Warcraft III: Refunded General - How one company managed to mess up a remaster of a 17 year old game.

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Fougaro said:
I can actually see something workable done, but for most part you're right. I personally kinda liked the primal zerg arc.
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I don't see any way in which de-infesting Kerrigan doesn't kill the stakes and reverse her character growth. Also the primal Zerg arc felt suspiciously like they were trying to set up a Zerg race as playable in World of Starcraft.

GethN7 said:
Thing is, she was never COMPLETELY de-infested. She got most of the changes reverted, but still retained some Zerg DNA, she just had the sociopathy from her initial infestation removed.

When she got re-Zerged back to her old self (only purple this time), this time she retained her conscience and this time she didn't have to worry about her connection to the Swarm being used against her.

That's logical. Granted, I can see where people would hate what happened to her character after that, but the logic behind that does hold.
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The problem is she wasn't a sociopath because she was infested until Wings of Liberty. She was a sociopath because of who she was and what she'd been through.

Plus every thing to get us to that point is stupid. Mengsk actively helping a guy undermine his entire empire and make things fall apart. Mengsk's son wanting to become famous and loved by...rehabilitating a mass murdering alien monster. Kerrigan, who is steam rolling the sector as the winner of the Broodwar who has had years to sit and build, is defeated in a direct assault on her main base of operations.

It's crap.
 
As always
Shin megami tensei wins again bay beeeeeh
imagine.jpg
 
Your Weird Fetish said:
I don't see any way in which de-infesting Kerrigan doesn't kill the stakes and reverse her character growth. Also the primal Zerg arc felt suspiciously like they were trying to set up a Zerg race as playable in World of Starcraft.


The problem is she wasn't a sociopath because she was infested until Wings of Liberty. She was a sociopath because of who she was and what she'd been through.

Plus every thing to get us to that point is stupid. Mengsk actively helping a guy undermine his entire empire and make things fall apart. Mengsk's son wanting to become famous and loved by...rehabilitating a mass murdering alien monster. Kerrigan, who is steam rolling the sector as the winner of the Broodwar who has had years to sit and build, is defeated in a direct assault on her main base of operations.

It's crap.
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I disagree partially. If you look over her behavior in the first game and Brood War, she was like night and day after becoming Zerged. She went from decent girl with a conscience to using the hell out of everyone without giving a damn. It's established being infested is a form of mind control, and given Kerrigan was the Overmind's personal project, makes sense hers would be an especially powerful case of this. Further, notice there is not a single point post-infestation in the original game she ever stops and reflects on how nasty she's become, except to go "well, the world hates me, so let's run with this".

It isn't until post WoL that she starts showing a conscience again.

I'll grant Mengsk being a dumbass made no damn sense. Valerian was, in part, letting his inner explorer/scientist override his common sense, but yeah, past that his excuses wear thin. As for Kerrigan getting her ass kicked, there is a small bit of plausibility. She spent a lot of time just sitting on her butt and basically letting her skills dull, and when you roll up to her front door she's arrogant enough to throw caution to the wind and gets curbstomped for her hubris.

That aside, I agree it still comes off kinda stupid of her.
 
GethN7 said:
I disagree partially. If you look over her behavior in the first game and Brood War, she was like night and day after becoming Zerged. She went from decent girl with a conscience to using the hell out of everyone without giving a damn. It's established being infested is a form of mind control, and given Kerrigan was the Overmind's personal project, makes sense hers would be an especially powerful case of this. Further, notice there is not a single point post-infestation in the original game she ever stops and reflects on how nasty she's become, except to go "well, the world hates me, so let's run with this".

It isn't until post WoL that she starts showing a conscience again.

I'll grant Mengsk being a dumbass made no damn sense. Valerian was, in part, letting his inner explorer/scientist override his common sense, but yeah, past that his excuses wear thin. As for Kerrigan getting her ass kicked, there is a small bit of plausibility. She spent a lot of time just sitting on her butt and basically letting her skills dull, and when you roll up to her front door she's arrogant enough to throw caution to the wind and gets curbstomped for her hubris.

That aside, I agree it still comes off kinda stupid of her.
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She was abandoned and betrayed by the person that from her POV saved her from the Confederacy and turned into a science project for who knows how long. That's enough to explain a change of attitude and allegiance. She knows damn well what she is when she emerges from the chrysalis, says outright that she likes it before she warns Raynor to stay away from her, and lets him escape. Later she even seems to briefly become disgusted with herself after killing Fenix and getting Raynor to swear vengeance. The latter bit is with the original Overmind dead. The Overmind who has been quoted in this thread as having left her will as intact as possible other than an overriding inability to deny the Overmind itself.

Before Broodwar it's dubious. But Broodwar Kerrigan is all her. And it's far more interesting that way.

Edit for more sperging: The military and demographic situation in the sector is a total shitshow. By Wings of Liberty, after years of brutal warfare, the Terran population in the region is apparently in the billions. It wasn't like that even at the start of Starcraft 1 before the Protoss and Zerg show up. Most of the worlds the terrans had access to were marginal at best. They scraped by how they could but they were not a thriving civilization except perhaps on Tarsonis and Korhal. The former is completely consumed by the Zerg and the latter was extensively nuked in recent history, and then possibly again when the UED invades.

Tassadar held off on burning more worlds in part because he was afraid he was going to render terrans extinct.

Yet suddenly the remnants of the remnants of the remnants of what Mengsk was able to scrape together is able to charge right into Char and just fuck everything up even before activating the Macguffin? Bullshit.

The only way this makes sense is if numerous hybrids are already awake and Kerrigan, as the most powerful person in the sector, is taking the brunt of the damage. She gets wrecked by the hybrids then ironically taken out from behind. Calls for uniting against a bigger threat naturally fall on deaf ears because...well, look what she did last time. She becomes her own downfall due to her prior betrayals and maybe, just maybe, could start working on something like a redemption arc after losing everything again.

That story practically writes itself actually but Blizzard totally fucked it up.
 
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Your Weird Fetish said:
She was abandoned and betrayed by the person that from her POV saved her from the Confederacy and turned into a science project for who knows how long. That's enough to explain a change of attitude and allegiance. She knows damn well what she is when she emerges from the chrysalis, says outright that she likes it before she warns Raynor to stay away from her, and lets him escape. Later she even seems to briefly become disgusted with herself after killing Fenix and getting Raynor to swear vengeance. The latter bit is with the original Overmind dead. The Overmind who has been quoted in this thread as having left her will as intact as possible other than an overriding inability to deny the Overmind itself.

Before Broodwar it's dubious. But Broodwar Kerrigan is all her. And it's far more interesting that way.

Edit for more sperging: The military and demographic situation in the sector is a total shitshow. By Wings of Liberty, after years of brutal warfare, the Terran population in the region is apparently in the billions. It wasn't like that even at the start of Starcraft 1 before the Protoss and Zerg show up. Most of the worlds the terrans had access to were marginal at best. They scraped by how they could but they were not a thriving civilization except perhaps on Tarsonis and Korhal. The former is completely consumed by the Zerg and the latter was extensively nuked in recent history, and then possibly again when the UED invades.

Tassadar held off on burning more worlds in part because he was afraid he was going to render terrans extinct.

Yet suddenly the remnants of the remnants of the remnants of what Mengsk was able to scrape together is able to charge right into Char and just fuck everything up even before activating the Macguffin? Bullshit.
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Now you've argued me into a corner on several points.

As for her actions in Brood War, points duly noted.

And yeah, I also noticed that bizarre disconnect between SC1 and SC2 on humanity's overall population. SC1 seemed to have humanity just barely scraping by population wise on a good day, and they are doing even better by SC2 despite only four or so years apparently passing since the end of Brood War.
 
Your Weird Fetish said:
She was abandoned and betrayed by the person that from her POV saved her from the Confederacy and turned into a science project for who knows how long. That's enough to explain a change of attitude and allegiance. She knows damn well what she is when she emerges from the chrysalis, says outright that she likes it before she warns Raynor to stay away from her, and lets him escape. Later she even seems to briefly become disgusted with herself after killing Fenix and getting Raynor to swear vengeance. The latter bit is with the original Overmind dead. The Overmind who has been quoted in this thread as having left her will as intact as possible other than an overriding inability to deny the Overmind itself.

Before Broodwar it's dubious. But Broodwar Kerrigan is all her. And it's far more interesting that way.

Edit for more sperging: The military and demographic situation in the sector is a total shitshow. By Wings of Liberty, after years of brutal warfare, the Terran population in the region is apparently in the billions. It wasn't like that even at the start of Starcraft 1 before the Protoss and Zerg show up. Most of the worlds the terrans had access to were marginal at best. They scraped by how they could but they were not a thriving civilization except perhaps on Tarsonis and Korhal. The former is completely consumed by the Zerg and the latter was extensively nuked in recent history, and then possibly again when the UED invades.

Tassadar held off on burning more worlds in part because he was afraid he was going to render terrans extinct.

Yet suddenly the remnants of the remnants of the remnants of what Mengsk was able to scrape together is able to charge right into Char and just fuck everything up even before activating the Macguffin? Bullshit.
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You put more thought into the geopolitics of the setting in this post than the entirety of the writing team for the past two decades, IMO.

The one thing that might explain the sudden resurgence of Terrans post Brood War is the assumption that the UED actually brought with them civilians to run things as well. Given that only the retreating fleet was annihilated, the remaining UED presence itself might have been absorbed into the new Terran Dominion.

But yeah, it's still exceptional even with that factored in.
 
GethN7 said:
Now you've argued me into a corner on several points.

As for her actions in Brood War, points duly noted.

And yeah, I also noticed that bizarre disconnect between SC1 and SC2 on humanity's overall population. SC1 seemed to have humanity just barely scraping by population wise on a good day, and they are doing even better by SC2 despite only four or so years apparently passing since the end of Brood War.
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It also coincided with the Terrans losing most of their gritty twang. RIP space rednecks.

Kane Lives said:
You put more thought into the geopolitics of the setting in this post than the entirety of the writing team for the past two decades, IMO.
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I'm probably dumber for doing that than they are for not putting thought into it.

Kane Lives said:
The one thing that might explain the sudden resurgence of Terrans post Brood War is the assumption that the UED actually brought with them civilians to run things as well. Given that only the retreating fleet was annihilated, the remaining UED presence itself might have been absorbed into the new Terran Dominion.

But yeah, it's still exceptional even with that factored in.
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An interesting idea. Personally I always kinda head-canon'd it that Dugalle was sent away from the UED without any high hopes of success as some kind of political move. Maybe people back home were afraid of his success and charisma, so they send him off to claim the old colonies from the advanced alien menace. If he succeeds? Great, new colonies, and he's far away where he can't do much harm. Plus new bioweapon! If he (much more likely) fails? Good, he's dead and isn't going to kill our asses in a coup with his Russian buddy.

But that's probably over thinking it. The UED were originally intended to be a full on 4th race but Blizzard quickly realized it was prohibitively expensive. There's a bit of plot justification about why they're mostly using the same stuff as the other Terrans about how they couldn't actually send that many ships that far and so had to hijack stuff from the Dominion and then ally with a bunch of the little militias and Confederate remnants that were all over the place. But mostly it was for development reasons, not plot ones.
 
Your Weird Fetish said:
An interesting idea. Personally I always kinda head-canon'd it that Dugalle was sent away from the UED without any high hopes of success as some kind of political move. Maybe people back home were afraid of his success and charisma, so they send him off to claim the old colonies from the advanced alien menace. If he succeeds? Great, new colonies, and he's far away where he can't do much harm. Plus new bioweapon! If he (much more likely) fails? Good, he's dead and isn't going to kill our asses in a coup with his Russian buddy.

But that's probably over thinking it. The UED were originally intended to be a full on 4th race but Blizzard quickly realized it was prohibitively expensive. There's a bit of plot justification about why they're mostly using the same stuff as the other Terrans about how they couldn't actually send that many ships that far and so had to hijack stuff from the Dominion and then ally with a bunch of the little militias and Confederate remnants that were all over the place. But mostly it was for development reasons, not plot ones.
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Actually, there's a lot to support that. IIRC the fluff establishes that the UED fleet was headed up by DuGalle with the intent specifically of bringing the wayward colonies in the sector in line and get control of the ongoing Zerg issues in the region by subduing the overmind. The initial forces they sent were expeditionary, and the bulk of the UED's military hardware came from colonies that were pissed off with Mengsk and eager to see the guy burn for it.

After the UED failed, the government of Earth basically said "fuck it, it's not our problem, and we're not wasting resources on this, let them murder one another" and left the Koprulu sector to rot.
 
Book Thievery said:
Honestly, the thing I hated the most about Starcraft 2's plot was the shoe-horned romance between Jimmy and Kerrigan.

SC1: "It might not be tomorrow, darling, but I'm gonna be the man who will kill you one day."

SC2: "I wuv yuu, Kerrygan, please don't be Zerg no mores!"
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Made less plausible by the fact that infested Kerrigan is substantially sexier than normal Kerrigan.
 
robobobo said:
Maxine Virtue's linkedin page:


View attachment 1127905

"Senior Administrative Assistant"

So, a secretary. Gotcha. To replace someone who was instrumental to the original game. Seems legit!
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Just clicked that and I got this:

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It actually worked fine a minute ago, but I closed it and went back and got that message. So it just got DMCA'd just now. I didn't know that could happen on archive.today.

So then I jumped to Firefox to screenshot her whole profile, and now you have to log in to view it. I guess she's locking her shit down right now.

Fortunately, I still had it open in Brave, so I screenshotted it the old fashioned way:

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Clicking "See Project" under that vague "X-Men, April 2013" thing brings you to a video that's now private: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBCJlp9Yia8 (I didn't see what it was)
 

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So, I've never followed them too closely, but does it seem like Blizzard may actually go out of businesses over this, and their other recent massive fuck ups?
 
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