Opinion Why America needs a hate speech law - "Democracy Dies In Darkness" indeed...

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When I was a journalist, I loved Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.’s assertion that the Constitution and the First Amendment are not just about protecting “free thought for those who agree with us but freedom for the thought that we hate.”

But as a government official traveling around the world championing the virtues of free speech, I came to see how our First Amendment standard is an outlier. Even the most sophisticated Arab diplomats that I dealt with did not understand why the First Amendment allows someone to burn a Koran. Why, they asked me, would you ever want to protect that?

It’s a fair question. Yes, the First Amendment protects the “thought that we hate,” but it should not protect hateful speech that can cause violence by one group against another. In an age when everyone has a megaphone, that seems like a design flaw.

It is important to remember that our First Amendment doesn’t just protect the good guys; our foremost liberty also protects any bad actors who hide behind it to weaken our society. In the weeks leading up to the 2016 election, Russia’s Internet Research Agency planted false stories hoping they would go viral. They did. Russian agents assumed fake identities, promulgated false narratives and spread lies on Twitter and Facebook, all protected by the First Amendment.

The Russians understood that our free press and its reflex toward balance and fairness would enable Moscow to slip its destructive ideas into our media ecosystem. When Putin said back in 2014 that there were no Russian troops in Crimea — an outright lie — he knew our media would report it, and we did.

Watch more!
Investigative journalist Maria Ressa warns that the mass manipulation of social media accounts in the Philippines was a testing ground for changing power structures globally and is a threat to democracy. Ressa is the founder of the news website Rappler and a 2018 Time magazine Person of the Year. (Joy Sharon Yi/The Washington Post)

That’s partly because the intellectual underpinning of the First Amendment was engineered for a simpler era. The amendment rests on the notion that the truth will win out in what Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas called “the marketplace of ideas.” This “marketplace” model has a long history going back to 17th-century English intellectual John Milton, but in all that time, no one ever quite explained how good ideas drive out bad ones, how truth triumphs over falsehood.

Milton, an early opponent of censorship, said truth would prevail in a “free and open encounter.” A century later, the framers believed that this marketplace was necessary for people to make informed choices in a democracy. Somehow, magically, truth would emerge. The presumption has always been that the marketplace would offer a level playing field. But in the age of social media, that landscape is neither level nor fair.

On the Internet, truth is not optimized. On the Web, it’s not enough to battle falsehood with truth; the truth doesn’t always win. In the age of social media, the marketplace model doesn’t work. A 2016 Stanford study showed that 82 percent of middle schoolers couldn’t distinguish between an ad labeled “sponsored content” and an actual news story. Only a quarter of high school students could tell the difference between an actual verified news site and one from a deceptive account designed to look like a real one.

Since World War II, many nations have passed laws to curb the incitement of racial and religious hatred. These laws started out as protections against the kinds of anti-Semitic bigotry that gave rise to the Holocaust. We call them hate speech laws, but there’s no agreed-upon definition of what hate speech actually is. In general, hate speech is speech that attacks and insults people on the basis of race, religion, ethnic origin and sexual orientation.

I think it’s time to consider these statutes. The modern standard of dangerous speech comes from Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969) and holds that speech that directly incites “imminent lawless action” or is likely to do so can be restricted. Domestic terrorists such as Dylann Roof and Omar Mateen and the El Paso shooter were consumers of hate speech. Speech doesn’t pull the trigger, but does anyone seriously doubt that such hateful speech creates a climate where such acts are more likely?

Let the debate begin. Hate speech has a less violent, but nearly as damaging, impact in another way: It diminishes tolerance. It enables discrimination. Isn’t that, by definition, speech that undermines the values that the First Amendment was designed to protect: fairness, due process, equality before the law? Why shouldn’t the states experiment with their own version of hate speech statutes to penalize speech that deliberately insults people based on religion, race, ethnicity and sexual orientation?

All speech is not equal. And where truth cannot drive out lies, we must add new guardrails. I’m all for protecting “thought that we hate,” but not speech that incites hate. It undermines the very values of a fair marketplace of ideas that the First Amendment is designed to protect.
 
If they want that kind of law so badly, then amend the constitution already they can leave the country.
Ftfy. They want that shit so bad? They can move to a totalitarian shithole with those laws, like Canada or the British Caliphate.
 
This isn't even a slippery slope. This is a head first swan dive into the bottom of the abyss. Notice how his justifications went from "inciting violence" to "Imminent lawless action" to "deliberate insults". So simply just saying " Hey, I think you're an asshole." can now become an offense worthy of jail time. Send this guy to China so he can work on his social credit score, then get all picachu faced when ends up in a salt mine for offending someone.
 
Hate speech sounds like such a loose and interpretable term which varies depending on someone's definition of good and bad and morals, not a big fan of the term.
 
I admit, I'm not a fan of using the word nigger. But I do like using the word niggardly, and I honestly don't even care if others use the damn word nigger.

What's that saying? "It reflects more upon yourself than others?" Some shit like that. You have plenty of people here saying niggers but alt left buckfucker fudgepacking closet racist homos will never admit to conversations that they think black people smell like shit without ruining their moral "purity" as much as a church wino soccer mom upkeeps a facade to look like an ideal citizen before going to town with the other hens in the gossip farm.

Turns out faggotass motherfuckers can't handle the truth. Open the fucking floodgates. Let them fuckin' have it coming to them.
 
Just so much wrong to quote, my answers are in yellow.
Original Article said:
When I was a journalist, I loved Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.’s assertion that the Constitution and the First Amendment are not just about protecting “free thought for those who agree with us but freedom for the thought that we hate.” It's interesting here that what he loved about Holmes assertion is all about "thought".

But as a government official traveling around the world championing the virtues of free speech, I came to see how our First Amendment standard is an outlier. Yup. Even the most sophisticated Arab diplomats that I dealt with did not understand why the First Amendment allows someone to burn a Koran. That's because they are Muslim. Why, they asked me, would you ever want to protect that? Because we aren't Muslim.

It’s a fair question. Yes, the First Amendment protects the “thought that we hate,” (no, speech) but it should not protect hateful speech that can cause violence by one group against another. No, it literally says speech. In an age when everyone has a megaphone, that seems like a design flaw.* Working as intended.

It is important to remember that our First Amendment doesn’t just protect the good guys; our foremost liberty also protects any bad actors who hide behind it to weaken our society. Fuck anybody that says "hiding behind free speech and "lawyering up". Those things are absolutely why they are in the constitution in the first place. In the weeks leading up to the 2016 election, Russia’s Internet Research Agency planted false stories hoping they would go viral. They did. Russian agents assumed fake identities, promulgated false narratives and spread lies on Twitter and Facebook, all protected by the First Amendment.
I would like to see evidence that that these stupid Russian fake stories on Twitter and Facebook actually convinced people to not vote for Hillary, and it wasn't just because she's a terrible person. They can't show it because their is none. Russia wanted us to second guess our democratic process, and the media is happily helping that narrative, which begs the question, are they stupid, or are they complicated?

The Russians understood that our free press and its reflex toward balance and fairness would enable Moscow to slip its destructive ideas into our media ecosystem. When Putin said back in 2014 that there were no Russian troops in Crimea — an outright lie — he knew our media would report it, and we did. You did. Nice self own.

Watch more!
Investigative journalist Maria Ressa warns that the mass manipulation of social media accounts in the Philippines was a testing ground for changing power structures globally and is a threat to democracy. Ressa is the founder of the news website Rappler and a 2018 Time magazine Person of the Year. (Joy Sharon Yi/The Washington Post) I guess this is an ad, so pro globalism or pro democracy? Fuck it, I don't care.

That’s partly because the intellectual underpinning of the First Amendment was engineered for a simpler era. The amendment rests on the notion that the truth will win out in what Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas called “the marketplace of ideas.” This “marketplace” model has a long history going back to 17th-century English intellectual John Milton, but in all that time, no one ever quite explained how good ideas drive out bad ones, how truth triumphs over falsehood.
What explanation is he looking for? Good idea = don't touch a hot stove; Bad idea = touching a hot stove. Truth = men have a penis and women have a vagina; falsehood = men can have a vagina and women can have a penis. That explains how that fucking works.

Milton, an early opponent of censorship, said truth would prevail in a “free and open encounter.” A century later, the framers believed that this marketplace was necessary for people to make informed choices in a democracy. Somehow, magically, truth would emerge. The presumption has always been that the marketplace would offer a level playing field. But in the age of social media, that landscape is neither level nor fair. *"In an age when everyone has a megaphone, that seems like a design flaw." Leftist double-think. Is free speech on social media a place where everyone has a megaphone and gives the "wrong" type of people the chance to speak a design flaw, or is free speech on social media a place where the "right" people get drowned out, making it neither level nor fair?

On the Internet, truth is not optimized. On the Web, it’s not enough to battle falsehood with truth; the truth doesn’t always win. In the age of social media, the marketplace model doesn’t work. A 2016 Stanford study showed that 82 percent of middle schoolers couldn’t distinguish between an ad labeled “sponsored content” and an actual news story. Middle schoolers don't vote for a reason. Only a quarter of high school students could tell the difference between an actual verified news site and one from a deceptive account designed to look like a real one. High schoolers don't vote for a reason, so stop suggesting we lower the voting age to 16.
Plus, deception in advertisement has been a thing way before social media.


Since World War II, many nations have passed laws to curb the incitement of racial and religious hatred. Many nations had monarchies, we haven't, on purpose. These laws started out as protections against the kinds of anti-Semitic bigotry that gave rise to the Holocaust. We call them hate speech laws, but there’s no agreed-upon definition of what hate speech actually is. Yup, exactly the problem. In general, hate speech is speech that attacks and insults people on the basis of race, religion, ethnic origin and sexual orientation. Insults? Yup, exactly the problem.

I think it’s time to consider these statutes. The modern standard of dangerous speech comes from Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969) and holds that speech that directly incites “imminent lawless action” or is likely to do so can be restricted. Domestic terrorists such as Dylann Roof and Omar Mateen and the El Paso shooter were consumers of hate speech. Fucker, your own quote "imminent lawless action" is not the same as "consumers of hate speech". Pointing to a guy wearing a MAGA hat and saying, "everybody, go beat him up" is not the same as watching Stephen Colbert making fun of Trump. Speech doesn’t pull the trigger, but does anyone seriously doubt that such hateful speech creates a climate where such acts are more likely? I seriously doubt it because I'm old enough to remember metal music makes you a Satan worshiper; D&D makes you a cultist; rap makes you a gang banger; violent video games make you a school shooter, and Beavis and Butthead make you Beavis and Butthead.

Let the debate begin. Um, no debate here. Start fucking with free speech is not going to end well *Bane voice* for yooou. Hate speech has a less violent, but nearly as damaging, impact in another way: No. It diminishes tolerance. It enables discrimination. Isn’t that, by definition, speech that undermines the values that the First Amendment was designed to protect No: fairness No , due process 5th, equality before the law 14th ? Why shouldn’t the states experiment with their own version of hate speech statutes to penalize speech that deliberately insults people based on religion, race, ethnicity and sexual orientation? Going with the states rights argument, eh? Now I feel like I'm being trolled, and this whole article anti-state rights. I'm going to call his bluff and hope his state does it. Watch those state bleed tax payer dollars.

All speech is not equal. Oh my. And where truth cannot drive out lies, we must add new guardrails. Oh fuck! I’m all for protecting “thought that we hate,” but not speech that incites hate. It undermines the very values of a fair marketplace of ideas that the First Amendment is designed to protect. You're allowed to think it, but you better not say it, that's what the First Amendment is really about.
I've read this twice, the second as I was putting in my comments. I don't know who the author is, and he starts out as seemingly pro-American, then seems to go off on an anti-free speech screed. I really hope this is all trying to troll people and not what he really think will make the world better.
 
So what if falsehood does beat out truth, people have a right to believe things that are wrong. Otherwise you'd have to jail your beloved muslims for believing in Muhammad's flying horse.
Caveat Emptor you fucking tard, if people are willing to believe stupid things then they believe stupid things, it's not up to the self styled tyrants like you and your friends to force them to believe the 'correct' thing
 
"Lets say" Liz Warren wins
Lets further stipulate dems get a senate majority
I am sure she can appoint 4 more dems (taking the court to 13) to change all that

It remains to be seen whether the court would allow itself to even be packed. They certainly understand it would permanently lose any legitimacy and the one thing they all care about is that their rulings continue to have weight. There are many constitutional arguments could be made that packing a court as opposed to expanding it for an actual reason is unconstitutional. Especially given that they've already established the precedent that "motive matters" even if something was otherwise legal when the courts have struck down various Trump measures like census citizenship etc.
 
It remains to be seen whether the court would allow itself to even be packed. They certainly understand it would permanently lose any legitimacy and the one thing they all care about is that their rulings continue to have weight. There are many constitutional arguments could be made that packing a court as opposed to expanding it for an actual reason is unconstitutional. Especially given that they've already established the precedent that "motive matters" even if something was otherwise legal when the courts have struck down various Trump measures like census citizenship etc.
The court can't stop itself from being packed

and it would lose legitimacy with the people......but would the folks who want hate speech laws care?
 
Of course it can. Any attempt to pack it would generate numerous lawsuits which would end up eventually being heard by themselves. If they rule you can't pack SCOTUS, you can't pack SCOTUS.
Who would have standing to sue over this?
How would this not be a political question (and thus unjusticable)?
@AnOminous
 
Restricting speech is never about threats like "I command my subscribers to go kill this person" because we already have incitement laws to cover that. And it's never about slurs like "nigger". It's about illegalizing political positions that threaten the supremacy of the ruling party. If you make "nigger" illegal, that's just the pretense, the real goal is to say this or that position on gun control or immigration or health care or whatever is equally offensive and hurtful to the slur, therefore you cannot say it and your chosen politicians can't run it in their platform. This is only and always what it's about. So long as I have the freedom to say nigger, then I also have the freedom to argue my case about why my ideas are good and it is you assholes who are the real racists.
 
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