Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

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Not really in any position to add info to what's already been shared by a lot of our fine KF comrades, but just to shake the gloom and doom a little with a small mental exercise, uncertain times like these are why I'm totally supportive of moonshot attempts to colonize Mars and such, even if expensive. This is so that even if a cataclysmic event (virus, meteor, what have you) does hit the world in the future and wipes most humans off the face of the earth, there'd still be people on Mars or Alpha Centauri to keep humanity alive.

That said, keep safe everyone.

P.S. The hazmat suit fits my avatar quite well, though it does nothing for lumbago.
 
i wonder what would be the best strategy, to barricade yourself in your apartment/house and survive on supplies for weeks/months hoping some government will come up with a cure or simply packing up and running into the forest with as much food and water as you can carry and survival equipment.

If you live in a quarantined area then the best course of action is to follow the instructions of your local/national crisis management service and stay put. Stockpile resources to reduce time spent shopping and potential exposure to the disease. Take time off of work if possible. Spend a lot of time indoors and only seek medical attention if severe symptoms start to develop. The "worried well" often crowd hospitals during times of mass outbreak. Pair that with legitimately sick people and you have a recipe for almost certain exposure at a hospital.

If outside a quarantined area, watch the happenings in the nearest effected area and play it by ear. If you aren't exposed and don't want to get pinned down then bug out to the sticks if you feel a need to.

EDIT: If you contract the disease but have yet to experience moderate to severe symptoms then isolate yourself and wear appropriate PPE to mitigate the disease's spread. Don't be a Typhoid Mary like those 5 million Wuhan Chinamen.
 
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i wonder what would be the best strategy, to barricade yourself in your apartment/house and survive on supplies for weeks/months hoping some government will come up with a cure or simply packing up and running into the forest with as much food and water as you can carry and survival equipment.

Keep a hand pumped pressure washer and plenty of bleach on hand. Lots of heavy duty trash bags for possibly contaminated clothes and ceramic filters for your drinking water if you’re recycling rain water. It’s not a camping trip and charcoal isn’t gonna do shit to help you!
 
viralstocks.png

chinese black death driving the stock market to the ground
 
Some Youtubers posted some comments about the Coronavirus while they listen the theme of Hong Kong 97. It's worth to share the comments for some little chuckles.

Pazzo.

They say this is what you hear as you die from Corona Virus.
Seikoto 30
The Emergency Alert System theme of China after Corona has been affected.
Andy The EZ Boy
China really needs Chin's help now in 2020, he's the only one who can defeat the virus

dog spoon for sale

this is the song that plays whenever a Chinese man coughs in an plane
 

PETALING JAYA: The government has halted all immigration facilities including issuing visas for Chinese citizens from Wuhan and the areas around Hubei province with immediate effect.

The Prime Minister's Office said the decision to suspend the issuance of visas to China nationals was made to contain the spread of the novel coronavirus 2019 (2019-nCoV).

“The Malaysian government has followed World Health Organisation (WHO) procedures and got the advice of experts to face and handle the spread of this virus.

“Monitoring is done from time to time, and all authorities are doing their best to prevent transmission.

“With the latest information, the government has decided to suspend temporarily all immigration facilities – eNTRY(facility without visa), Visa On Arrival (VOA), e-visa and manual visas to all China nationals from Wuhan city and the surrounding Hubei province.

“This decision was made taking into account that the development of the infection 2019-nCoV in China, especially in said Hubei province, and this takes effect immediately.

“The immigration facilities will be reinstated when the situation returns to normal, ” the Prime Minister's Office said in a statement Monday (Jan 27).

It also said that Wisma Putra will coordinate with the Chinese government on its decision.

The Prime Minister’s Office also cautioned the public against spreading fake information on the disease so as not to cause further alarm and unrest.

In a statement on Facebook, Foreign Minister Datuk Saifuddin Abdullah said he has been in contact with officials from the Malaysian embassy in Beijing as well as the Consulate-General Offices in various cities of China in the effort to assist Malaysians in China.

Malaysia now banning visitors from Hubei. Also, another potential case in Bintulu, which might trigger a complete lockdown of the country if confirmed.

The woman, who hails from Hubei province in China, has been hospitalised for flu-like symptoms after returning from a trip to Wuhan.

She has been working for an energy-production plant in Bintulu for the past two years.

On Jan 11, she went to Wuhan for a work-related trip and on Jan 16, she came back to Sarawak on board a Wuhan-Kota Kinabalu-Bintulu flight

On Sunday (Jan 26), she showed symptoms of flu and was warded in the Bintulu Hospital.

At 4.15pm Sunday, the Bintulu police sent a team of officers to the hospital to find out more about the hospitalised woman after a social media posting claimed that she was a Wuhan virus carrier.

The Bintulu Hospital had extracted samples of her blood and sent it to a lab in Kuala Lumpur.

It is not yet confirmed that she has been infected by the Wuhan virus.
 
If all else fails and you fall to corona chan.
Seppuku is a very good option.

Ok. I'm kidding but in all serious seek medical help. Avoid infecting people and if you're in an area where there is a quarantine going on try to self quarantine if you suspect you caught the wu flu. Yes you can try going to the hospital but please try if possible and call ahead if you suspect you got the wu flu so the er can make preperations for your arrival. By doing this you give medical professionals advance notice they can set up quarantine precautions in advance so they can limit cross contamination to other patients. Literally all hospitals in the West are gearing up and treating this like Ebola. What may just be like a bad flu or cold can actually kill someone who already has a compromised immune system. So please if possible if you have no doubt you may have contracted the wu flu notify medical professionals before you arrive so they can minimize cross contamination.
 
How do you even properly engineer a building in that time frame? Will the concrete even be fully cured by the time they start loading walls? Watch more people get killed from this thing colapsing then from the wuflu.

Concrete reaches a substantial percentage of its design strength very early on. Certain admixtures can speed this process further. During new construction, forms can typically be stripped within a day and by 7 days the concrete reaches 70% of its final strength. You wouldn’t need to overdesign a building by a huge factor in order to take that into account if you need to use it immediately. That, plus International Building Code loading are already very conservative so unless they’re stacking bodies to the ceiling or storing heavy equipment immediately, you’re not going to see dangerous overloading even if the hospital is open for business early.

Combine that with the fact that these buildings don’t need a typical 70 year service life and will likely be abandoned before any long term issues set in.

That said, I’m certain corners are being cut. The scary thing about civil and structural engineering is how easy it is to take shortcuts and make mistakes without it being initially apparent. There’s a famous case study of a 13 story Chinese (what a coincidence!) apartment building that literally fell on it’s side because they undercut the foundation on one side and stacked the fill soil on the other.

88AFB30C-5885-4480-8682-A8578C652F60.jpeg

And this was ironically on the high-end of Chinese construction quality, since, as a government official hilariously pointed out after the collapse, “The building held together despite falling over”.

That did not change the fact that the wrong kind of foundation was used, it was underdesigned, and there were no competent geotechnical engineers around to point out that maybe building a 13 story building on grade then excavating down 20 feet right at its base wasn’t such a great idea. A combination of lack of experienced oversight and disregard for engineering principles make issues like this rampant. For comparison, a US developer can’t even consider an unlicensed structural engineer or contractor; they wouldn’t even be able to get a permit to break ground. The Chinese construction firm responsible for the above disaster had been operating illegally for 5 fucking years, and the building owners did not give a fuck.

Responsible parties were arrested after the fact, but that doesn’t alleviate the corruption of the system that led to the failure. This is a pattern that may be familiar to the people following the current crisis.

The Chinese construction industry is relatively young, and the institutional experience, while growing, is still low. Anybody who’s worked even adjacent to the American construction industry would tell you that your average American contractor is dumb as fuck. Their supervisors tend to be a little brighter, but even up to the structural engineer of record you can end up with people who are capable of making severe errors in judgement. That said, the emphasis on safety is extreme, and the system of oversight is robust. The kind of detailing errors that lead to truly deadly catastrophic failures are honestly few and far between (for new construction at least; poorly maintained, aging infrastructure is a discussion for another time). In general, you’re more likely to have someone in the chain of responsibility who has designed or at least seen a similar system.

Take that away, and reduce the education of every laborer and foreman by about 6 grade levels, and you get things like 70,000 (reported) casualties from a single earthquake.

It’s honestly harrowing to me that literally tens of millions of Chinese people are living in buildings that will kill the fuck out of them in the event of a major earthquake. That’s a lesson the US learned in 1906 in San Francisco, and again in the early 2000’s. It’s an interesting cultural contrast.
 
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Concrete reaches a substantial percentage of its design strength very early on. Certain admixtures can speed this process further. During new construction, forms can typically be stripped within a day and by 7 days the concrete reaches 70% of its final strength. You wouldn’t need to overdesign a building by a huge factor in order to take that into account if you need to use it immediately. That, plus International Building Code loading are already very conservative so unless they’re stacking bodies to the ceiling or storing heavy equipment immediately, you’re not going to see dangerous overloading even if the hospital is open for business early.

Combine that with the fact that these buildings don’t need a typical 70 year service life and will likely be abandoned before any long term issues set in.

That said, I’m certain corners are being cut. The scary thing about civil and structural engineering is how easy it is to take shortcuts and make mistakes without it being initially apparent. There’s a famous case study of a 13 story Chinese (what a coincidence!) apartment building that literally fell on it’s side because they undercut the foundation on one side and stacked the fill soil on the other.

View attachment 1117797
And this was ironically on the high-end of Chinese construction quality, since, as a government official hilariously pointed out after the collapse, “The building held together despite falling over”.

That did not change the fact that the wrong kind of foundation was used, it was underdesigned, and there were no competent geotechnical engineers around to point out that maybe building a 13 story building on grade then excavating down 20 feet right at its base wasn’t such a great idea. A combination of lack of experienced oversight and disregard for engineering principles make issues like this rampant. For comparison, a US developer can’t even consider an unlicensed structural engineer or contractor; they wouldn’t even be able to get a permit to break ground. The Chinese construction firm responsible for the above disaster had been operating illegally for 5 fucking years, and the building owners did not give a fuck.

Responsible parties were arrested after the fact, but that doesn’t alleviate the corruption of the system that led to the failure. This is a pattern that may be familiar to the people following the current crisis.

The Chinese construction industry is relatively young, and the institutional experience, while growing, is still low. Anybody who’s worked even adjacent to the American construction industry would tell you that your average American contractor is dumb as fuck. Their supervisors tend to be a little brighter, but even up to the structural engineer of record you can end up with people who are capable of making severe errors in judgement. That said, the emphasis on safety is extreme, and the system of oversight is robust. The kind of detailing errors that lead to truly deadly catastrophic failures are honestly few and far between (for new construction, poorly maintained, aging infrastructure is a discussion for another time). In general, you’re more likely to have someone in the chain of responsibility who has designed or at least seen a similar system.

Take that away, and reduce the education of every laborer and foreman by about 6 grade levels, and you get things like 70,000 (reported) casualties from a single earthquake.

It’s honestly harrowing to me that literally tens of millions of Chinese people are living in buildings that will kill the fuck out of them in the event of a major earthquake. That’s a lesson the US learned in 1906 in San Francisco, and again in the early 2000’s. It’s an interesting cultural contrast.
I don't think their intending the hospital to be a permanent construction. If anything it's probably for a temporary emergency set up. Good luck on moving medical supplies though if nothing can go in or out.
 
So much for the Chinese Century, huh? :story:

Maybe Null's shilling these past few months was like his counterspell. It deflected Yachewa's curse from the Farms and instead it's rotting the Chinese from the inside.

This was his plan to protect us all along, what a guy.

P.s. thanks for the suit!
 
I don't think their intending the hospital to be a permanent construction. If anything it's probably for a temporary emergency set up. Good luck on moving medical supplies though if nothing can go in or out.
One of the reasons for poor architectural design might be that it's not actually intended to be used.

I don't believe they are building a hospital, as we know the term in the West. I believe they are putting up a place for plague victims to die, kind of like a leper colony.
 
It’s honestly harrowing to me that literally tens of millions of Chinese people are living in buildings that will kill the fuck out of them in the event of a major earthquake. That’s a lesson the US learned in 1906 in San Francisco, and again in the early 2000’s. It’s an interesting cultural contrast.

Even structures built to modern code collapsed during the Loma Prieta and Northridge earthquakes. Earthquakes are more powerful than most people outside seismic zones or the geosciences give them credit for. The elastic potential energy of a continent and/or ocean basin is converted to kinetic energy in a moment; it's on the order of several hundreds to thousands of Hiroshima bombs all detonating at once.
Slapdash buildings can and do collapse at a moment's notice (as was seen during the partial collapse of the Hard Rock Hotel in New Orleans), irrespective of seismic activity. Add to a hastily constructed building with still curing concrete the weight of medical equipment, personnel, and patients and the result is a high risk game of chicken with gravity. In a normal building collapse the bodies of victims can be recovered on a longer time scale (culturally we try to recover them sooner than later; a corpse isn't inherently dangerous, just repulsive and psychologically damaging. The aforementioned Hard Rock Hotel still has a visible corpse trapped in the rubble in downtown New Orleans).
In a hypothetical building collapse of a plague hospital the bodies of victims will be harboring virulent disease and could massively increase the potential for exposure as victims' bodies decompose. Retrieval and disposal of the deceased would be paramount to contain the pathogen but may bring already strained emergency resources to their breaking point.

Either way this 6-day hospital is not a good idea - it's been said before but a tent city is the way to go for mass triage - but I've come to expect nothing but exceptionalism from the CCP.

EDIT: Grammar
 
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Concrete reaches a substantial percentage of its design strength very early on. Certain admixtures can speed this process further. During new construction, forms can typically be stripped within a day and by 7 days the concrete reaches 70% of its final strength. You wouldn’t need to overdesign a building by a huge factor in order to take that into account if you need to use it immediately. That, plus International Building Code loading are already very conservative so unless they’re stacking bodies to the ceiling or storing heavy equipment immediately, you’re not going to see dangerous overloading even if the hospital is open for business early.

Combine that with the fact that these buildings don’t need a typical 70 year service life and will likely be abandoned before any long term issues set in.

That said, I’m certain corners are being cut. The scary thing about civil and structural engineering is how easy it is to take shortcuts and make mistakes without it being initially apparent. There’s a famous case study of a 13 story Chinese (what a coincidence!) apartment building that literally fell on it’s side because they undercut the foundation on one side and stacked the fill soil on the other.

View attachment 1117797
And this was ironically on the high-end of Chinese construction quality, since, as a government official hilariously pointed out after the collapse, “The building held together despite falling over”.

That did not change the fact that the wrong kind of foundation was used, it was underdesigned, and there were no competent geotechnical engineers around to point out that maybe building a 13 story building on grade then excavating down 20 feet right at its base wasn’t such a great idea. A combination of lack of experienced oversight and disregard for engineering principles make issues like this rampant. For comparison, a US developer can’t even consider an unlicensed structural engineer or contractor; they wouldn’t even be able to get a permit to break ground. The Chinese construction firm responsible for the above disaster had been operating illegally for 5 fucking years, and the building owners did not give a fuck.

Responsible parties were arrested after the fact, but that doesn’t alleviate the corruption of the system that led to the failure. This is a pattern that may be familiar to the people following the current crisis.

The Chinese construction industry is relatively young, and the institutional experience, while growing, is still low. Anybody who’s worked even adjacent to the American construction industry would tell you that your average American contractor is dumb as fuck. Their supervisors tend to be a little brighter, but even up to the structural engineer of record you can end up with people who are capable of making severe errors in judgement. That said, the emphasis on safety is extreme, and the system of oversight is robust. The kind of detailing errors that lead to truly deadly catastrophic failures are honestly few and far between (for new construction, poorly maintained, aging infrastructure is a discussion for another time). In general, you’re more likely to have someone in the chain of responsibility who has designed or at least seen a similar system.

Take that away, and reduce the education of every laborer and foreman by about 6 grade levels, and you get things like 70,000 (reported) casualties from a single earthquake.

It’s honestly harrowing to me that literally tens of millions of Chinese people are living in buildings that will kill the fuck out of them in the event of a major earthquake. That’s a lesson the US learned in 1906 in San Francisco, and again in the early 2000’s. It’s an interesting cultural contrast.
i'm no architect but wouldn't it be cheaper and faster to simply transport in barracks as well as set up medical tents? feel like building an entire new building and putting so much time and effort into it is just a waste if it's just temporary anyway
 
Considering getting a vogmask or something of the like for my mom if it gets widespread stateside. We live in the middle of BFE, but she's immunocompromised and I'm a worrywart. :(

Don't get a vogmask, get the real deal shit. Vogmasks apparently aren't very effective in the grand scheme of things, if your mom's exposed (or any of us for that matter) she wouldn't stand a chance.
I hope you guys stay safe! :heart-full:
 
This feels like the start of a game of plague inc.
The company behind Plague, Inc insists it is not an authoritative source. http://archive.li/E0VL0

The Coronavirus outbreak in China is deeply concerning and we’ve received a lot of questions from players and the media.

Plague Inc. has been out for eight years now and whenever there is an outbreak of disease we see an increase in players, as people seek to find out more about how diseases spread and to understand the complexities of viral outbreaks.

We specifically designed the game to be realistic and informative, while not sensationalising serious real-world issues. This has been recognised by the CDC and other leading medical organisations around the world.

However, please remember that Plague Inc. is a game, not a scientific model and that the current coronavirus outbreak is a very real situation which is impacting a huge number of people. We would always recommend that players get their information directly from local and global health authorities.

You can find out more about the CDC and Plague Inc. here: https://blogs.cdc.gov/publichealthmatters/2013/04/plague-inc/

You can find out more information about Coronavirus here: https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019
 
Sorry for doublepost, don't have delete or edit privileges - I worded that wrong. I meant to say that if we all wore vogmasks including your mom, their effectiveness sucks and none of us would stand a chance. Sorry to sound blunt and insensitive. :)
 
i'm no architect but wouldn't it be cheaper and faster to simply transport in barracks as well as set up medical tents? feel like building an entire new building and putting so much time and effort into it is just a waste if it's just temporary anyway
It depends on the scale. We’re talking pretty substantial populations under quarantine here. I’m betting the local supply of concrete and rebar is substantially more robust than that of canvas and hollow steel sections, assuming they don’t have tents on hand.

I’m not saying a 7 day hospital is the best idea, I’m just saying it’s not totally unsafe in its face, and has advantages. It’s durable, has a smaller footprint, and is more sanitary in terms of containment. If they intend to quarantine for months, then it makes more sense. If anything I think this signals their intention to do just that.

A concrete building is also resistant to a panicked stampede, or patient escape, which is also a sobering thought. A system of tents spread out to house the same amount of beds as a vertically constructed temporary hospital would also make for a harder perimeter to control.

Let that one sink in.

Even structures built to modern code collapsed during the Loma Prieta and Northridge earthquakes. Earthquakes are more powerful than most people outside seismic zones or the geosciences give them credit for. The elastic potential energy of a continent and/or ocean basin is converted to kinetic energy in a moment; it's on the order of several hundreds to thousands of Hiroshima bombs all detonating at once.
Slapdash buildings can and do collapse at a moment's notice (as was seen during the partial collapse of the Hard Rock Hotel in New Orleans), irrespective of seismic activity. Add to a hastily constructed building with still curing concrete the weight of medical equipment, personnel, and patients and the result is a high risk game of chicken with gravity. In a normal building collapse the bodies of victims can be recovered on a longer time scale (culturally we try to recover them sooner than later; a corpse isn't inherently dangerous, just repulsive and psychologically damaging. The aforementioned Hard Rock Hotel still has a visible corpse trapped in the rubble in downtown New Orleans).
In a hypothetical building collapse of a plague hospital the bodies of victims will be harboring virulent disease and could massively increase the potential for exposure as victims' bodies decompose. Retrieval and disposal of the deceased would be paramount to contain the pathogen but may bring already strained emergency resources to their breaking point.

Either way this 6-day hospital is not a good idea - it's been said before but a tent city is the way to go for mass triage - but I've come to expect nothing but exceptionalism from the CCP.

EDIT: Grammar

I agree that seismic design principles aren’t foolproof but there’s no denying that we’re substantially more educated and cautious about it than we used to.

And yes, there are risks to rapid construction, but it’s not an impossible feat, especially if they’re working off a previous pattern. I’m not confident they’re capable of accomplishing this, but I sympathize with the people making the decision.

Tents may be more a tenable option, but I would also not discount the possibility that the materials for them may simply not be available in time. Especially in enough volume to deal with the number of patients that’s been speculated.

EDIT: There’s also the issue of services like running water and electricity. The more spread out a tent complex gets, the harder it is to install and manage everything. I don’t work with utilities personally so I don’t know how much it would tip the scales, but it’s something to consider.
 
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i'm no architect but wouldn't it be cheaper and faster to simply transport in barracks as well as set up medical tents? feel like building an entire new building and putting so much time and effort into it is just a waste if it's just temporary anyway

Cynic in me says it is at least as much a publicity stunt as it is a genuine attempt to deliver medical assistance to the area.
 
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