Victoria 3 Confirmed - It already sucks

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Gone Ham said:
Ok, so the Civ vs Unciv removal isn't confirmed, and looks to be a rumor, but it's well within reason for pdx to do it
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lol "unrecognized nation"
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Gone Ham said:
Guess I was wrong lol
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The name's silly, but the concept is not a bad idea, Colonization sounds like it'll be a lot more dynamic and require more effort.

Paradox usually gives their games some tongue in cheek humour, such as calling every non industrialized state "uncivilized," but it feels like this will be a humorless game.
 
People have already gone back to dicksucking Paradox, even after the Leviathan disaster. All it took was announcing one game.

Gone Ham said:
Reddit thread of what is known so far
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If you have a system like worker-owned factories, you can get to a point where even the lower strata POPs in your country are richer by the late game than the capitalists were at the beginning.
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lmao
No more "uncivilized" nations. Instead there are "Unrecognized" nations, which basically means they weren't seen as equals by the Great Powers at the time. They do NOT get any arbitrary debuffs to technology or combat just for having the "unrecognized" flag. They play by the same rules as everyone else for the most part. They will start out technologically behind in many cases, based on historical circumstances, and the social and economic conditions they have to deal with will generally make it harder to become an advanced, industrialized, technologically competitive nation. But that's all tied to the laws, POPs, Interest Groups, resources, and starting infrastructure, not their Unrecognized status.
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So yes, uncivilized is changed, but it sounds like the mechanic is still in? Apparently recognized nations can colonize unrecognized nations and it's considered less threatening than colonizing recognized nations.

Also, the reddit post is full of commies.
 
Fuck Paradox, fuck their DLCs and fuck their SJW politics. I won't be buying another of their games ever. Maybe I will pirate it, but even that feels dirty with how they have ruined so many games that I used to enjoy with their money grubbing shit.
 
HeyYou said:
So yes, uncivilized is changed, but it sounds like the mechanic is still in? Apparently recognized nations can colonize unrecognized nations and it's considered less threatening than colonizing recognized nations.
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so if I understand this right there are Great Powers, Recognized, Unrecognized, and Decentralized states

Great Powers = Great Powers, similar to VickyII. Also, "Spheres of Influence" are renamed to "Markets."
I.E: UK, France, Russia, etc.

Recognized = Secondary/Western states, industrialized and will have some diplomatic influence.
I.E: Sardinia-Piedmont, Denmark, Mexico, etc.

Unrecognized = Non-Western states (previously "uncivilized") there won't be any de-buffs applied to them due to their status or any set path towards "westernization." Unrecognized states can upgrade themselves into Recognized/Great Power states through industrialization/prestige (Japan post Russo-Japanese war for example.)
They also have significantly less clout than Recognized states and have less diplomatic maneuverability/access to market goods.
I.E. Zulu Empire, Qing Empire, Mughals, etc.

Decentralized= previously "uncolonized," the white parts of the map in VickyII. Colonization isn't laying down a simple claim to a blank part of the map, they will have some form of agency (apparently).
I.E. American Tribes, Patagonian Tribes, Congolese Tribes, etc.

So to answer your question, colonizing unorganized land, the Transvaal for instance, would be less threatening than conquering the Zulu Empire (unrecognized). However if the Zulus industrialize and beat the British in war, they could potentially become "recognized."

A lot of these changes seem appropriate, making a state's status purely a diplomatic/prestige thing rather than it having an actual effect on the management of the state.
 
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I like the mechanics I am reading over on the Reddit page. I never played Vicky 2, but I find a lot of what I am reading about Vicky 3 interesting. The managing of various political factions, the discrimination system, player interaction with the country's economy being a mirror to a command economy. It sounds like a sandbox strategy game of the 1800s with plenty of opportunity to go wild with history.

And for Paradox, there is a lot DLC to put out. My guess is that there will at least be a WW1, American Civil War, Latin American Civil Wars, Meiji Restoration, Nationalism, and Colonization themed DLCs.

Though I hope the base game lets me play as the Taipeng Heavenly Kingdom. I'm going to take over the fucking world as a nation led by a failed bureaucrat who believed that he was the younger brother of Jesus Christ!
 
I loved the flat, 19th century cartography look Vic2 was rendered in. It was such a fitting style for the time period the game covered. Makes my heart sink to see it apparently abandoned.
 
Slap47 said:
One thing that has really pissed me off about new paradox games is the ease of conversion to other cultures. No! The whole point of empires is that they're diverse and there has to be a huge effort to keep them together.

Even ck2 is a bit too easy in this regard.
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as silly as it seems that’s why things like the “racism score” that they’re going to implement is a good thing, seeing China Westernize and the New World get flooded with millions of Chinese immigrants (who would become “American” within a generation) was bit of a game ruiner.

it would be a lot more interesting and dynamic having a sizeable and possibly disgruntled Chinese minority along the West coast.
 
Slap47 said:
One thing that has really pissed me off about new paradox games is the ease of conversion to other cultures. No! The whole point of empires is that they're diverse and there has to be a huge effort to keep them together.

Even ck2 is a bit too easy in this regard.
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The Chinese empire culturally converted large parts of China to Han Culture
 
Madre Muerte said:
The Chinese empire culturally converted large parts of China to Han Culture
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Han culture is an amalgamation of numerous different identities that was specifically constructed to distinguish age-old groups from newer groups like the Mongols and Turks.

It took literally several thousand years to construct that identity. This process included actual colonization, forced resettlement and genocide.
 
I know that stratgey games are supposed to be deep and tactical and all that shit dont get me wrong. I really love stuff like the dune RTS games and xcom. But paradox interactive games always seem like a way for r/politicalcompassmemes users to self insert themselves into history and live out a fantasy of how they wish history unfolded, especially with commies playing russia. The game itself is just a spreadsheet simulator that doesn't even accurately represent how the economy works.
 
vulgar said:
so if I understand this right there are Great Powers, Recognized, Unrecognized, and Decentralized states

Great Powers = Great Powers, similar to VickyII. Also, "Spheres of Influence" are renamed to "Markets."
I.E: UK, France, Russia, etc.

Recognized = Secondary/Western states, industrialized and will have some diplomatic influence.
I.E: Sardinia-Piedmont, Denmark, Mexico, etc.

Unrecognized = Non-Western states (previously "uncivilized") there won't be any de-buffs applied to them due to their status or any set path towards "westernization." Unrecognized states can upgrade themselves into Recognized/Great Power states through industrialization/prestige (Japan post Russo-Japanese war for example.)
They also have significantly less clout than Recognized states and have less diplomatic maneuverability/access to market goods.
I.E. Zulu Empire, Qing Empire, Mughals, etc.

Decentralized= previously "uncolonized," the white parts of the map in VickyII. Colonization isn't laying down a simple claim to a blank part of the map, they will have some form of agency (apparently).
I.E. American Tribes, Patagonian Tribes, Congolese Tribes, etc.

So to answer your question, colonizing unorganized land, the Transvaal for instance, would be less threatening than conquering the Zulu Empire (unrecognized). However if the Zulus industrialize and beat the British in war, they could potentially become "recognized."

A lot of these changes seem appropriate, making a state's status purely a diplomatic/prestige thing rather than it having an actual effect on the management of the state.
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Lol, “markets”
Why do this at all if you aren’t going to actually use terms and thinking from the time? What, is “the Great Game” too confrontational? Are “Dreadnaughts” too scary sounding?

This is the Century of Humiliation for me, and Paradox thinks WHITEWASHING IT will erase that stain somehow? Fuck you.
 
Ehh, some of the changes in the Reddit thread sound okay. Treaty ports is a great idea and the below sounds great (well, except for them building in the DLC from the start, fucking Paradox):

Well over 100 playable countries, but not all countries are playable. Most of Africa, parts of inner South America, and a few surviving native tribes in North America (including the Lakota, Dakota, and Cree) were not playable. These are "Decentralized Countries." Post-launch, they want to make them playable eventually. But they want to do them right because the gameplay experience should be significantly different. All the Decentralized Countries have names and governments. There are no "uncolonized" provinces, but you can colonize on top of a Decentralized Country without declaring war.
 
gangweedfan said:
But paradox interactive games always seem like a way for r/politicalcompassmemes users to self insert themselves into history and live out a fantasy of how they wish history unfolded, especially with commies playing russia.
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This is pretty much exactly why the HoI4/TNO community is such a trash fire.
 
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