Vinesauce

[saisegeha]

Even Vinny seems to have gone through this, but in reverse - as time goes on, he seems to have gotten more and more depressed, and while his jokes have always been the self-deprecating kind, it feels barely comedic at this point. He's still funny, but his sense of humor has definitely taken a turn for the darker, to the point that it's just sad sometimes.

Vinny's always been quite sad. His mother died, he had to work a ton of shitty jobs, one girl broke his heart to a point he hasn't had a relationship since then (it's estimated to have happened around 9-10 years ago, he very, very, very, very, very briefly talked about it), and now the agepill is probably hitting him. Some of his friends are doctors, and one is a lawyer. I imagine he's feeling quite left out, being the 34 year old guy who's streaming video games while his friends are out there (with the expection of Mike, I guess) having a solid career and kids. Honestly, I love Vinny a lot. So I hope he'll eventually manage to go the Hootey route. Leave the dark stuff behind, wife some average but nice girl up, have a kid and balance streaming & family. Vinny doesn't strike me as someone who wants something like that, but I assume it would do him good.

That explains so much. I would get so confused during more recent streams when he would mention having gone to college, because I distinctly recalled him having worked some crap day job for a while (and this Drunk Dark Souls highlight from 2013 confirms it - around 0:40, he specifically states that he has work the next day, not school). It's also entirely possible that he did start taking individual classes, or maybe went to college online so as to not interfere with his streaming, but that would have come later on.

Joel's first job was a logistics one (he used it to save up money for his studio apartment which he still lives in and moved out in late 2013), then he had a mail delivery-ish job and that's pretty much it. Around summer 2014 his career was at a point where it's stable I assume, since that's when his work stories stopped and his streaming schedule became what it is today. I could be wrong, but I also believe he said he doesn't talk about his mother much because they're divorced and it's not a good feeling to talk about it (hence why he has to travel to the other side of Sweden once a year for Christmas to visit his mom).


Edit:

He also (just like Vinny) seems to be getting more serious about his music career these days, which seems to be working out great considering he has connections to certain (not mainstream, but popular) metal bands. I've listened to his Scythelord stuff and while his voice isn't anything impressive, he sure got talent when it comes to writing lyrics and composing.

Okay, okay. Last edit:
Is it funny to anyone else that Joel is a video game streamer? He doesn't give off the manchild-vibe they usually do and his bald head has grown on me. Gives me Pantera/Phil Anselmo vibes. Not surprised he's doing well.

 

[BroccoliBrain]

I always wonder how streamers like him and Vinny feel about it when their popularity grows - do you think they miss the old days, when they could actually connect with people in chat because of how few people there were, and when they could basically say whatever they wanted and get away with it every time? Or do you think they prefer it now, where there's distance between themselves and "Chat" (because now Chat is just an entity on its own, not really a mass of people), and they can't say as much crazy stuff, but they're reaching a much wider audience and making good money? It must be different for everyone, but I'm always curious about that.

Me too. They must have some kind of backup plan if they do this as their main ‘job’, I can’t deny streaming rakes it in but I don’t believe YouTube money and literal donations are a truly long term, stable source of income. There will be a time these guys don’t stream anymore, what then? You can’t exactly put that on your resume after 3+ years of technical unemployment. What if they wanted to quit after finally getting sick of it, if they’ve made enough to retire indefinitely then I guess they’ve made it.

 

[Most Dumbest Bitch]

one girl broke his heart to a point he hasn't had a relationship since then (it's estimated to have happened around 9-10 years ago, he very, very, very, very, very briefly talked about it)

This is talking about the affair that Vinny had with his best friend's girl like a decade ago, right? If so, that does seem to line up. It was discussed earlier in this thread, but a lot of people speculate that the "best friend" of note might be Jabroni Mike, since they've both alluded to there being some kind of bad blood in their past that they've since tried to move on from/avoid talking about. Not to conjecture too much, but a relationship like that does sound like something Vinny would get himself entangled in - something that was doomed from day one. Poor guy.

and now the agepill is probably hitting him.

Definitely. Watching 2010 Vinny and 2019 Vinny back to back is like fucking whiplash. Early Vinny had a cheeriness behind his Bitter New Yorker guise that Current Vinny has just lost completely, and while he does have his moments, most of the time he doesn't seem to have the energy to go beyond mild amusement. There was also this moment from his Mother 3 stream (spoilers), where his comment on this character being "just a fucking kid" suddenly made him seem so... old. It's usually easy to forget his age, but when he makes statements like that, it really does hit you that the college-age kid you started out watching a few years back is now a grown ass man approaching 40, and when it shows, it really shows. It probably hits him even harder.

I've listened to his Scythelord stuff and while his voice isn't anything impressive, he sure got talent when it comes to writing lyrics and composing.

I've noticed that with his Beef Zone streams, too. Like you said, his voice really isn't anything to write home about, but his ear for composition is actually astounding. Beef Zone 2 is unironically good, and I feel no shame in admitting that I listen to it semi-regularly.

They must have some kind of backup plan if they do this as their main ‘job’, I can’t deny streaming rakes it in but I don’t believe YouTube money and literal donations are a truly long term, stable source of income. There will be a time these guys don’t stream anymore, what then? You can’t exactly put that on your resume after 3+ years of technical unemployment. What if they wanted to quit after finally getting sick of it, if they’ve made enough to retire indefinitely then I guess they’ve made it.

I agree with everything except your comment about their "technical unemployment." They are self-employed entertainers with a traceable income thanks to the Twitch system, and enough video evidence of their work to back up the claim. They could absolutely put that on their resume, and it would probably be pretty compelling for the right employer. In fairness, you're right that they probably couldn't get a "normal" job with that, but more likely than not, that wouldn't be on the table for them, anyway. When they do stop streaming - whether because they get sick of it, or because streaming as a medium dies out - they'll either rock with their savings for a while, or become industry insiders and keep making money out of the public eye.

I'm not sure if the business is that lucrative for Vinny and Joel, though. It's enough to pay like a full time job, certainly, but these guys aren't at Ninja levels of income. My guess is that they regularly earn somewhere in the 60k-90k range; more than enough for them to live comfortably and with no financial concerns, but definitely not enough for them to retire indefinitely any time soon.

 

[saisegeha]

There will be a time these guys don’t stream anymore, what then? You can’t exactly put that on your resume after 3+ years of technical unemployment. What if they wanted to quit after finally getting sick of it, if they’ve made enough to retire indefinitely then I guess they’ve made it.

In fairness, you're right that they probably couldn't get a "normal" job with that, but more likely than not, that wouldn't be on the table for them, anyway.

Disclaimer: Could be pretty boring job talk to some, but may be interesting to imagine for Vinny & Joel if they decide to stop streaming.
(Because let's be honest here, nobody really cares about the other Vinesauce streamers other than maybe good ol' Hootey and our beloved failed artist, Rev).

You know, if they'd stop streaming, an actually financially better career would open up for them. I work in digital marketing myself and people like them are sought after like you wouldn't believe. There are 3 different main categories in digital marketing: SEO (pays 60K if you're lucky, even if you're a freelancer since most people will just get Indian/Pakistani/Vietnamese guys to do the job for cheap), SEM (can pay up to 250K/year if you're willing to work your ass off for 3 years and get a solid portfolio) and then finally, social content creation/traffic generation/charity marketing. Here the earning potential is pretty much unlimited and depends entirely on what you managed to do before you applied to us, this means you can earn millions over the next 5 years if you know how to generate 300-500K in donations or in legitimate subscribers.

Usually, when hiring someone for a job like that, we make sure their YouTube channel/Instagram/Twitter is stable. Sometimes we'll get people who want to work for us and then dig deeper and see 82-92% of their followers/subscribers are cheap bot traffic bought from some third world seller on BHW. If this isn't the case (like it would be with Vinny & Joel, I've checked), then they're pretty much hired already. From there on out, we'll get them in contact with clients who seek a certain number at the end of the week (very rare), month or year for their charity incentive / brand. If charity incentive, they'll usually be allowed to cut off 15-25% of the end sum that was donated (which usually won't get mentioned, so yes – when a charity says it raised 1 million, it more than likely raised about 1.2 million but leaves that detail out for obvious reasons). 15-20% of that money goes to them for their great work, 5-10% goes to us (which certainly is a nice amount for doing nothing other than getting our new guy in contact with the client, especially when he managed to bring in millions in donations).

If that's still not what they like to do, then they could become a strategic video marketing content manager (honestly we just call it the video marketing guy because fuck spelling that out every time). These guys are also paid on the amount of traffic/long-term subscribers and followers they manage to generate. Usually we'll give them a certain to do list that they'll have to get through by the end of the year. Usually looks like:

Get account X to 500.000 followers [ ]
Work closer with our finance team and increase profit of merch store X by 12% [ ]
etc, etc. When they manage to accomplish it, they won't just be paid their normal salary (salary can vary, I'm based in Europe, but if we hire an American for a remote position they'll usually be paid 5-10K more when they live in an expensive area) but also a % of the generated profit, which means (if they actually do what they promise) they have a chance to retire after about 7-10 years.

Now, you guys made a legit argument about unemployment. But really, in digital marketing that doesn't matter. Tai Lopez may be an extreme example, so I'll leave him out of that – but Alex Becker is a very controversial figure in our industry who still generates 4 to 8 million USD for himself per year. He keeps saying that he was at the air force, did that job, did this, but lol fuck all that. It's a lie, we've met the guy. Just a brilliant con-man with charisma and a few very suspicious software marketing agencies & get-rich-quick schemes under his belt.


TLDR; Joel and especially Vinny (with their experience and portfolio) could do very well in certain job fields, especially in today's digital age. Depending on how much effort they put into it, maybe even earn more money than they currently do.

 

[BroccoliBrain]

All of this I did not know, I didn't want to be too optimistic about the life of a streamer but at the same time I'm utterly illiterate about what actually happens behind the scenes (for very popular streamers anyway). I take it that your average wannabe who gets his friends and family to watch his streams still only dreams of these numbers. @saisegeha I never understood how you can buy bot traffic, as in, nonexistent people? Is it stolen horsepower, a bunch of shitty repurposed machines?

To keep this barely on topic, yeah, watching Joel somehow make music in a clunky children's mock DAW was really informative (I've said this before). He's got a lot going for him and I hope the success never becomes too much for him to handle. I'd describe some of his tendencies to be childlike, not childish, and that's the distinction that differentiates him from the manchildren who overreact to video games and get into e-celeb scandals for attention.

 

[saisegeha]

@BroccoliBrain
Bot traffic can be generated through various sources, the most widespread one being:
A script that's hosted on a VPS, changing proxies (usually a proxy list, but should have between 250.000 - 2.000.000 proxies minimum in case certain proxies are already blacklisted) every few seconds, thus giving YouTube the impression that an actual person clicked on the video (since each proxy uses a different IP address). For followers/subscribers it's basically the same, just that an account creation tool is hosted on Heroku (or again, a VPS). A list of not-used emails/usernames is supplied for automated account creation, it'll filter through it and then (if necessary, since most are just churn & burn) managed with Jarvee or other content management software. There are other ways to do it, but they're not quite... legal. So I won't get into those.


Back to topic; I doubt Joel's "success" will ever get to a point where he turns into one of these people with a huge ego. I recall him rejecting a record label deal with a Swedish publisher last year (has anyone found out who that publisher could have been?) so he seemingly wants to keep everything away from a mainstream audience. I think of him like the Mudhoney of the Grunge era. Pearl Jam, Nirvana are out there having fights with Alice in Chains & Soundgarden while Mudhoney likes to keep everything honest and underground, not caring much about the money and fame the other bands get. Just pure passion.

However, do you guys think they ever get self aware of their audience (in terms of their bands)? Without ridiculing anyone, but going through the #vinesauce hashtag on Twitter while Vinny was at a con felt like going through a digital freakshow. I understand their audience has changed, but Jesus... it's just people who put "your 21 year old non-binary gay girl (male) you will never be!" in their bio or incredible smelly and obese looking guys. I imagine Vinny realizes he's a bit too old to hit it big like Kurt Cobain did (since Kurt used to be his idol along with Bowie), but it must feel awkward when most of your listeners listen to you because of le funny memes or because they watch your Nintendo streams... quite frankly I suck at art, but when I decide to paint, I want people to criticize it/try to understand it rather than look at it for a few seconds and say they like it because I made it. I get the impression that Vinny's mentality is similar, he takes his band stuff serious (although it comes off more like a dad band project)... so I have no idea how he's handling it. Without knowing Vinny, I would have still considered Blood Bagel a good album though. Maybe it's because I like experimental stuff, but it had some solid creativity. With Joel it's the same. His instrumentals and ability to create melodies are legitimately impressive to a point where I believe he could have success as a producer or componist. He just got that natural feel for melodies, you know. The one that you can't study but are born with. It's rare, and I wish him nothing but the best (both of them).


Edit:
Here, have some ancient art Joel made when he was still Exh0rder.

 

[Most Dumbest Bitch]

I'd describe some of his tendencies to be childlike, not childish, and that's the distinction that differentiates him from the manchildren who overreact to video games and get into e-celeb scandals for attention.

Joel and Vinny have always kept a level of distance from streamers outside of the Vinesauce helm, and I think that really helped them avoid getting wrapped up in that kind of stuff. To my understanding, most of the Vinesauce streamers were friends first, and so when they started streaming as a "group," it went relatively smoothly. Of course, there were some issues (the usual stuff, stolen money and soliciting nudes from teenagers), but overall, they managed to remain pretty drama free. I didn't even find out about most of this shit until this year because of how good they were at keeping it all under wraps. Say what you will about Vinny, but that man knows how to do a good cover-up.

Anyway, now that Joel's in his mid-20s and Vinny is pushing 40, it's probably a safe bet that they're over that kind of shit and won't bother to start up drama for the Viewz. They are where they are as streamers, and that's it.

I imagine Vinny realizes he's a bit too old to hit it big like Kurt Cobain did (since Kurt used to be his idol along with Bowie), but it must feel awkward when most of your listeners listen to you because of le funny memes or because they watch your Nintendo streams

It must be a bittersweet feeling. He's relatively popular now - we could probably call him a D list celeb pushing into C tier - but its his prior fame that's driving people to his music, not the musicality of the songs themselves. I'll admit, I've only listened to one or two songs from Red Vox, but calling their music anything other than "passable" is just giving it way too much credit (although I haven't heard Blood Bagel, so you can have that one). He must realize, to a certain extent, that people aren't supporting his music because it really speaks to them, but because it's his music - and that probably fucks with him.

Here, have some ancient art Joel made when he was still Exh0rder.

God, I always forget about Joel's choice artwork. I busted out laughing a few times just looking at this; it reminds me of the dumb drawings I made of my own friends as a kid. I love that he drew himself looking like a 45 year old Viking, but in reality, he was probably in his mid-to-late teens.

That's one thing I think a lot of people forget, and it's pretty crazy to realize it, but Joel is a lot younger than Vinny and Rev - if I remember right, he's turning 26 sometime this year. I don't know very much about the others, but he might actually be the youngest member of Vinesauce, if not one of the youngest. When I first started watching Joel in 2011, I was always under the impression that he was some big adult man living his best life, but shit like this always reminds me that when I was a high schooler watching his earliest stuff, he was also in high school (or, at least, high school aged). Granted, when he would do shit like this, it didn't seem so far-fetched, but still.

 

[A Sign]

I've seen on the cancer that is 4chan (I assume they are pictures pulled from twitter) that pretty much every picture Vinny takes with fans he looks ether dead inside or screaming inside. And most of the girls that want him to smash them are "gai bois" who want him to "smash my boi pussi uwu" and any straight girls are the crazies who no man should stick his peen in cause everyone knows the rule "don't stick your dick in crazy"

I have heard some rumors going around Vinny was being stalked big time recently.

And Since Vin keeps the comments on in MM2 he recently had transflag spam which chat ate up like a fat kid at a buffet all while he ignored it. He'll probably shut it off as Joel has, soon (I hope). I wonder if Vinny and/or Joel go on MM2 before streaming to report those posts that show up on their levels?

 

[AbyssStarer]

I've seen on the cancer that is 4chan (I assume they are pictures pulled from twitter) that pretty much every picture Vinny takes with fans he looks ether dead inside or screaming inside. And most of the girls that want him to smash them are "gai bois" who want him to "smash my boi pussi uwu" and any straight girls are the crazies who no man should stick his peen in cause everyone knows the rule "don't stick your dick in crazy"

Vinny does look awkward in pictures, like, always. BUT he is a reasonably handsome guy, not fat, or greasy, that is to say, as weird as it is to admit, it's no surprise he has fangirls and I kind of get it. If he keeps aging without finding a chick it'll start getting weird fast.

Jabroni Mike has salami tits tho, would pass

 

[BroccoliBrain]

Maybe heart break pushed him into becoming a guitar wizard

 

[UntimelyDhelmise]

I remember a stream a year or two ago where Vinny actually spoke about his love life for once which he normally never does, might've been around Valentine's, which to add he always gets noticeably uncomfortable around that time. Anyway, he something along the lines of not interested in marrying someone, period.

Given how long ago that was and he's still clearly single, I'm willing to bet it was more to imply that he's avoiding getting into a relationship altogether. Regardless of rumors and he said she said business, whatever did happen in his unknown romantic past must've done an irreparable number on the poor guy...

 

[saisegeha]

Vinny does look awkward in pictures, like, always.

Honestly? He only looks awkward when he's meeting his fans, compare him doing what he enjoys

(young Vinny)

to when he's meeting his fans:

...our poor Vinny is just a failed rockstar. But it warms my heart when I see the joy he's experiencing when he gets to perform and is around socially competent people.

 

[Aquinas]

I wouldnt say he's a failed rockstar, he's just in a mike myers situation of where his main job can realistically support what he loves

 

[Most Dumbest Bitch]

I wouldnt say he's a failed rockstar, he's just in a mike myers situation of where his main job can realistically support what he loves

With the added drawback that he's always going to doubt the veracity of fans' interest in his music - part of him is always going to suspect that they don't care about the music itself, and only listen to it because it's him. He is very fortunate that his streaming career can support his main passion, but I'm sure it's bittersweet knowing he probably won't ever be able to do it full-time.

 

[saisegeha]

I wouldnt say he's a failed rockstar, he's just in a mike myers situation of where his main job can realistically support what he loves

Yeah, you're right. But judging by old performances of his, he would have been able to have close to mainstream success if he was born 10 years earlier and kept improving, which is a weird thing to say. His voice and persona would have been a perfect fit for the early grunge/nu-metal scene.

Davy's Grey - Now You're A Man (cover)

Our cover of DVDA's Now You're A Man from way back when men fought dinosaurs. Performance from the Muddy Cup when it was The Cup. Hell if I know what it's ca...

www.youtube.com

Also, never forget:

Up 2 Late - Catering Menu

When the show hits a low point, I erotically read bits from a local catering menu. problem solved. From Up 2 Late #4 - 2007.

www.youtube.com

 

[A Sign]

First I apologize for my...thirst here, but yes I agree he is very attractive and in pictures where he's doing what he loves he looks great, while in fan photos he looks awkward - dead inside but still attractive. It's very understandable why he won't facecam outside of the odd "Vdub" appearance due to thirsty fangirls and fantroons screaming DADDY uwu at him in chat.

In a nutshell yes I find him very attractive but I keep it to myself.

As for his music, I do like it not just cause it is him but I like "Dad rock" kind of music among other genes, and you can find in some if not most of his songs he'll say things that he could never get away with in streams, cause the lyrics would go over SJW fan's heads anyway, with how its worded.

 

[saisegeha]

First I apologize for my...thirst here, but yes I agree he is very attractive and in pictures where he's doing what he loves he looks great, while in fan photos he looks awkward - dead inside but still attractive. It's very understandable why he won't facecam outside of the odd "Vdub" appearance due to thirsty fangirls and fantroons screaming DADDY uwu at him in chat.

In a nutshell yes I find him very attractive but I keep it to myself.

As for his music, I do like it not just cause it is him but I like "Dad rock" kind of music among other genes, and you can find in some if not most of his songs he'll say things that he could never get away with in streams, cause the lyrics would go over SJW fan's heads anyway, with how its worded.

We've all been there in some kind of way, Vinny got an incredible high trust face. So if you're not attracted to him (no homo), he's the kinda guy you'd just love to hang out with.

Vinny's guitar solo

From Red Vox's performance of Job In The City at the TooManyGames concert.

www.youtube.com

It's also kinda surreal to see him perform nowadays.

 

[vertexwindi]

We've all been there in some kind of way, Vinny got an incredible high trust face.

Wait, that's an actual thing?

 

[saisegeha]

Wait, that's an actual thing?

Yes.

 

[Most Dumbest Bitch]

First I apologize for my...thirst here, but yes I agree he is very attractive and in pictures where he's doing what he loves he looks great, while in fan photos he looks awkward - dead inside but still attractive.

If we're gonna go down this road, I think it needs to be stated that 2014-2016 Vinny was peak attractiveness. Vinny's pre-2014 hairstyle (the fucking Tim Buckley cut) and lack of a beard really did not do him any favors, and nowadays I think he just looks tired.

But judging by old performances of his, he would have been able to have close to mainstream success if he was born 10 years earlier and kept improving, which is a weird thing to say. His voice and persona would have been a perfect fit for the early grunge/nu-metal scene.

I don't think it's weird - he honestly has the perfect face and voice for grunge. On top of that - and correct me if I'm wrong - but I believe Kurt Cobain is one of his main inspirations, so grunge is probably the best way to describe him anyway. His voice definitely doesn't fit the kind of stuff I've heard him singing, in my opinion; it's a little too rough. I'd definitely prefer hearing more grunge-type stuff from Vinny - having him pull out a Black Hole Sun would be pretty astounding.