Culture Wars General - KiA Diet Coke Edition

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Local Degenerate said:
Regarding the CC censorship, the loli-panty shit was right to go. It's gross even by japanese standards, and added fuck all. What do you lose from removing it?

The dropping lines that aren't as PC (if that bit is true) like the 'you should fix Leena by making her into a good wife.', not as kosher, simply because it IS a characterization of a podunk, backwards ass village.

There's degrees to which 'censorship' is good and bad.
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The problem is, as mentioned earlier in the thread, is that while loli panty shots are not a hill I want to die on, there's still some obligation to defend it since censorship never stops as just removing loli panty shots. They take that win and use it to push the next thing, and the next thing, until it gets to something you care about. By then, it's too late and the exact same logic is used against you. "Why are you defending X? X is morally objectionable. You aren't pro X are you?"

MT Foxtrot said:
Agreed, but it tends to get forgotten when something that censors certain other self-appointed defenders of artistic freedom's sensibilities and suddenly it's necessary to fight us "degenerates" or "Communists" or to "Protect the children".
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Yes.

You live by the sword, you die by the sword. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. You made your bed, you lie in it. What goes around comes around. I'm sure there's more sayings along those lines.

When lefties who are pro censorship get censored, I'm not going to stand up for them. We told them this would happen, so I'll rub their noses in it and keep kicking them while they're down. A great recent non-gaming example is Ethan of H3H3. He went woke, tried to cancel Jordan Peterson. Peterson told him that the woke mob will come for him eventually. Three months later and he's being cancelled by his own side using his own arguments.

As for the right, they are taking notes of things to do going forward. There was a big argument earlier in the thread where people tried to insist the pro censorship right don't exist, or at least don't have any power.


Heracles said:
Why the fuck do game companies bend the knee to woketards don’t they know it’s like 1,000 women on twitter who don’t even fucking play video games.
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Short answer, no.

Since you joined recently, I'll repeat my take. Gaming around 2010 or so hit a market cap. To use Star Wars as an example. All the people who would watch Star Wars have seen Star Wars. Increasing advertising and quality wouldn't help. So, what to do?

Well, most Star Wars fans are straight white young men, so if we add a bunch of women and minorities, then women and minorities will buy watch Star Wars, and existing fans will buy dogshit if it has the Star Wars logo on it.

This didn't go as planned. The existing fans left, and women and minorities didn't turn up in large enough numbers to replace them.


Another problem is PR. At first, companies assumed woke mobs were their customers. Even now they've figured out they're not, the tactics of PR that worked in real life don't work on the internet. In the past, you'd issue a half arsed apology, donate 10k to a charity of the journalists choice, and they'd leave you alone, the controversy would die down, and you go back to selling ice cream of whatever. That is still what's taught in expensive universities ran by boomers who haven't moved with the times. To the Twitter mob, the apology is seen as a sign of guilt, so they go on the attack. So companies keep caving over and over.


There's entryism. This post is already too long, But in short, wokist gets hired, converts as many as they can, hires other wokists, and once they have a position of authority or simply more numbers, they force anyone not woke out of the company, or even the industry in some cases. If a wokist gets cancelled, they "fail upwards" where they are fired only to be immediately rehired at a higher position in a "rival" company.

@SiccDicc mentioned ESG, which I forgot to mention.

MT Foxtrot said:
OAG and RooshV
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Those two people are jokes, and don't have any real power or influence as far as I know.
MT Foxtrot said:
ShortFatOtaku
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How is he a gatekeeper? He's barely even right wing.
 
SiccDicc said:
They do it to get investments through the ESG score system.
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Parallel economy seems like a joke right now but it won't when all these major companies are tied to a system destined to destroy them and a bunch of little indies come out of nowhere to rule the New Media Economy. We're heading for a lot of things politically and culturally but just in terms of VIDYA it's very easy for new companies to upset the Old Order.

Combine that with the growth of incredible technologies that make it almost child's play to create videogames, animation, even realistic film environments, and the stage is being set for one big cultural revolution.
 
Mega Man 2 Intro - NES said:
Where are there right-wing gatekeepers?
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This forum has some.
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MT Foxtrot said:
The Quartering, ShortFatOtaku, Venger Satanis, Archwarhammer
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I have also noticed (based their lolcow threads) the cries to gatekeep coming from razorfag, yellowfag, and I'm sure there are more we could mention.
 
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big ups liquid richard said:
I have also noticed (based their lolcow threads) the cries to gatekeep coming from razorfag, yellowfag, and I'm sure there are more we could mention.
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Pretty much, they also get a load of things wrong in the name of sensationalism or will mischaracterize situations to create a false narrative.

They're just as bad as the people they're claiming to be against.
 
Water-T said:
Remember, kids - it's only bad to hog all the credit and make your co-workers uncomfortable by screaming about genitals IF YOU'RE A MAN.
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No I'm pretty sure women have gotten in trouble for doing the exact same thing.

The problem is perceived to be primarily as something that women are the victims of, because it's a popular narrative. That's mostly due to the origins of affirmative action and the associated workplace media campaigns that were made in it's wake decades ago.
 
Where are there right-wing gatekeepers?
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Idk if it counts but once I witnessed an intesting shitshow around so-called "ugly "characters. Not in the context of uglifying the already existing franchises but in the context of creating new characters which are not some coomer dream material. Like let's say onew wants to make a game with intentionally ugly protagonist, is it ok or not? The agrument was that if you create an ugly character you are already SJW. Of course that's nothing more then discussion between ppl who are not related to gamedev but such narrative does exist, even though it way lesser quantinies then the opposte.
 
YourFriendlyLurker said:
Idk if it counts but once I witnessed an intesting shitshow around so-called "ugly "characters. Not in the context of uglifying the already existing franchises but in the context of creating new characters which are not some coomer dream material. Like let's say onew wants to make a game with intentionally ugly protagonist, is it ok or not? The agrument was that if you create an ugly character you are already SJW. Of course that's nothing more then discussion between ppl who are not related to gamedev but such narrative does exist, even though it way lesser quantinies then the opposte.
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That just boils down to people being paranoid. We're currently going through a phase where new technology has entered the fray and people are still figuring out how to properly utilize it so there's expected growing pains. The advanced facial mocap tech used for Horizon for example is able to get very detailed right to emulating the changing wrinkles formed while talking or emoting.


Other games are now starting to use these same systems because Kojima was just spotted using the same mocap stage for his own game,
 
YourFriendlyLurker said:
Idk if it counts but once I witnessed an intesting shitshow around so-called "ugly "characters. Not in the context of uglifying the already existing franchises but in the context of creating new characters which are not some coomer dream material. Like let's say onew wants to make a game with intentionally ugly protagonist, is it ok or not? The agrument was that if you create an ugly character you are already SJW. Of course that's nothing more then discussion between ppl who are not related to gamedev but such narrative does exist, even though it way lesser quantinies then the opposte.
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I don't know if there are many games that actually have "ugly" protagonists although some could definitely be considered average I suppose.

Frank West from Dead Rising doesn't really stick out to me as ugly but he's certainly not as good looking as other well known protagonists and I don't remember there being any complaints about it.

Then again this was around 2006, quite a while before like like SJW or anti-SJW shit became popular.
 
YourFriendlyLurker said:
Idk if it counts but once I witnessed an intesting shitshow around so-called "ugly "characters. Not in the context of uglifying the already existing franchises but in the context of creating new characters which are not some coomer dream material. Like let's say onew wants to make a game with intentionally ugly protagonist, is it ok or not? The agrument was that if you create an ugly character you are already SJW. Of course that's nothing more then discussion between ppl who are not related to gamedev but such narrative does exist, even though it way lesser quantinies then the opposte.
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People in general, be men or women, like to see cute, pretty & sexy things in fictional media. That's an undeniable fact of human nature that the dumb "coomer" meme will never be able to wash away.

Ugly characters are fine, even as protagonists, but they need to have something to make up for their terrible appearance in order to gather public interest. Something of comedy value for instance.

Edit: Unless we're talking about literal monsters you can play as
 
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KokoroKoroki said:
I don't know if there are many games that actually have "ugly" protagonists although some could definitely be considered average I suppose.

Frank West from Dead Rising doesn't really stick out to me as ugly but he's certainly not as good looking as other well known protagonists and I don't remember there being any complaints about it.

Then again this was around 2006, quite a while before like like SJW or anti-SJW shit became popular.
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Did you even play 4?
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BananaSplit said:
People in general, be men or women, like to see cute, pretty & sexy things in fictional media. That's an undeniable fact of human nature that the dumb "coomer" meme will never be able to wash away.

Ugly characters are fine, even as protagonists, but they need to have something to make up for their terrible appearance in order to gather public interest. Something of comedy value for instance.

Edit: Unless we're talking about literal monsters you can play as
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Or cute characters can be seen as dumb and faggy. It's why Sonic was invented in the first place because Mario lacked a cool edge.

And when you have grown men fawning over cute things it's the same reaction people had to Bronies. Like the grown ass men currently fawning over Anya from Spy Family are certainly getting looks.
 
Marissa Moira said:
Or cute characters can be seen as dumb and faggy. It's why Sonic was invented in the first place because Mario lacked a cool edge.

And when you have grown men fawning over cute things it's the same reaction people had to Bronies. Like the grown ass men currently fawning over Anya from Spy Family are certainly getting looks.
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This reads like a teenager boy going through the typical phase of what is manly or not, in order to pretend to be an adult. Nevermind I was also referring to women as well

You do need to take a therapeutic break from the Internet though because it has clearly broken/corrupted you and your perception of reality.
Edit: And a reply barely one minute later
 
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BananaSplit said:
This reads like a teenager boy going through the typical phase of what is manly or not, in order to pretend to be an adult. Nevermind I was also referring to women as well

You do need to take a therapeutic break from the Internet though because it has clearly broken you and your perception of reality.
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Look Mr. Pot, just because Papa Elon bought Twitter doesn't mean you can go around calling everyone racial slurs just yet.

And women can find cute things faggy and unappealing as well. It happens quite more frequently that you may realize.
 
So far, all the gatekeepers mentioned have no power or influence in the gaming industry. Razorfist and Yellowflash aren't getting an audience with the UN, aren't running major gaming outlets, and aren't in control of what gets greenlit.

But even if we ignore that (we shouldn't, but I will to steelman your position), why should we (gamers and devs) care? SJWs declared gamers to dead, called them every slur they can think of, and even pushed some devs out of the industry. After all that, why should we give them a second, third, or forth chance? I know it's cringe to quote The Joker or Rorschach, but there's a reason people do.

YourFriendlyLurker said:
Idk if it counts but once I witnessed an intesting shitshow around so-called "ugly "characters. Not in the context of uglifying the already existing franchises but in the context of creating new characters which are not some coomer dream material. Like let's say onew wants to make a game with intentionally ugly protagonist, is it ok or not? The agrument was that if you create an ugly character you are already SJW. Of course that's nothing more then discussion between ppl who are not related to gamedev but such narrative does exist, even though it way lesser quantinies then the opposte.
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Of course it's ok.

At the same time, it doesn't mean I have to like them, it doesn't mean I have to buy your game, and it doesn't mean I have to find them attractive.

There was a phrase that did the rounds during gamergate. It went something like "if you beat a dog every day, you can't blame it for flinching when you raise your hand."
 
In my opinion, it’s easy to mock people like TheQuartering and AngryJoe since they seem like the biggest gatekeepers in the “Culture War” because of how well-known they are on the Internet. (I only know somewhat of Razorfist due to his political opinions, and not because of his love for games.)

The problem I have, however, is that these same “gatekeepers“ that want to keep people out of gaming for the same SJW/anti-SJW opinions would be the same ones that end up gaining virtue so much that they do a complete 180 since they never get challenged on their opinions about the state of the gaming industry in today’s marketplace.

Most gatekeepers are well-intentioned, but there are some that are only doing the “gate keeping” because it’s trendy to have to coerce and manipulate people into believing that a “culture war” is the equivalent into being a fan of a sports team or political party in the same climate of today‘s.

If anything, blaming today‘s “gatekeepers” is only going through the surface level opinion and thinking your own opinion is the right way. It’s much deeper than that.
 
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