Victoria 3 Confirmed - It already sucks

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Imperial Citizen said:
What will be interesting about Communism in Vicky 3 will be the fact that it will most likely arise in the countries it was predicted to arise in. I wouldn't doubt that there will be an achievement to have a communist revolution occur in an agrarian country because Paradox will base the rise of Communism under its theoretical conditions. Which demonstrates why Communism will act as it does in Vicky 3; concepts like Marxism-Leninism, the Vanguard Party, and 5 year industrialization plans didn't exist yet. While we can come to the conclusion that Communism would end up being an authoritarian system, that comes from the 20th century example of Communism. The 19th century Communist examples we have are smaller and on a local level, we don't have 19th century Communist state to use.

What I could see Vicky 3's Communism being is an immediate short term boost to trade unions, peasantry, and intelligentsia groups as well as working class pops, with the upper class pops, religious, and bourgeoisies groups suffering. You get more control over your country's development, but at the cost of locking yourself out of international markets outside of fellow Communist and even Anarchist countries. You can help create more Communist countries if you support more Internationalist policies, however, it will turn the major powers hostile to you. Which will force Communist countries to forgo lower class prosperity towards increased military buildup. Going along a more insular path will have countries deal with domestic power-sharing issues and those groups that do not have enough power will have the opportunity to rebel.

The theme of Vicky 3 has been shown to be positive, that humanity is growing. Though since this game goes until 1936, a WW1 event should shatter that positivity. Communism should reflect that. A utopian political ideology promising a classless, stateless, humane society becomes a rigid, territorial, oppressive society as this radical ideology requires more production and control over what is produced to keep it alive.
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It seems like the mana system theyre using in vicky3 will be “bureaucracy points” or something to that effect. I suppose a possible communist system would cost a dramatic amount of bureaucracy mana, and not meeting a certain amount of bureaucracy points results in corruption. This could simulate the Soviet Union’s mismanagement. The problem is that a lot of the Soviet Union’s/Communist issues are minute and nuanced and can’t be adequately simulated in a paradox game.

Naturally this wouldn’t be much of an issue if the game embraced it’s role as an ammoral exploitation game, but I things are too sensitive to do that.

Again, this reinforces my fear that Communism will be treated as some linear and ideal end goal for your state to achieve, where purchasing power is divided equally among your subsidized pops resulting in ideal goods consumption/production.

It’s likely that all their historical advisors are Swedish revisionist Marxists as well, so have fun with that.
 
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Ughubughughughughughghlug said:
In Vicky II Southern Democrats were State Capitalist and Republicans were Laissez-Faire because Liberals are laissez-faire and Reactionaries are interventionist, amirite?
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That was one of the laziest things about Vicky 2, they tried to fit all groups like that into neat little categories, and especially in the case of Southern Democrats - in that period, far more laissez-faire than Republicans - it was laughably false. I agree with others who think Vicky 2 leaned too much on a Whig/Fukuyama theory of the inevitability of social democracy, and breaking that is a good idea.

Not DLC, but I'm really hoping people make alternative start date mods like 1821. Concert of Europe for PDM is so much better than an 1836 start, it's a way more interesting scenario to watch the Spanish Empire collapse.
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Strong agree with this too. The 1836 start date was a strange choice, only because EUIII went over 1815 in case of a drawn out Napoleonic War, but there was no reason to not start it at the historical Concert of Europe. You also miss out on important events like the 1830 Revolution in France, which is already a more liberal monarchy at the start of Vicky 2.

However, I have no confidence that Paradox will get this right. The consensus seems to be that CK2 was the last good Paradox game, but I believe it was actually that title that ruined the company. It marked the beginning of their DLC whoring, and they are now some of the worst abusers of it. Like HOI4, Vicky 3 will probably end having a toxic modding community full of troons and drama.
 
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Video that goes over concerns with Vicky3's UI, in particular the alert system.
TL;DW
While the UI is subject to change, it's a worrying sign that the game will pursue the same cumbersome design philosophy as CK3 which dramatically prioritizes needs of new, more casual player, over longtime enthusiasts. Indicating, at least to me, that despite all the promises of new complex features, it'll prioritize casual play.

full image for reference
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BootlegPopeye said:
That was one of the laziest things about Vicky 2, they tried to fit all groups like that into neat little categories, and especially in the case of Southern Democrats - in that period, far more laissez-faire than Republicans - it was laughably false. I agree with others who think Vicky 2 leaned too much on a Whig/Fukuyama theory of the inevitability of social democracy, and breaking that is a good idea.



Strong agree with this too. The 1836 start date was a strange choice, only because EUIII went over 1815 in case of a drawn out Napoleonic War, but there was no reason to not start it at the historical Concert of Europe. You also miss out on important events like the 1830 Revolution in France, which is already a more liberal monarchy at the start of Vicky 2.

However, I have no confidence that Paradox will get this right. The consensus seems to be that CK2 was the last good Paradox game, but I believe it was actually that title that ruined the company. It marked the beginning of their DLC whoring, and they are now some of the worst abusers of it. Like HOI4, Vicky 3 will probably end having a toxic modding community full of troons and drama.
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I mean it's been established that troons and their orbiters have a tendency to ruin everything they touch because they generally can't stay out of drama. It was exposed in full force with the TNO drama specifically.
 
BootlegPopeye said:
That was one of the laziest things about Vicky 2, they tried to fit all groups like that into neat little categories, and especially in the case of Southern Democrats - in that period, far more laissez-faire than Republicans - it was laughably false. I agree with others who think Vicky 2 leaned too much on a Whig/Fukuyama theory of the inevitability of social democracy, and breaking that is a good idea.
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Vicky3 needs to find a way to make reforms a challenge and have an actual cost. Making universal healthcare prohibitively expensive is just not a message I see them wanting to send.

Them representing historical population declines also just ain't happening.
 
vulgar said:
playing as a "decentralized nation" sounds like such a colossal waste of time, you'd probably get more out of a suicide sim.

>Hunt tonkas for a decade
>Yankee gives me beads and tells me to sign paper
>Game Over.
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Imagine playing an Aboriginal "decentralized nation" where you don't even sign treaties, you just get your teeth kicked in by the white man after endless clicking of "hunt kangaroo." Maybe you can click "hunt white man's cows" when whitey shows up which makes whitey gather up a posse and shoot up your village or poison all the food as an instant "lose" button.
Slap47 said:
Paradox has actually been cracking down on mods. Stellaris mods that make humanity just white people, genocide mods for HoI, Legend of the Galactic Hero mods, the Putin mod for accurately representing ISIS, etc.
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Dare I ask why they banned LOGH mods? Because the Empire is a bunch of Prussia LARPers who have a fondness for eugenics and absolutism that often (but not always) beats the corrupt and very diverse Alliance? Literally anything remotely objectionable in LOGH is found in Stellaris or other Paradox games.
Slap47 said:
Vicky3 needs to find a way to make reforms a challenge and have an actual cost. Making universal healthcare prohibitively expensive is just not a message I see them wanting to send.
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Which is bad gameplay for a game like this. Having universal healthcare (while balancing other parts of government spending) should be a challenge with good rewards (Vic2 had a population growth bonus because people get medical conditions treated earlier since now it's "free").
 
Save the Loli said:
Imagine playing an Aboriginal "decentralized nation" where you don't even sign treaties, you just get your teeth kicked in by the white man after endless clicking of "hunt kangaroo." Maybe you can click "hunt white man's cows" when whitey shows up which makes whitey gather up a posse and shoot up your village or poison all the food as an instant "lose" button.

Dare I ask why they banned LOGH mods? Because the Empire is a bunch of Prussia LARPers who have a fondness for eugenics and absolutism that often (but not always) beats the corrupt and very diverse Alliance? Literally anything remotely objectionable in LOGH is found in Stellaris or other Paradox games.

Which is bad gameplay for a game like this. Having universal healthcare (while balancing other parts of government spending) should be a challenge with good rewards (Vic2 had a population growth bonus because people get medical conditions treated earlier since now it's "free").
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Every policy should have tradeoffs of some sort, some policies should be budget efficient at the cost of something else. Every policy in the real world has trade-offs.
 
Slap47 said:
Paradox has actually been cracking down on mods. Stellaris mods that make humanity just white people, genocide mods for HoI, Legend of the Galactic Hero mods, the Putin mod for accurately representing ISIS, etc.
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Is their mod shit proprietary now?
 
vulgar said:
It seems like the mana system theyre using in vicky3 will be “bureaucracy points” or something to that effect. I suppose a possible communist system would cost a dramatic amount of bureaucracy mana, and not meeting a certain amount of bureaucracy points results in corruption. This could simulate the Soviet Union’s mismanagement. The problem is that a lot of the Soviet Union’s/Communist issues are minute and nuanced and can’t be adequately simulated in a paradox game.

Naturally this wouldn’t be much of an issue if the game embraced it’s role as an ammoral exploitation game, but I things are too sensitive to do that.

Again, this reinforces my fear that Communism will be treated as some linear and ideal end goal for your state to achieve, where purchasing power is divided equally among your subsidized pops resulting in ideal goods consumption/production.

It’s likely that all their historical advisors are Swedish revisionist Marxists as well, so have fun with that.
Click to expand...
Well isn't that literally what Communists think Communism is? An end state to human civilization? However, I don't think that it will be the ideal goal but again, merely a pathway you can take your country. And since the game ends in 1936, that puts it historically with Stalin's reign of terror over the Soviet Union, so they will probably incorporate the historical implications of the Soviet Union into the game when dealing with a Communist uprising.

I don't see Paradox shying away from the negatives of history. They didn't touch on the Holocaust in HOI4, most likely because how the fuck do you incorporate the Holocaust into gameplay, but it does not seem like they are shying away from the horrors of the Victorian Age. But I think we need to see more of the economics system in the game to just know what is going to happen.
 
Is there any place you get Paradox 'banned' mods?
 
Lieutenant Rasczak said:
Every policy should have tradeoffs of some sort, some policies should be budget efficient at the cost of something else. Every policy in the real world has trade-offs.
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Vic2 had that, kinda. More democratic societies couldn't suppress movements as effectively, and some of these you might not want (i.e. you didn't want the people voting so they didn't vote in a party you didn't want). A lot of the social reforms would increase your government spending, but taxes and tariffs were easy to raise no matter your government and other spending like military spending makes up only a fraction of your spending anyway. Eventually you could have fairly low taxes while still having universal health care and large public funding of the arts. It was too easy to get a huge amount of money while running all social reforms.
Imperial Citizen said:
Well isn't that literally what Communists think Communism is? An end state to human civilization? However, I don't think that it will be the ideal goal but again, merely a pathway you can take your country. And since the game ends in 1936, that puts it historically with Stalin's reign of terror over the Soviet Union, so they will probably incorporate the historical implications of the Soviet Union into the game when dealing with a Communist uprising.
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I wouldn't mind a game where you could make true and honest communism, the real communism that works and has never been tried. But I'd expect it to be insanely difficult and full of all sorts of pitfalls on the way to it where you almost inevitably end up with either your communism overthrown (because you devolved into a bunch of anarchist nonsense and people used the chaos to recreate capitalism) or you end up a totalitarian state like most communist states did. I could see a third option too where you just end up a really radical, not-really totalitarian social democracy but still too capitalist for real communism because your workers/voters won't vote in the real commies (probably what a communist Britain or France in the early 20th century would've been--after obligatory Red Terror--since they didn't have the Tsarist/Imperial China tradition of authoritarian oppression rule).

But this is nu-Paradox, so expect zero nuance like that and "real communism" ends up being easy to create assuming you have enough mana and win a civil war or whatever.
 
I never felt like elections were very realistic in Vicky2; there were hardly any swing voters, a phenomenon that already existed in the 19th century. So elections hardly ever had major swings unless you had a near social revolution domestically.

As far as playing as the US goes, I really hope that go for that early 1815 start date we have suggested. One event that happened that crippled anti-slavery sentiment in the South in that period was the Nat Turner rebellion, maybe if you hit the right reforms it and sectionalism is less pronounced (the 1836 start date avoids other key events that eventually fueled it such as the Nullification Crisis), and if done right the civil war never happens.

I think of all my playthroughs, I was able to avoid the civil war once. I cannot remember what it was I did.
 
hello gamers

Paradox just released a PDF outlining the economic mechanics of the game, naturally this is subject to change but is nonetheless what they have fundamentally planned.
https://forumcontent.paradoxplaza.com/public/710077/Victoria 3 - Vickynomics.pdf

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-pops will have dynamic incomes, they will use this income to access market goods which, in turn, determines their status of living. Capitalists will determine the wages of their workers, they will do all they can to maximize their profits, with significantly improved AI that doesn't behave like Vicky2's brain dead capitalists. ​
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-goods are accessed through the "market," markets are your economic sphere through which goods are produced, sold, and consumed. Every major state has their own market, goods may be sold and bought from one market to another, pops will not have access to other markets. You can influence other nations with your "market" similar to "spheres of influence." ​
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-goods are now tangible, they must be extracted and transported along trade routes which require locomotives/ships. infrastructure dramatically influences market access.. Geographically isolated areas will therefore remain unexploited until the late game when technology allows sustainable access. ​
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-there are different economic systems for your country to follow, some are objectively better, but they all come with their own benefits​
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all in all, looks like a more logical/clear revamp of Vicky2's economy, plus extra features to make economic management more dynamic/deep. It seems like there's a lot more ability to influence the global market, and that the game's capitalists will behave ruthlessly and efficiently unlike the brain dead retards in the previous game.

I suppose, capitalist/imperial states would have superior market access and goods production, however would suffer from inequality and obtuse luxury spending. However a communist state would have reasonable spending/resource management, but have significantly inferior market access resulting in a equal but poor standard of living.

Naturally, it seems like the game would reward democratic socialist/liberal socialist states the most, similar to Vicky2.

someone has to be exploited

:cunningpepe:
 
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I do like that they promise not just map painting being the only fun thing in the game. Of course this could also be because "war is bad let's celebrate diversity instead" or some shit. Am I being too optimistic?
 
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