Why Catholicism?

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I am for the most part only anti-protestant due to the amount of degeneracy and miscegenation stemming from it, like the current troon pastor in the church of england. The orthodox I respect as they respect tradition as much as they can despite their churches being ultimately having to bow down to their state. I prefer the catholic church in that it has so far avoided degeneracy aside from the current spic that is in charge and their rape abuse, they have managed to remain mostly a religious institution and not be under the control of the governments that want population control... that and plus many catholics i know are white from large families so I'm hoping there will be more of them and we get a more conservative pope and not another argentinian clown who should have only remained a bishop
 
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Crysocyan said:
I have seen Mary, she's more than a saint. And she can intercede in our lives, unlike regular saints. She has touched me, and she is our mother.
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Jesus said no one comes to the Father except through me. There's no "or also Mary". She was blessed among women for birthing the Savior, but she nevertheless "sinned and fell short of the glory of G-d." She's still just a human.

Mary as co-redemptrix is abject heresy. Catholicism needs to stamp out Mariolatry.
 
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m1ddl3m4rch said:
Jesus said no one comes to the Father except through me. There's no "or also Mary". She was blessed among women for birthing the Savior, but she nevertheless "sinned and fell short of the glory of G-d." She's still just a human.

Mary as co-redemptrix is abject heresy. Catholicism needs to stamp out Mariolatry.
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I never said that she was our co-redeemer.
 
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m1ddl3m4rch said:
Jesus said no one comes to the Father except through me. There's no "or also Mary". She was blessed among women for birthing the Savior, but she nevertheless "sinned and fell short of the glory of G-d." She's still just a human.

Mary as co-redemptrix is abject heresy. Catholicism needs to stamp out Mariolatry.
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I've never heard a Catholic put it that way, it seems perverse to equate a mere creation, however perfect with the Creator.
That Mary could be a direct path to the Father or guide/teach/pray for anyone to do anything but be obedient to The Son whom she bore, Jesus, seems to contradict any right traditions about Mary I've encountered.
I would say by consenting to bear God in her womb she clearly had a vital and unique role in God's plan for redeeming all creation by his Son. In that sense at least she is a helper in redemption, a co-redemptrix by the definitions I've heard. Being unique or vital does not imply equal, God chose Mary, Mary chose to obey the perfect will of God.

Sarcastic Niggerman said:
Inter-sect theological discussion turns to slapfighting all too often. In the spirit of the Sabbath, maybe everyone should forgive each other, go eat their tendies, and take a nap.
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The Lords Day! The Sabbath was the seventh, the Lord's Day is the eighth!
 
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Balalaika Z Bree said:
I've never heard a Catholic put it that way, it seems perverse to equate a mere creation, however perfect with the Creator.
That Mary could be a direct path to the Father or guide/teach/pray for anyone to do anything but be obedient to The Son whom she bore, Jesus, seems to contradict any right traditions about Mary I've encountered.
I would say by consenting to bear God in her womb she clearly had a vital and unique role in God's plan for redeeming all creation by his Son. In that sense at least she is a helper in redemption, a co-redemptrix by the definitions I've heard. Being unique or vital does not imply equal, God chose Mary, Mary chose to obey the perfect will of God.
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All believers choose to obey the perfect will of G-d. Mary was not an exception. Mary was just human, she shouldn't be viewed as somehow special for obeying when that is what all believers are called to do. Praying to her or viewing her as even a partial conduit for redemption just because she had a baby is stupid and heresy. Why not keep going and make redemption a franchise and give pieces of it to all of Jesus' antecedents? G-d says he will not share his glory with another. To give credit for redemption to Mary when the redeemer was simply one of her descendants is to give away even a piece of what G-d says he will not share. Catholics are up their ass on this one. Not to mention selling forgiveness for money. Pope stuff isn't gonna gild itself.
 
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m1ddl3m4rch said:
Mary was just human, she shouldn't be viewed as somehow special for obeying when that is what all believers are called to do.
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Except that's exactly what it said in Scripture.
St. Luke said:
And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
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Also you have an improper understanding of the second commandment
 
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Crysocyan said:
Except that's exactly what it said in Scripture.
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She was favored and blessed as a Jew in the line of David to bear the redeeming king. Favored doesn't mean should be prayed to. Blessed doesn't mean should be worshipped. It is a special thing to give birth to the redeemer, but it does not confer divinity to you, nor does it make your son's deeds your deeds.
Crysocyan said:
Also you have an improper understanding of the second commandment
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8 I am the LORD, that is My name; and My glory will I not give to another, neither My praise to graven images.
 
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m1ddl3m4rch said:
All believers choose to obey the perfect will of G-d. Mary was not an exception. Mary was just human, she shouldn't be viewed as somehow special for obeying when that is what all believers are called to do. Praying to her or viewing her as even a partial conduit for redemption just because she had a baby is stupid and heresy.
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Her obedience, accepting God's will, allowing the incarnation, that is a unique and special example of obedience and ought to be celebrated. All generations will call her blessed!
Even if God gave her no choice it would be the ultimate special motherhood the way I see it. No other creature in all Creation is mother or father to any or all of the Persons of God, all we can claim is to be a son or daughter.
Not a partial conduit for redemption, if you mean Jesus as a conduit for redemption, but the mother of the Word made flesh, God the Son, Jesus. As a vessel and Ark for the Word made flesh I suppose she is a "conduit" for the Person of the Redeemer. She became his mother when he took a human nature from her.
please don't confuse God the Fathers eternal Fatherhood with one of his creatures becoming a parent in time.
m1ddl3m4rch said:
Why not keep going and make redemption a franchise and give pieces of it to all of Jesus' antecedents? G-d says he will not share his glory with another. To give credit for redemption to Mary when the redeemer was simply one of her descendants is to give away even a piece of what G-d says he will not share. Catholics are up their ass on this one. Not to mention selling forgiveness for money. Pope stuff isn't gonna gild itself.
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That argument might work if Jesus was as in some of the heretical false models, like adoptionism. Abuses are hardly a solid basis for an argument against indulgences. Christ Jesus warned that a man might not serve both God and Mammon. The Church could greatly benefit from more vows of poverty.
 
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m1ddl3m4rch said:
She was favored and blessed as a Jew in the line of David to bear the redeeming king. Favored doesn't mean should be prayed to. Blessed doesn't mean should be worshipped. It is a special thing to give birth to the redeemer, but it does not confer divinity to you, nor does it make your son's deeds your deeds.
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I agree. But she deserves reverence, still. Rather than worship.
 
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Crysocyan said:
I agree. But she deserves reverence, still. Rather than worship.
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The words worship, reverence, and prayer can mean different things to different people.
I think she deserves all the worship and reverence due to a creature, which is precisely none of the worship and reverence due to God our Creator alone.
Adoration vs. veneration are similar terms you'll find used. If people don't agree on what the Communion of Saints means then the traditions can't be understood in the same way.
 
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