how such people scurry away once you demonstrate utter disinterest and disdain for their social jockeying and attempts to be your buddy.

Shidoen said:
If you expect success you can accept failure.
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...What?
 
Matt Damon said:
You should take your own advice and not care whether people like you. Not in the gay, posturing "I don't give a FUCK anybody thinks" way, but actual, real indifference toward the opinions of other people.

The solution to "snakes" and workplace drama and cliques and all that is to be blissfully unaware of it. You'd be amazed at how such people scurry away once you demonstrate utter disinterest and disdain for their social jockeying and attempts to be your buddy.


...What?
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Do you know any particular ways to train that indifference?
 
Ughubughughughughughghlug said:
I do try to be helpful to people, I like to be helpful. Helped that woman run some errands, but I also told her at the start that she was going to need to figure out how to be self-sufficient (live without someone driving her everywhere), which she did. Helped two of my coworkers move some furniture. Helped many neighbors over the years move in and out. Help coworkers with their work assignments. From as far as I can tell the people around here don't have a grateful bone in their bodies, they just take. Empty flattery from schmoozers appeals more to them than deeds.
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Here's what I've learned over time. Stop being so nice, learn to say no.

If you're helping a woman, ask yourself if your only doing it because she's a woman? If the answer is yes, don't fucking do it. (If a woman needs a door held open becuse she's got kids in a pram or something, that's fine).

Never do any favors expecting anything in return and that includes someone being thankful. You do it because you want to or it's no bother to do so. Quickly those ungrateful people will learn and move onto someone else for free help and not you.

Learn to say no, and you don't have to be an asshole about it and it still works.
 
Ughubughughughughughghlug said:
Do you know any particular ways to train that indifference?
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I don't think you really train it, it's stoicism that arises from your overall attitude and worldview.

The consistent trend here is that you seem to lack boundaries. If you adhere to your principles independent of what anyone else does while still being respectful about it, people won't fuck with you and there's a good chance they'll really like you if you can demonstrate that you at least have a good head on your shoulders. I can tell you that's something that applies from black dudes slinging drugs on the corner in the projects all the way up to yuppie millionaires.

You have to stop extending yourself hoping people will be ingratiated or accept you or w/e. Kel1 above me is absolutely right on all counts, if you do something do it because that's what you wanted to do or what you thought was right. Don't expect some kind of compensation.

If there was a way to train it I think it would be to do things that develop self sufficiency, trades, talents, social fluency/wit, etc.
It's extremely helpful to have faith that you're a good, trustworthy ally to have around and that if you walk away it'll hurt them as much as it hurts you, so they should at least meet you halfway.


The above applies to women too; they should also recognize that you're someone who's loyalty and attention they'd like to gain, because you're the type of person who has a lot to give but doesn't give it away easily.
For women who you give your time, dedication, and approval they should feel special and recognize it's because they personally have earned your respect and attention through their behavior, that you aren't taking it easy on them just because they have a uterus.
 
Kel1 shi1 said:
If you're helping a woman, ask yourself if your only doing it because she's a woman?
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There was a dude in my program that I’d talk to when he was freaking out too.
Matt Damon said:
It's always kind of come naturally to me.

Do your coworkers really inspire that much interest and desire to engage in you?
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I don’t engage at all anymore, I just feel intense anger and desire to not be around them. The ones that I feel have insulted me, or who were acting like friends and then fucked me over/ditched me, especially so.
 
Ughubughughughughughghlug said:
There was a dude in my program that I’d talk to when he was freaking out too.

I don’t engage at all anymore, I just feel intense anger and desire to not be around them. The ones that I feel have insulted me, or who were acting like friends and then fucked me over/ditched me, especially so.
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You need to start over somewhere new on top of rethinking your approach to these things. It's a losing battle at this point to be around them now and nothing is more powerful than apathy and distance.
As for how you go about life, you need to figure out what kind of person you want to be and look for people who will influence you in that way first before you think about trying to please them.
 
Shadfan666xxx000 said:
You need to start over somewhere new on top of rethinking your approach to these things.
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I second this. It's worked for me, you can jettison all the baggage and mistakes and start fresh. People will see who you are now and not the picture and box they put you in your last job. Also job hopping will give you a higher salary.
 
For various reasons I've been giving some thought to some sort of final solution to the incel problem. I don't have one, but I think the start is for society and individual incels to ask, "What now?"

For individuals: "For whatever reason, I will probably never have sex or a romantic relationship. What now?"
Well, what NOT to do is join an incel forum. A start might be learning to find happiness in other things. Hobbies, religion, friends, community, family if you have them (even if you won't ever have your own). Some of the great men in history have been (if not incels) virgins. Telsa and Newton, for example. And even if you never achieve anything like that, which most people don't, you can still try to have a good an productive life.

For society: "There is a group of men who will probably never have sex or a romantic relationship. What now?"
What society probably shouldn't do is demonize them as serial killers waiting to happen. That's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Maybe society could acknowledge that sometimes, just sometimes, not EVERYTHING is the fault of the individual, and that our lives are often influenced by forces beyond our control. Being perpetually single shouldn't be, on its own, enough to make you a loser. Sometimes that's just how it is. Society should try to show a little more sympathy and understanding toward the socially inept. Maybe provide them with more opportunities to socialize, or at least a way to channel their free time.

It's hard to have sympathy sometimes, for the incels who brought it on themselves, and especially for the ones who express more extreme and messed up views toward women. But they're not going away, so the only alternative is to try to help them get better.

Neither of those are comprehensive answers, but maybe it's something to build on?
 
Shidoen said:
Remember don't expect sex, you should date for love more than anything even if it's failure after failure. Pick yourself back up and never give up, or you will fill yourself in a world of hurt and hate.
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Reminds me of a quote by a great man

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My desire for female companionship died when I looked into the marriage laws of my country/common law of my country.

If you cohabitate with a woman in the country I live in for over 6 months the courts can consider you married and she can be entitled to alimony.

I have no desire to be turned into a man enslaved by the gruberment while having to potentially pay half of my paycheck to someone who potentially hates me.

Would you hand someone a gun and tell them not to shoot you at any moment for the next 50 years. Getting married is handing them a loaded gun at this point same with living under the same roof.
 
PaleTay said:
I do think the world is a really lonely place, especially suburbia. Granted I've talked to girls that are 9s and 10s who agree with me, along with male models.
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I generally agree - I know a couple of legit 9's, maybe 10's on one of my sports teams. They aren't exactly experiencing relationship bliss. IMO people in general are a lot uglier than they used to be, and I think that matters a lot. But there is something deeper going on.

I think to a big degree, men and women in general don't really have much to offer each other anymore; other than maybe the physical side of hookups (which suck mentally, btw).

I've ran into this in my own life - I am a 32 year old man now. 10 years ago a girlfriend would have brought a lot to the table for me. Now.....idk man, I live cleanly, take care of all my own chores by myself, I can cook well, and my free time is filled with hobbies I find interesting and enriching, or hanging out with people. The only things a relationship would bring to the table are intimacy and consistent sex. Not that those aren't important, but thats just two fairly higher level things on the whole hierarchy of needs. So the desire, or need to get out there and find someone, anyone, just isn't really there. Does this mean that I am probably at least a better than average relationship partner than most dudes, who come with a number of issues or needs that I don't have? Probably. Does that also mean that by and large, I am just not an option and will likely remain single for a while because there just isn't anyone out there that will actually be a net positive to my life? Also sadly, probably yes.

When we don't want kids, when we get relationship dopamine hits from dating apps and cheap flings, when we have no more shared goals, when we get food from services......what fucking point is there to relationships anymore?

Welcome to modernity. Hope you enjoy your stay.
 
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