Opinion Yes, it’s fascism - I don't have a screen big enough for this much projection

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Until recently, I resisted using the F-word to describe President Trump. For one thing, there were too many elements of classical fascism that didn’t seem to fit. For another, the term has been overused to the point of meaninglessness, especially by left-leaning types who call you a fascist if you oppose abortion or affirmative action. For yet another, the term is hazily defined, even by its adherents. From the beginning, fascism has been an incoherent doctrine, and even today scholars can’t agree on its definition. Italy’s original version differed from Germany’s, which differed from Spain’s, which differed from Japan’s.

I accepted President Biden’s characterization of the MAGA movement as “semi-fascist” because some parallels were glaringly apparent. Trump was definitely an authoritarian, and unquestionably a patrimonialist. Beyond that, though, the best description seemed to be a psychological one propounded by John Bolton, Trump’s first-term national security adviser: “He listens to Putin, he listens to Xi, he listens to how they talk about governing unburdened by uncooperative legislatures, unconcerned with what the judiciary may do, and he thinks to himself, Why can’t I do that? This doesn’t amount to being a fascist, in my view, [or] having a theory of how you want to govern. It’s just Why can’t I have the same fun they have?”

Writing a year ago, I argued that Trump’s governing regime is a version of patrimonialism, in which the state is treated as the personal property and family business of the leader. That is still true. But, as I also noted then, patrimonialism is a style of governing, not a formal ideology or system. It can be layered atop all kinds of organizational structures, including not just national governments but also urban political machines such as Tammany Hall, criminal gangs such as the Mafia, and even religious cults. Because its only firm principle is personal loyalty to the boss, it has no specific agenda. Fascism, in contrast, is ideological, aggressive, and at least in its early stages, revolutionary. It seeks to dominate politics, to crush resistance, and to rewrite the social contract.

Over Trump’s past year, what originally looked like an effort to make the government his personal plaything has drifted distinctly toward doctrinal and operational fascism. Trump’s appetite for lebensraum, his claim of unlimited power, his support for the global far right, his politicization of the justice system, his deployment of performative brutality, his ostentatious violation of rights, his creation of a national paramilitary police—all of those developments bespeak something more purposeful and sinister than run-of-the-mill greed or gangsterism.

When the facts change, I change my mind. Recent events have brought Trump’s governing style into sharper focus. Fascist best describes it, and reluctance to use the term has now become perverse. That is not because of any one or two things he and his administration have done but because of the totality. Fascism is not a territory with clearly marked boundaries but a constellation of characteristics. When you view the stars together, the constellation plainly appears.

Demolition of norms. From the beginning of his first presidential run in 2015, Trump deliberately crashed through every boundary of civility; he mocked Senator John McCain’s war heroism, mocked fellow candidate Carly Fiorina’s face, seemingly mocked the Fox News host Megan Kelly’s menstruation, slurred immigrants, and much more. Today he still does it, recently making an obscene gesture to a factory worker and calling a journalist “piggy.” This is a feature of the fascist governing style, not a bug. Fascists know that what the American Founders called the “republican virtues” impede their political agenda, and so they gleefully trash liberal pieties such as reason and reasonableness, civility and civic spirit, toleration and forbearance. By mocking decency and saying the unsayable, they open the way for what William Galston has called the “dark passions” of fear, resentment, and especially domination—the kind of politics that shifts the public discourse to ground on which liberals cannot compete.

Glorification of violence. Every state uses violence to enforce its laws, but liberal states use it reluctantly, whereas fascism embraces and flaunts it. Trump thus praises a violent mob; endorses torture; muses fondly about punching, body-slamming, and shooting protesters and journalists; and reportedly suggests shooting protesters and migrants. His recruitment ads for ICE glamorize military-style raids of homes and neighborhoods, his propaganda takes childish delight in the killing of civilians, and we have all seen videos of agents dragging people out of cars and homes—partly because the government films them. Like the demolition of civic decency, the valorization of violence is not incidental to fascism; it is part and parcel.

Might is right. Also characteristic of fascism is what George Orwell called bully-worship: the principle that, as Thucydides famously put it, “the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.” This view came across in Trump’s notorious Oval Office meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, in which Trump showed open contempt for what he regarded as Ukraine’s weakness; it came across very explicitly, and chillingly, when Stephen Miller, the president’s most powerful aide, told CNN’s Jack Tapper: “We live in a world, in the real world, that is governed by strength, that is governed by force, that is governed by power. These are the iron laws of the world that have existed since the beginning of time.” Those words, though alien to the traditions of American and Christian morality, could have come from the lips of any fascist dictator.

Politicized law enforcement. Liberals follow the law whether they like it or not; fascists, only when they like it. Nazism featured a “dual state,” where, at any moment, the protections of ordinary law could cease to apply. Trump makes no secret of despising due process of law; he has demanded countless times that his opponents be jailed (“Lock her up!” chants, with his endorsement, were a prominent feature of his 2016 campaign), and he has suggested the Constitution’s “termination” and said “I don’t know” when asked if he is required to uphold it. His single most dangerous second-term innovation is the repurposing of federal law enforcement to persecute his enemies (and shield his friends). No prior president has produced anything like Trump’s direct and public order for the Justice Department to investigate two former officials, or like his blatantly retaliatory prosecutions of James Comey and Letitia James. “At least 470 people, organizations and institutions have been targeted for retribution since Trump took office—an average of more than one a day,” Reuters reported in November (and today one can add others to the list, beginning with Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell). Had Trump done nothing else, his demolition of independent and apolitical law enforcement would still have moved the U.S. government closer than ever before to a fascistic model.

Dehumanization. Fascism draws its legitimacy from its claims of defending the people from enemies who are animals, criminals, brutes. Trump characterizes (for instance) political opponents as “vermin” and immigrants as “garbage” who are “poisoning the blood of our country” (language straight out of the Third Reich). Vice President Vance, as a senator, endorsed a book called Unhumans (a title that refers to the left). And who can forget his false claim that Haitians abduct and eat pet cats and dogs?

Police-state tactics. Trump has turned ICE into a sprawling paramilitary that roves the country at will, searches and detains noncitizens and citizens without warrants, uses force ostentatiously, operates behind masks, receives skimpy training, lies about its activities, and has been told that it enjoys “absolute immunity.” He more than doubled the agency’s size in 2025, and its budget is now larger than those of all other federal law-enforcement agencies combined, and larger than the entire military budgets of all but 15 countries. “This is going to affect every community, every city,” the Cato Institute scholar David Bier recently observed. “Really almost everyone in our country is going to come in contact with this, one way or the other.” In Minneapolis and elsewhere, the agency has behaved provocatively, sometimes brutally, and arguably illegally—behaviors that Trump and his staff have encouraged, shielded, and sent camera crews to publicize, perhaps in the hope of eliciting violent resistance that would justify further crackdowns, a standard fascist stratagem. Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem’s recent appearance with a sign reading One of ours, all of yours seemed to nod toward another fascist standby, collective punishment—as did the administration’s decision to flood Minneapolis with thousands of officers after residents there began protesting federal tactics, a prioritization that was explicitly retributive.

Undermining elections. Trump’s recent musing that there should be no 2026 election may or may not have been jocular (as the White House has maintained), but he and his MAGA supporters believe they never lose an election, period. They went to great lengths to overturn the 2020 election, as the prosecutor Jack Smith’s indictment of Trump and subsequent report detail ad nauseam. Rigging, stealing, or outright canceling elections is, of course, job one for fascists. Although Trump is term-limited, we must not expect that he and his MAGA loyalists will voluntarily turn over the White House to a Democrat in 2029, regardless of what the voters say—and the second insurrection will be far better organized than the first.

What’s private is public. Classical fascism rejects the fundamental liberal distinction between the government and the private sector, per Mussolini’s dictum: “No individuals or groups outside the State.” Among Trump’s most audacious (if only intermittently successful) initiatives are his efforts to commandeer private entities, including law firms, universities, and corporations. One of his first acts as president last year was to brazenly defy a newly enacted law by taking the ownership of TikTok into his own hands. Bolton understood this mentality when he said, “He can’t tell the difference between his own personal interest and the national interest, if he even understands what the national interest is.”

Attacks on news media. Shortly after taking office in 2017, Trump denounced the news media as “the enemy of the American people,” a phrase familiar from dictatorships abroad. His hostility never relented, but in his second term, it has reached new heights. Trump has threatened broadcast licenses, abused his regulatory authority, manipulated ownership deals, filed exorbitant lawsuits, played favorites with journalistic access, searched a reporter’s home, and vilified news outlets and journalists. Although Trump cannot dominate news media in the United States in the way that Prime Minister Viktor Orbán has done in Hungary, he is running the Orbán playbook. No other president, not even Richard Nixon (no friend of the media), has used such blatantly illiberal tactics against the press.

Territorial and military aggression. One reason I held out against identifying Trumpism with fascism in his first term was Trump’s apparent lack of interest in aggression against other states; if anything, he had seemed shy about using force abroad. Well, that was then. In his second term, he has used military force promiscuously. Of course, many presidents have deployed force; but Trump’s explicitly predatory use of it to grab Venezuela’s oil and his gangster-style threat to take Greenland from Denmark “the easy way” or “the hard way” were from the 1930s authoritarian playbook. The same goes for his contempt for international law, binding alliances, and transnational organizations such as the European Union—all of which impede the state’s unconstrained exercise of its will, a central fascist tenet. (Mussolini: “Equally foreign to the spirit of Fascism … are all internationalistic or League superstructures which, as history shows, crumble to the ground whenever the heart of nations is deeply stirred by sentimental, idealistic or practical considerations.”)

Transnational reach. Like authoritarians generally, fascists love company; the world is safer for them if there are more of them. In his second term, Trump has broken with long-standing U.S. policy by dialing back support for human rights while praising and supporting authoritarian populists and illiberal nationalists in Serbia, Poland, Hungary, Germany, Turkey, El Salvador, and Slovakia, among other places—and by being weirdly deferential to the strongman Russian President Vladimir Putin. Even more striking is his de facto alignment against America’s liberal allies and their parties in Europe, which he holds in contempt.

Blood-and-soil nationalism. A fascist trademark is its insistence that the country is not just a collection of individuals but a people, a Volk: a mystically defined and ethnically pure group bound together by shared blood, culture, and destiny. In keeping with that idea, Trump has repudiated birthright citizenship, and Vance has called to “redefine the meaning of American citizenship in the 21st century” so that priority goes to Americans with longer historical ties: “the people whose ancestors fought in the Civil War,” as he put it, or people whom others on the MAGA right call “heritage Americans.” In other words, some Americans are more volkish than others.

White and Christian nationalism. While Vance, Trump, and MAGA do not propound an explicit ideology of racial hierarchy, they make no secret of pining for a whiter, more Christian America. Trump has found many ways to communicate this: for example, by making clear his disdain for “shithole” countries and his preference for white Christian immigrants; by pointedly accepting white South Africans as political refugees (while closing the door to most other asylum seekers); by renaming military bases to share the names of Confederate generals (after Congress ordered their names removed); by saying that civil-rights laws led to whites’ being “very badly treated.” In his National Security Strategy, he castigates Europe for allowing immigration to undermine “civilizational self-confidence” and proclaims, “We want Europe to remain European,” a rallying cry of white Christian nationalists across the continent. Taking his cue, the Department of Homeland Security has propagated unashamedly white-nationalist themes, and national parks and museums have scrubbed their exhibits of references to slavery.

Mobs and street thugs. The use of militias and mobs to harass, rough up, and otherwise intimidate opponents is a standard fascist stratagem (the textbook example being Hitler’s Kristallnacht pogrom in 1938). As few will need reminding, the Trump-MAGA parallel is the mob and militia violence against the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021. Trump knowingly laid groundwork for this operation, calling on militia forces to “stand back and stand by” in September 2020 and later dog-whistling “Be there, will be wild!” to his supporters. His pardon of all of the Capitol attackers—more than 1,500, including the most violent—only proved what we knew, which is that they had his blessing. While Trump has found state violence adequate to his purposes so far in his second term, street violence is self-evidently in his repertoire.

Leader aggrandizement. Since 2016, when he declared that “I alone can fix it” and bragged that his supporters would remain loyal if he shot someone on Fifth Avenue, Trump has cultivated a personality cult. Although some of his efforts at self-aggrandizement can seem comical (the gilding of the Oval Office, the renaming of the Kennedy Center, the proposed triumphal arch), he understands the centrality of leader worship in a fascist-style regime. In sharp contradistinction to the American presidential tradition since George Washington, he makes no pretense of serving the people or the Constitution. His mindset, his symbolism, and his rhetoric all underscore the point he made to The New York Times this month: his own mind and morality are the only limits on his global power. This is Fascism 101.

Alternative facts. As Orwell, Hannah Arendt, and practically every other scholar of authoritarianism have emphasized, creating a reality-distortion field is the first thing a fascistic government will do, the better to drive its own twisted narrative, confuse the citizenry, demoralize political opponents, and justify every manner of corruption and abuse. While other presidents (including some good ones) have lied, none comes close to Trump’s deployment of Russian-style mass disinformation, as I detail in my book The Constitution of Knowledge. From the start of his first term, Trump has made “alternative facts” a hallmark of his governing style, issuing lies, exaggerations, and half-truths at a rate of 20 a day. Predictably, his second term has brought more of the same. Following his lead, a MAGA-fied postmodern right gleefully trashes objectivity as elitism and truth as a mask for power.

Politics as war. A distinctive mark of fascism is its conception of politics, best captured by Carl Schmitt, an early-20th-century German political theorist whose doctrines legitimized Nazism. Schmitt rejected the Madisonian view of politics as a social negotiation in which different factions, interests, and ideology come to agreement, the core idea of our Constitution. Rather, he saw politics as a state of war between enemies, neither of which can understand the other and both of which feel existentially threatened—and only one of which can win. The aim of Schmittian politics is not to share the country but to dominate or destroy the other side. This conception has been evident in MAGA politics since Michael Anton (now a Trump-administration official) published his famous article arguing that the 2016 election was a life-and-death battle to save the country from the left (a “Flight 93” election: “charge the cockpit or you die”). In the speech given by Stephen Miller at Charlie Kirk’s memorial service, MAGA’s embrace of Schmittian totalism found its apotheosis: “We are the storm. And our enemies cannot comprehend our strength, our determination, our resolve, our passion ... You are nothing. You are wickedness.”

Governing as revolution. Although born in revolution, the American liberal tradition, especially its conservative branch, prizes continuity, stability, and incremental change guided by reason. Fascism, by contrast, “is not reactionary but revolutionary,” as Mussolini insisted. It seeks to uproot and replace the old order and embraces bold, exhilarating action unshackled to rational deliberation. MAGA embraces its own revolutionary ethos, what Russell Vought, the administration’s Office of Management and Budget director and probably its most formidable intellect, has called “radical constitutionalism,” a doctrine that would vitiate many checks on presidential power. In pursuit of this vision, Vought told Tucker Carlson in a November 2024 interview, “The president has to move executively as fast and as aggressively as possible, with a radical constitutional perspective, to be able to dismantle that [federal] bureaucracy and their power centers” because “the bureaucracies hate the American people.” He predicted, “If you have a radical constitutionalism, it’s going to be destabilizing ... But it’s also exhilarating.” He said he would put federal agencies “in trauma,” an idea echoed by Christopher Rufo, an architect of Trump’s attack on universities, which Rufo described as a “counterrevolution blueprint” to put universities “in an existential terror.” As Trump shuttered a congressionally mandated agency, renamed an international body of water, arrested an op-ed writer, deported immigrants to a foreign gulag, terrorized American cities, threatened an ally, and more, he showed how it looks when a radicalized state abandons rational deliberation and goes to war against itself.

One can object that there are elements of classical European fascism that are not found in Trumpism (mass rallies and public rituals, for example)—or that there are additional elements of Trumpism that belong on the list (MAGA’s hypermasculinity, misogyny, and co-option of Christianity all resemble fascist patterns). The exercise of comparing fascism’s various forms is not precise. If historians object that Trump is not a copy of Mussolini or Hitler or Franco, the reply is yes—but so what? Trump is building something new on old principles. He is showing us in real time what 21st-century American fascism looks like.

If, however, Trump is a fascist president, that does not mean that America is a fascist country. The courts, the states, and the media remain independent of him, and his efforts to browbeat them will likely fail. He may lose his grip on Congress in November. He has not succeeded in molding public opinion, except against himself. He has outrun the mandate of his voters, his coalition is fracturing, and he has neglected tools that allow presidents to make enduring change. He and his party may defy the Constitution, but they cannot rewrite it, thank goodness.

So the United States, once the world’s exemplary liberal democracy, is now a hybrid state combining a fascist leader and a liberal Constitution; but no, it has not fallen to fascism. And it will not.

In which case, is there any point in calling Trump a fascist, even if true? Doesn’t that alienate his voters? Wouldn’t it be better just to describe his actions without labeling him controversially?

Until recently, I thought so. No longer. The resemblances are too many and too strong to deny. Americans who support liberal democracy need to recognize what we’re dealing with in order to cope with it; and to recognize something, one must name it. Trump has revealed himself, and we must name what we see.
 
The full court press in 2000 was entirely due to the media HATING George W Bush and deciding, if there was going to be a Republican President after Clinton, it would be McCain due to him giving them lots of head and the illusion that he would be a moderate. McCain got nuked from orbit by the Bush/Cheney campaign then denied a place in their administration, which only made the press white knight him further... Until it was decided by Bush that they would back him as Bush's successor as a reward for McCain's loyalty to the Bush administration even after they crushed him in 2000. And even then after losing to Obama, they went back to sucking his dick until the day he died.
I don't remember McCain veneration until he became anti-Trump, just like how Cheney went from the "true final boss" of Republicans to "actually he's good now because he's fighting the GREATER EVIL" and when he finally shuffled off this mortal coil it was that he was "complicated" or "tragic" at best, or sticking with the 2008 narrative and his support of Kamala Harris as a way of worming his way out of the mess he created.
 
Replacing Whites with violent brown foreigners is a big one. I do not want my people to be replaced. Their open adoration of violent crime, drug use, prostitution, and vagrancy is another big one. Progressives have destroyed almost every major city area with their openly pro criminal policies they implemented to protect browns from consequences. Their open hatred of White people and White nations is also a big one. Every policy they push for is dedicated to undermining and fucking over my kind. Effectively, "the left" wants me broke, dead, my kids raped and brainwashed, and they think it's funny. They don't think America belongs to Americans, but rather it's just a dumping ground for violent brown foreigners to come and prey on the White natives with complete impunity. They are an active existential threat against my people's and my nation's continued existence.
The American Economic Zone. Something we can both agree on.
 
Trump’s appetite for lebensraum, his claim of unlimited power, his support for the global far right, his politicization of the justice system, his deployment of performative brutality, his ostentatious violation of rights, his creation of a national paramilitary police
Can I get any support for these claims? Where is any of this? Im not a super news-head but I feel like you wouldnt need to be, any of these would get some kind of mainstream attention, especially since the entire media apparatus is against him
 
The American Economic Zone. Something we can both agree on.
Do we? I distinctly remember you chastising me for not treating hispanics and blacks as American. You never actually engage in a real discussion in the parts of this website that I frequent, so I don't actually know what you think, but the couple of things I have seen indicate to me that you're a civic nationalist with a magic dirt mindset. I do not know if that's true, but to be blunt, I don't see a fundamental difference between the lolbertarian American Economic Zone, or the neo-Marxist American Labor Zone, when both necessitate accepting the replacement of my people with foreigners.
 
Demolition of norms.
fascism isnt defined by demolition of norms, rather what norms are are being demolished. If the norm being demolished is fascism, then demolition of norms isnt fascism
From the beginning of his first presidential run in 2015, Trump deliberately crashed through every boundary of civility; he mocked Senator John McCain’s war heroism, mocked fellow candidate Carly Fiorina’s face, seemingly mocked the Fox News host Megan Kelly’s menstruation, slurred immigrants, and much more. Today he still does it, recently making an obscene gesture to a factory worker and calling a journalist “piggy.” This is a feature of the fascist governing style, not a bug. Fascists know that what the American Founders called the “republican virtues” impede their political agenda, and so they gleefully trash liberal pieties such as reason and reasonableness, civility and civic spirit, toleration and forbearance. By mocking decency and saying the unsayable, they open the way for what William Galston has called the “dark passions” of fear, resentment, and especially domination—the kind of politics that shifts the public discourse to ground on which liberals cannot compete.
None of these things matter. Being mean do dickheads is perhaps childish, but not fascism
Glorification of violence.
again, violence against who? If the violence is against fascists, or fascist regimes, how can it be fascism?
Every state uses violence to enforce its laws, but liberal states use it reluctantly,
literally never. Violence always comes from the left.
whereas fascism embraces and flaunts it. Trump thus praises a violent mob; endorses torture; muses fondly about punching, body-slamming, and shooting protesters and journalists;
Not protestors and journalists, fascists
and reportedly suggests shooting protesters and migrants.
No, he suggests shooting fascists and fascist soldiers
His recruitment ads for ICE glamorize military-style raids of homes and neighborhoods, his propaganda takes childish delight in the killing of civilians,
where?
Might is right.
this is up for ethical debate. However im puzzled because id bet almost anything that this "journalist" supports evolution..
Also characteristic of fascism is what George Orwell called bully-worship: the principle that, as Thucydides famously put it, “the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.” This view came across in Trump’s notorious Oval Office meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky
zelensky is a fascist. You're lucky trump didnt punch him. As i recall, punching nazis was thr correct prescription...
, in which Trump showed open contempt for what he regarded as Ukraine’s weakness; it came across very explicitly, and chillingly, when Stephen Miller, the president’s most powerful aide, told CNN’s Jack Tapper: “We live in a world, in the real world, that is governed by strength, that is governed by force, that is governed by power. These are the iron laws of the world that have existed since the beginning of time.” Those words, though alien to the traditions of American and Christian morality
literally what? Which america are you talking about? The america i know of has traditionally walked right in line with that tradition. Lincoln and ww2...
, could have come from the lips of any fascist dictator.
Or just anyone
Politicized law enforcement. Liberals follow the law whether they like it or not;
No they dont. They literally never do
fascists, only when they like it. Nazism featured a “dual state,” where, at any moment, the protections of ordinary law could cease to apply. Trump makes no secret of despising due process of law; he has demanded countless times that his opponents be jailed
Because she committed several crimes, including treason. Should she not be locked up for crimes she committed?
(“Lock her up!” chants, with his endorsement, were a prominent feature of his 2016 campaign), and he has suggested the Constitution’s “termination”
very doubtful
and said “I don’t know” when asked if he is required to uphold it. His single most dangerous second-term innovation is the repurposing of federal law enforcement to persecute his enemies (and shield his friends).
Thatsna conspiracy theory, its never even been suggested
No prior president has produced anything like Trump’s direct and public order for the Justice Department to investigate two former officials, or like his blatantly retaliatory prosecutions of James Comey and Letitia James.
theyre criminals. They should be investigated
“At least 470 people, organizations and institutions have been targeted for retribution since Trump took office—an average of more than one a day,”
most of them were fascist organizations established by fascists
Reuters reported in November (and today one can add others to the list, beginning with Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell). Had Trump done nothing else, his demolition of independent and apolitical law enforcement would still have moved the U.S. government closer than ever before to a fascistic model.
Have you ever heard of abraham lincoln?
Dehumanization
again back to evolution. I wasnunder the impression that humans were just animals?
. Fascism draws its legitimacy from its claims of defending the people from enemies who are animals, criminals, brutes. Trump characterizes (for instance) political opponents as “vermin” and immigrants as “garbage” who are “poisoning the blood of our country”
they are. His political opponents are pedophiles, nazis etc. They are garbage
(language straight out of the Third Reich).
right, but hitler was calling people like trump garbage. Again, its about the target, not simply the words
Vice President Vance, as a senator, endorsed a book called Unhumans (a title that refers to the left). And who can forget his false claim that Haitians abduct and eat pet cats and dogs?
they did that. They were caught on video doing it
Police-state tactics. Trump has turned ICE into a sprawling paramilitary that roves the country at will, searches and detains noncitizens and citizens without warrants, uses force ostentatiously, operates behind masks, receives skimpy training, lies about its activities, and has been told that it enjoys “absolute immunity.” He more than doubled the agency’s size in 2025, and its budget is now larger than those of all other federal law-enforcement agencies combined, and larger than the entire military budgets of all but 15 countries. “This is going to affect every community, every city,” the Cato Institute scholar David Bier recently observed. “Really almost everyone in our country is going to come in contact with this, one way or the other.”
right, but only nazis and people imported by them will he NEGATIVELY affected
In Minneapolis and elsewhere, the agency has behaved provocatively, sometimes brutally, and arguably illegally—behaviors that Trump and his staff have encouraged, shielded, and sent camera crews to publicize, perhaps in the hope of eliciting violent resistance that would justify further crackdowns, a standard fascist stratagem.
again, if its against a fascist jurisdiction, like minneapolis now is, its not fascist
Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem’s recent appearance with a sign reading One of ours, all of yours seemed to nod toward another fascist standby, collective punishment—as did the administration’s decision to flood Minneapolis with thousands of officers after residents there began protesting federal tactics, a prioritization that was explicitly retributive.
Flooding the city with nazis from somalia is ok, combating said nazis isnt, got it
Undermining elections. Trump’s recent musing that there should be no 2026 election may or may not have been jocular (as the White House has maintained), but he and his MAGA supporters believe they never lose an election, period.
Democracy is gay. Again this is a debate but ill look to the past again. Was it fascist when lincoln did this?
They went to great lengths to overturn the 2020 election
no he didnt. He wanted to overturn Biden appointment.
, as the prosecutor Jack Smith’s indictment of Trump and subsequent report detail ad nauseam. Rigging, stealing, or outright canceling elections is, of course, job one for fascists
which is a big reason why biden andnobama are called fascists
. Although Trump is term-limited, we must not expect that he and his MAGA loyalists will voluntarily turn over the White House to a Democrat in 2029, regardless of what the voters say
voting is gay. US monarchy
—and the second insurrection will be far better organized than the first.
Yeah. Democrats have ton of money
What’s private is public. Classical fascism rejects the fundamental liberal distinction between the government and the private sector, per Mussolini’s dictum: “No individuals or groups outside the State.” Among Trump’s most audacious (if only intermittently successful) initiatives are his efforts to commandeer private entities, including law firms, universities, and corporations.
Name 3
One of his first acts as president last year was to brazenly defy a newly enacted law by taking the ownership of TikTok into his own hands
this didnt happen
Attacks on news media.
the news media is fascist.
Shortly after taking office in 2017, Trump denounced the news media as “the enemy of the American people,”
Thry are. The reason trump said that is because the media enabled and promoted the exact behaviors youre calling fascist
a phrase familiar from dictatorships abroad. His hostility never relented, but in his second term, it has reached new heights. Trump has threatened broadcast licenses, abused his regulatory authority, manipulated ownership deals, filed exorbitant lawsuits, played favorites with journalistic access, searched a reporter’s home, and vilified news outlets and journalists. Although Trump cannot dominate news media in the United States in the way that Prime Minister Viktor Orbán has done in Hungary, he is running the Orbán playbook. No other president, not even Richard Nixon (no friend of the media), has used such blatantly illiberal tactics against the press.
Equal and opposite reaction. If the media is fascist, tactics should be used to suppress it
Territorial and military aggression
again, against fascists
. One reason I held out against identifying Trumpism with fascism in his first term was Trump’s apparent lack of interest in aggression against other states; if anything, he had seemed shy about using force abroad. Well, that was then. In his second term, he has used military force promiscuously.
Against who? List them
Of course, many presidents have deployed force; but Trump’s explicitly predatory use of it to grab Venezuela’s oil and his gangster-style threat to take Greenland from Denmark “the easy way” or “the hard way” were from the 1930s authoritarian playbook.
really? So when the US proposed this in the 1940s for the same exact reasons, was fdr being a fascist?
The same goes for his contempt for international law,
No such thing.
Transnational reach
I'll point you to 2 world wars the US spearheaded
. Like authoritarians generally, fascists love company; the world is safer for them if there are more of them. In his second term, Trump has broken with long-standing U.S. policy by dialing back support for human rights
oh? Where? Who?
while praising and supporting authoritarian populists and illiberal nationalists in Serbia, Poland, Hungary, Germany, Turkey, El Salvador, and Slovakia, among other places
all of these places are run by fascists. Either nazi adjacents in mid east or just actual nazis in europe
and by being weirdly deferential to the strongman Russian President Vladimir Putin. Even more striking is his de facto alignment against America’s liberal allies
We dont have any of those
and their parties in Europe, which he holds in contempt.
europe is almost totally run by or sympathetic to nazis and engage in nazi policy of importing niggers and muslims en masse to displace whites and christians
Blood-and-soil nationalism. A fascist trademark is its insistence that the country is not just a collection of individuals but a people, a Volk
actually, all countries do thatm every single one to ever exist. It was core to morale in the US civil war and revolution. Ukraine is using this rhetoric today. And dont forget about israel
: a mystically defined and ethnically pure group bound together by shared blood, culture, and destiny.
Sounds like israel and ukraine
In keeping with that idea, Trump has repudiated birthright citizenship, and Vance has called to “redefine the meaning of American citizenship in the 21st century” so that priority goes to Americans with longer historical ties: “the people whose ancestors fought in the Civil War,” as he put it, or people whom others on the MAGA right call “heritage Americans.” In other words, some Americans are more volkish than others.
Now youre getting it. Why is this bad though?
White and Christian nationalism. While Vance, Trump, and MAGA do not propound an explicit ideology of racial hierarchy, they make no secret of pining for a whiter, more Christian America.
yes. Its a white christian nation.
Trump has found many ways to communicate this: for example, by making clear his disdain for “shithole” countrie
He never said that
s and his preference for white Christian immigrants; by pointedly accepting white South Africans as political refugees (while closing the door to most other asylum seekers);
I only see this being a problem if you were explicitly wanting to replace whites
by renaming military bases to share the names of Confederate generals (after Congress ordered their names removed
I think trump thought it was ok to do so because biden and co were renaming public buldings and stuff to names of faggots and blacks.
; by saying that civil-rights laws led to whites’ being “very badly treated.”
It did
In his National Security Strategy, he castigates Europe for allowing immigration
Because its what hitler wanted.
to undermine “civilizational self-confidence” and proclaims, “We want Europe to remain European,” a rallying cry of white Christian nationalists across the continent. Taking his cue, the Department of Homeland Security has propagated unashamedly white-nationalist themes, and national parks and museums have scrubbed their exhibits of references to slavery.
good..slavery isnt important
Mobs and street thugs. The use of militias and mobs to harass, rough up, and otherwise intimidate opponents is a standard fascist stratagem (the textbook example being Hitler’s Kristallnacht pogrom in 1938). As few will need reminding, the Trump-MAGA parallel is the mob and militia violence against the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021.
How is Trump to blame for biden ordering the fbi to break windows and invite people into the capitol building?

j6 was bidens march on rome. Trump was wrong to resist?
Trump knowingly laid groundwork for this operation, calling on militia forces to “stand back and stand by” in September 2020 and later dog-whistling “Be there, will be wild!” to his supporters. His pardon of all of the Capitol attackers
they worked for biden,
—more than 1,500
1500? It was like, 10
, including the most violent—only proved what we knew, which is that they had his blessing. While Trump has found state violence adequate to his purposes so far in his second term, street violence is self-evidently in his repertoire.
Where?
Leader aggrandizement.
Eh. Not a big deal.
. This is Fascism 101.
Not really
Alternative facts. As Orwell, Hannah Arendt, and practically every other scholar of authoritarianism have emphasized, creating a reality-distortion field is the first thing a fascistic government will do, the better to drive its own twisted narrative, confuse the citizenry,
Like when you say hitler was a white nationalist or boys can be girls?
demoralize political opponents, and justify every manner of corruption and abuse.
Its ok if they're fascist, which the left is
While other presidents (including some good ones) have lied, none comes close to Trump’s deployment of Russian-style mass disinformation, as I detail in my book The Constitution of Knowledge. From the start of his first term, Trump has made “alternative facts” a hallmark of his governing style, issuing lies, exaggerations, and half-truths at a rate of 20 a day. Predictably, his second term has brought more of the same. Following his lead, a MAGA-fied postmodern right gleefully trashes objectivity as elitism and truth as a mask for power.
Alternaitve facts are ok if theyre right
Politics as war.
so dems shoot trump in the head but trump is the "politics of war" guy...
Governing as revolution. Although born in revolution, the American liberal tradition, especially its conservative branch, prizes continuity, stability, and incremental change guided by reason
but that is theeatened and undermined by policies of the left
 
He was a snake who denounced his own constituents in Arizona as "the Crazies".

And IIRC he was from North Carolina and carpetbagged to Arizona to start his political career.

That and he also destroyed the Arizona GOP after he became a senator. He used a lot of his political influence in the state to snuff out conservatives that weren't on board with his neocon policies and that had long lasting effects that we still see now with how fucked the state is, going from a reliably red state to "battleground" state that's leaning more blue.
 
Do we? I distinctly remember you chastising me for not treating hispanics and blacks as American. You never actually engage in a real discussion in the parts of this website that I frequent, so I don't actually know what you think, but the couple of things I have seen indicate to me that you're a civic nationalist with a magic dirt mindset. I do not know if that's true, but to be blunt, I don't see a fundamental difference between the lolbertarian American Economic Zone, or the neo-Marxist American Labor Zone, when both necessitate accepting the replacement of my people with foreigners.
I think so, just approaching the same conclusion from different perspectives.

I don't have the same racial motivations as you do, but I also oppose economic migration. It's fine if people should be brought here to be trained, and then sent back to develop their home countries.
 
I think so, just approaching the same conclusion from different perspectives.

I don't have the same racial motivations as you do, but I also oppose economic migration. It's fine if people should be brought here to be trained, and then sent back to develop their home countries.
Well, then I am curious: what is this conclusion you think we are both reaching? From my perspective, we disagree sharply, unless you think that the aforementioned hispanic and black should be evicted since they have been as trained up as they are going to be, and thus now can go improve their homelands? I find it hard to believe that you would support remigration of economic migrants and their children when you told me they are as American as I am. I also do not see any reason why my people should use our money to elevate our lessers when history has shown that browns feel overwhelming contempt towards Whites any time they try.

This is what I mean when I say that I don't think we actually agree, but I also don't know enough of your politics to immediately make that judgement. If you disagree with the racial motivations, then I do not see a way you couldn't disagree with my conclusion. My vision of America is not one that is full of browns and imports more browns so they can be given welfare and free education. I can not separate race from the conversation, because it is an inherently important factor of what makes America what it is. A nation is the combination of a land and its people. Blood and Soil. Replace either, and you replace the nation. If you disagree with that, then we disagree on the future of the nation.
 
Cool, so I can expect a perfectly level-headed proconsul with two Plebeians walking along with him, with bundles of rods bound around an axe, representing how the will of the people is bound to the authority of the government in perfect balance, stopping at every home and business in their assigned district, asking all of us our needs and worries?

Because that's "Fascism" - not that I should expect this dumb fuck to know history beyond what his Jewish-when-needed-for-political-points upbringing taught him.
 
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